Hi

[GBalkam]

yeah agreed, but it's like it's either used within the parameters of cdr or it's not...

If it's not, it automatically becomes built to within pulse specs.

And if you work with pulse specs that's when all of these on/off firing variables come into play.

I agree partly with you though and why would you advise a total newb to practice this way?

First of all, I think you need to learn how to read. Obviously there are a lot of words you don't know and are just skipping them.
The word "reasonably" for example, means within acceptable or established limitations.
Building between 0.50 and 0.15 ohms on a single cell is within an established, reasonably safe perimeter.
You notice, at no point have I said It is SAFE to fire a 20A CDR battery at 18A because it is below the CDR. Because it is NOT "Safe". Reasonably safe, yes. Exactly the same as I have said, it is reasonably safe to fire a 20A battery at 22A. It isn't going to vent and it isn't going to explode. It will cause more damage to the cell, so you have to replace it sooner, but even at 20A it still damages the cell and you still have to replace the battery at some point.

Also, a "TOTAL NOOB" should not even be using a mech mod. So if you can't convince them not to use one, the next best thing is to suggest reasonably safe limits. 0.5 to 0.2 is a reasonably safe limit, with an absolute low of 0.15 as the bottom cap of what is considered "reasonably safe".

Now if someone is determined to ignore that, and are determined that they are going to build at 0.10 ohms, short of finding out where they live and breaking their arms, you can't stop them, all you can do is point them at proper information they can use to hopefully learn from. Otherwise, you get some ying-yang thinking OH 0.10 ohms was ok, lets try 0.09. OH that was ok, lets try 0.08. OH nothing bad happened, lets try 0.03 because I am to lazy to go 07,06,05,04... and PHSSTTTTT... BOOM. (vents and explodes)

 

[Zutankhamun]

Lol, Good one.
If you meet a total noob, advise them to build at 0.15

I know i have taken what you said out of context but can you see how somebody even more inexperienced than you or I can take what you say and apply that nonsense in a manner which results in
'PHSSTTTTT...BOOM'

Again 'lol'

 

[Eskie]

@GBalkam , one comment, the temperatures Mooch reports are C not F, so not exceeding 100F is 100C, which is considerably higher than a person might expect when they touch the battery.

 

[GBalkam]

@GBalkam , one comment, the temperatures Mooch reports are C not F, so not exceeding 100F is 100C, which is considerably higher than a person might expect when they touch the battery.

right. I got my metric crossed while translating to imperial. 100C = 212F

 

[GBalkam]

Lol, Good one.
If you meet a total noob, advise them to build at 0.15

I know i have taken what you said out of context but can you see how somebody even more inexperienced than you or I can take what you say and apply that nonsense in a manner which results in
'PHSSTTTTT...BOOM'

Again 'lol'

I don't advise anyone to build at anything. I suggest builds with reasonable parameters. IF you build at 0.15 ohm and it goes boom, it isn't because of the build, it is because you are using cheap batteries, probably made for a 0.30 volt flashlight or used a tank with a to short positive pin on a hybrid with a cheap battery, or a cheap battery with a tear in the wrapper.
As far as going BOOM goes, it doesn't matter if you build at .15 or .3 or .50 a bad build will go boom on a cheap battery and vent on a proper one. Which is why I only recommend good name brand batteries. Either that, or you are sitting there holding down the fire button for an extended period, watching the coil glow, like a moth beating itself to death against a light bulb. But then, that isn't the proper, intended use of a mech. I don't see any posts anywhere stating it is ok to use your vape like a flashlight.

 

[Zutankhamun]

Your a funny man.
Dangerous.
But funny

even at 22A it is still well within the tolerances of that battery. Basically, the battery would heat up slightly faster than it would at 20A. I wouldn't suggest holding the fire button down for 30 minutes, but under 5 to 10 seconds wouldn't make a significant change in temperature of the cell. Now I can't tell you what to build at, but 22A draw is well within the limits of that cell.

we don't need to get into an arguement over linguistics, syntax & semantics however, you should understand that not everybody's syllogism is as well versed as others.
That piece of info can be easily misconstrued as advice.

That coupled with a small mistake can lead down a slippery slope. Perhaps the new guy was looking for some helpful tips.
Maybe his equipment isn't as adept as your own.
Or, he/she isn't as proficient as yourself.

