How do starting percentages help with mixing?

[ellejewell]

After 2 months of failed attempts at making vapeable juice I am beginning to get discouraged and I am about to give up on this.
I went through the trouble of testing all of my flavors to find my starting percentage prefrence, but now I run into the problem of how to turn that number into a vapeable mix, not just stand alone?

Say I have 4 flavors that are perfect at 10% each and I want an equal blend. Clearly I will not be mixing 40% flavor so how do I incorporate that into a recipe? Or say I want 1 of those flavors to stand out above the crowd. Do i use that one at my preferred starting percentage?

I am so confused. What was the point of doing all of this if I can't figure out how to break it down in a recipe?
Can someone PLEASE, PLEASE give me an idea of how to make this work??

 

[Steamer861]

I use these 2 sites for recipes and calculations they are a big help for me
DIY E-Liquid Calculator Ten Flavors With Nic. - PG/VG Adjust E-Liquid Recipes | DIY E-Juice | e cig Liquids

 

[Sgt.Rock]

Hi,

Many folks get frustrated trying to get this whole DIY thing figured out. I found an extremely useful method espoused by Bill's Magic Vapor in the TFA Mega-Thread that will help anyone figure out how to get on track inexpensively and pretty painlessly. He calls it the 100 DT --or 100 drop test.

Simply put it's testing your mixology by making a test mix using one drop for each percent in your recipe. Making a mix with one drop per percent yields about 3 mls for a mix test allowing enough to vape and see if you are in the right ballpark without wasting much liquid in the process.

Don't worry about how big a drop of a particular liquid is...You will drive yourself nuts--just measure all liquids the same..one drop=one drop in this test. Yes there will be slight variations depending on the liquid you are measuring but you will still end up knowing if you are on the right track even with the slight variations.

Give it a try!

 

[Sir2fyablyNutz]

Everyone is different. Usually I have come to like 15% to 20% in my mixes (mostly TFA). You'll just have to experiment. One recipe I like is Crispy Georgia Pear, 6% Apple, 6% Peach, and 6% Pear (2% EM optional). If you're wanting 4 flavors, it would be 4% to 5% of each to start. If you want one to stand out, add more but take away from others to keep the recipe in the 15 to 20 zone. Mix small batches so not to waste.

In recipes made with other flavor manufacturers I try and find their flavor percentage and compare it to the one I am using and then use proportionately.

Check these links for recipies :

DIY E-Liquid | E-Cigarette Forum
E-Liquid Recipes | E-Cigarette Forum
For recipes only!!!!!!! | E-Cigarette Forum
EcigExpress Archive Cookbook | Your favorite e-liquid recipes
Clone Recipes | Homemade E-juice Recipes
E-liquid recipes | dot1ml
Flavor Profiles that Pair Together in Recipes - Nouveau RawNouveau Raw
diyRecipeBook
Mega TFA / TPA Recipe Thread : DIY_eJuice
----------

Favorite tobacco flavoring discussion - Tobacco flavoring discussion only | E-Cigarette Forum

The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread | E-Cigarette Forum
The Hangsen Thread | E-Cigarette Forum
Inawera- a few reviews | E-Cigarette Forum
Flavor West DIY flavor review | E-Cigarette Forum
LIST of Capella Flavor Percentages | E-Cigarette Forum
Pure Vapes has 3ml FlavourArt flavorings | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[somdcomputerguy]

I've read probably somewhere here or maybe another PV related site that 20 drops equals 1ml. I plan on using this Percentage Calculator when I make the jump into DYI land. I'm just mixing different juices, sometimes a juice and a different flavor or two, for now though.

 

[ellejewell]

Everyone is different. Usually I have come to like 15% to 20% in my mixes (mostly TFA). You'll just have to experiment. One recipe I like is Crispy Georgia Pear, 6% Apple, 6% Peach, and 6% Pear (2% EM optional). If you're wanting 4 flavors, it would be 4% to 5% of each to start. If you want one to stand out, add more but take away from others to keep the recipe in the 15 to 20 zone. Mix small batches so not to waste.

In recipes made with other flavor manufacturers I try and find their flavor percentage and compare it to the one I am using and then use proportionately.