Your advice/tip/suggestions (whatever you want to name them) do not leave much room for error.

 

[GBalkam]

Your a funny man.
Dangerous.
But funny



we don't need to get into an arguement over linguistics, syntax & semantics however, you should understand that not everybody's syllogism is as well versed as others.
That piece of info can be easily misconstrued as advice.

That coupled with a small mistake can lead down a slippery slope. Perhaps the new guy was looking for some helpful tips.
Maybe his equipment isn't as adept as your own.
Or, he/she isn't as proficient as yourself.

Your advice/tip/suggestions (whatever you want to name them) do not leave much room for error.

Continuous Current Test Results...
Samsung Green 25R (25R5) 20A 2500mAh 18650 Bench Retest Results...a great 20A battery
and as I stated.. 22A- well within acceptable operating limits.

 

[niczgreat]

Mechanicals have a place but it's only with experts.

Nowadays there is nothing you can do on a mechanical that you can't do on a regulated mod.

 

[GBalkam]

Mechanicals have a place but it's only with experts.

Nowadays there is nothing you can do on a mechanical that you can't do on a regulated mod.

Got to agree with you there. I prefer to just use my regulated at home, and usually only use my mech for.. well stuff I shouldn't mention here. LOL. (not "the other stuff")

 

[Eskie]

Mechanicals have a place but it's only with experts.

Nowadays there is nothing you can do on a mechanical that you can't do on a regulated mod.

I agree with one clarification. For an experienced user, a mech offers simplicity. Not much there to fail if you built it right and followed all the safety steps. However, for me, the simplicity is not enough to draw me over to use of a mech (unless all my regulated mods died), but I understand why some might.

Even for an experienced/expert/advanced vaper, know your build, know your battery, and double check your math.

 

[niczgreat]

Two days ago the perfect example of the utility of a regulated device was demonstrated to me.

My gear is the Reuleax RX 200 and a Smok TFV8. I highly recommend this combo if you don't mind carrying around a little bulk. I highly recommend it if you are going to vape Sub Ohm above 100 Watts. Reason being is that it has 3 Batteries. Because it has 3 batteries the Amps that are drawn is lowered by an extra 3rd and your battery life is increased by at least a 3rd. So it's less stress on Batteries and probably safer. It also has all the circuit voltage heat protections.

I had been using the Stock Coil Heads for awhile and decided to use the RBA Deck Precoiled that came with the Tank. Wicked it up and was a great vape. Around 2 days later the Mod stopped firing, was showing Atomizer Short.

I opened her up and checked, the dual claptons were definitely not touching the bottom so it had to be touching the metal cover. I bent the coils upwards so they'd be closer to the Posts. This worked and it's been firing great since then.

The point it illustrates is that you can do everything right, but Coils can shift and cause a short. A regulated Mod detects this, and stops you in your tracks before " bad things happen".

Another scenario is let's say by accident you forget to lock it and it goes off in your pocket, handbag etc.. the heat or time limit protections will stop it from overheating and possible other very bad things happen.

A newbie probably shouldn't even get involved with the RBA Deck, I've never had a short with the Premade Coil heads. They are rock solid.

 

[Eskie]

Yup, all those warnings Atomizer Short, Ohms too Low, Temp too High, No Atomizer all help protect the user. So long as the board itself is working. And boards do fail. 10 second automatic cutoffs fail (not terrific if it's in your pocket and you forgot to lock it). Resistance gets misread. Although extremely rare, failures that result in "thermal runaway" have occurred. All of which is a solid reason for still paying attention to stuff like "are my mod's batteries capable of providing enough current for xxxW without getting too hot?", knowing how to charge batteries properly, and all the other assorted and sundry problems that can, and will, go wrong is still needed.

You knew how to troubleshoot your problem because of your experience. Not everyone does, especially new users, but honestly, even experienced users can find themselves short of a needed piece of information at a critical time. Yes, regulated mods are inherently safer than a mech but they are not necessarily safe. They can be misused, abused, and suffer from quality control problems in manufacture. No matter what you use, take a few minutes to learn about what you're doing before pulling out a 4 battery 400W Smok Engine (OK, still on preorder) running the power up to 400, turning to your friends and saying "watch this!!". And we all know this is going to happen. It's the "don't push the red button under any circumstances" rule of the universe.

 

[Zutankhamun]

Yup, all those warnings Atomizer Short, Ohms too Low, Temp too High, No Atomizer all help protect the user. So long as the board itself is working. And boards do fail. 10 second automatic cutoffs fail (not terrific if it's in your pocket and you forgot to lock it). Resistance gets misread. Although extremely rare, failures that result in "thermal runaway" have occurred. All of which is a solid reason for still paying attention to stuff like "are my mod's batteries capable of providing enough current for xxxW without getting too hot?", knowing how to charge batteries properly, and all the other assorted and sundry problems that can, and will, go wrong is still needed.

You knew how to troubleshoot your problem because of your experience. Not everyone does, especially new users, but honestly, even experienced users can find themselves short of a needed piece of information at a critical time. Yes, regulated mods are inherently safer than a mech but they are not necessarily safe. They can be misused, abused, and suffer from quality control problems in manufacture. No matter what you use, take a few minutes to learn about what you're doing before pulling out a 4 battery 400W Smok Engine (OK, still on preorder) running the power up to 400, turning to your friends and saying "watch this!!". And we all know this is going to happen. It's the "don't push the red button under any circumstances" rule of the universe.

Totally agree Eskie.
I personally use a mech most of the time and am far from an expert. I am careful though and I only build at 1.2 and know what I have, how it works and how to be safe.
(Mostly down to this site).
Now because of this I will be safer when compared with a person who knows nothing but believes they can rely on any reg to compensate for every eventuality.

I've also never had a short protection on any reg.
Even whilst conducting that ridiculous experiment where I tried to get the error screen working
Stupid thing to do, and kids, don't try that at home.

But because of that and many things, I don't put complete trust in any device.

Just learn enough to be safe and trust yourself.

 

[opticruby]

There was a time I used to test the atomizer short protection on my regulated mods to make sure it was working ok.

 

[Zutankhamun]

There was a time I used to test the atomizer short protection on my regulated mods to make sure it was working ok.

Ah. You make it sound better than I did.
I was originally testing a fuse in a mech which didn't work. I then put the same atty on a reg and made a terrible mistake concerning said atty, low ohms, and terrible dexterity which involved a pressed firing button and a screwdriver

It's okay. Me and the house were fine and Ive learnt my lesson thankfully.

 

[opticruby]

Ah. You make it sound better than I did.
I was originally testing a fuse in a mech which didn't work. I then put the same atty on a reg and made a terrible mistake concerning said atty, low ohms, and terrible dexterity which involved a pressed firing button and a screwdriver

It's okay. Me and the house were fine and Ive learnt my lesson thankfully.

At least you were ok. I've had a couple of close shaves myself but in all my years of vaping I've never had a battery vent.

 

[jordanFAMOUS]

I just got my first mechs, a couple rig v2's. Im an experienced builder I just havent ever messed with mechs. I know about battery safety but until I get the feel for using the mech I've been keeping my builds around 0.2. I have VTC4's and some 25 R's so I'm good on that front. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. That said Mooch tests the CDC of the batteries. We pulse them when we are vaping. I wouldnt carry around a 0.1 build in my pocket cause an autofire could be bad but using it at home is relatively safe as long as you dont run the battery too dead.

 

[KenD]

So GBalkam is preaching unsafe builds that exceed battery cdr again. What else is new...

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[retired1]

even at 22A it is still well within the tolerances of that battery. Basically, the battery would heat up slightly faster than it would at 20A. I wouldn't suggest holding the fire button down for 30 minutes, but under 5 to 10 seconds wouldn't make a significant change in temperature of the cell. Now I can't tell you what to build at, but 22A draw is well within the limits of that cell.

No. It's not.

The passing of dangerous information will cease, and it will cease immediately.

 

[medleypat]

Continuous Current Test Results...
Samsung Green 25R (25R5) 20A 2500mAh 18650 Bench Retest Results...a great 20A battery
and as I stated.. 22A- well within acceptable operating limits.

I read that article and no where in there does it say it is safe to run it at 22 amps in fact it says at 25 amps it got too hot. What you consider safe is one thing to advise a noon to do that is wrong plus you are not thinking of age that 20 amp battery running at 22 amp is going to age faster and as batteries age they loss CDR so 8 months down the road the CDR might only be 15 so by your advise a noon fires that battery at 22 amps bad things can happen you need to remember this is a new members thread