Check these links for recipies :

DIY E-Liquid | E-Cigarette Forum
E-Liquid Recipes | E-Cigarette Forum
For recipes only!!!!!!! | E-Cigarette Forum
EcigExpress Archive Cookbook | Your favorite e-liquid recipes
Clone Recipes | Homemade E-juice Recipes
E-liquid recipes | dot1ml
Flavor Profiles that Pair Together in Recipes - Nouveau RawNouveau Raw
diyRecipeBook
Mega TFA / TPA Recipe Thread : DIY_eJuice
----------

Favorite tobacco flavoring discussion - Tobacco flavoring discussion only | E-Cigarette Forum

The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread | E-Cigarette Forum
The Hangsen Thread | E-Cigarette Forum
Inawera- a few reviews | E-Cigarette Forum
Flavor West DIY flavor review | E-Cigarette Forum
LIST of Capella Flavor Percentages | E-Cigarette Forum
Pure Vapes has 3ml FlavourArt flavorings | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[KattMamma]

I got this from @Bill's Magic Vapor - I don't remember if it was posted in a thread, or I got it from the dropbox, but hopefully he won't mind me posting it here. This is apparently just for dessert flavors (which is almost all I make). He uses The Flavor Apprentice for nearly all flavors, so if you have some from elsewhere, the percentages may need to be adjusted. You might also take a read of this thread for more great advice The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread | E-Cigarette Forum :

Custards

Vanillas and Creams - 12%
Sweeteners - 7%
Primaries - 7-13%

Danish

Vanillas and Creams - 6-8%
Sweeteners - 4-8%
Primaries - 7-13%
Secondaries - 3-7%

Creams

Vanillas and Creams - 10%
Sweeteners - 5%
Primaries - 7-13%

Pies

Vanillas and Creams - 5-8%
Sweeteners - 4-6%
Primaries - 7-13%
Secondaries - 4-8%

Tarts

Vanillas and Creams - 8%
Sweeteners - 2-4%
Primaries - 7-15%

Ok, so overall, my favorite juice mixes have a range of uses of these common ingredients, as follows:

Overall Ranges

Vanillas and Creams - 5-12%
Sweeteners - 2-8%
Primaries - 7-15%
Secondaries - 3-8%

 

[ellejewell]

Thank you, your example is close to what I was looking for in a response. Sadly I have tried at least 50 recipes from the links you have mentioned and I have only created 4 that are vapeable but none that I would consider my ADV.

So basically, it wasn't really about finding a percentage, but to determine how strong each flavor is, correct? and the mix percentage is an average baseline you try to stay in the realm of for your final mixes? Just want to make sure I am understanding this right.

 

[ellejewell]

I got this from @Bill's Magic Vapor - I don't remember if it was posted in a thread, or I got it from the dropbox, but hopefully he won't mind me posting it here. This is apparently just for dessert flavors (which is almost all I make). He uses The Flavor Apprentice for nearly all flavors, so if you have some from elsewhere, the percentages may need to be adjusted. You might also take a read of this thread for more great advice The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread | E-Cigarette Forum :

Thank you, I can sort of see how that would incorporate into a recipe. I'm just trying to figure out how I could create a similiar structure using the percentages that I prefer for my flavors. I want to think that figuring out my flavors starting percentages was not a waste of time, but I could have easily testing them in water to figure out which ones where stronger than others.

 

[ellejewell]

Here is another question. say those 4 flavors that I like at 10% each and I want to mix them together. Should my overall final mix be 10% since all the flavors I like stand alone are at 10%? will this better help me understand the percentage and mixing process? Or am I way off the mark on my thinking. I know how to make a recipe.
The stand out flavor needs to be the higher percentage
The second most noticeable flavor should be slightly less than the highest precentage Etc. but when I try to follow this, things never taste how I expect them to.

 

[ellejewell]

Hi,

Many folks get frustrated trying to get this whole DIY thing figured out. I found an extremely useful method espoused by Bill's Magic Vapor in the TFA Mega-Thread that will help anyone figure out how to get on track inexpensively and pretty painlessly. He calls it the 100 DT --or 100 drop test.

Simply put it's testing your mixology by making a test mix using one drop for each percent in your recipe. Making a mix with one drop per percent yields about 3 mls for a mix test allowing enough to vape and see if you are in the right ballpark without wasting much liquid in the process.

Don't worry about how big a drop of a particular liquid is...You will drive yourself nuts--just measure all liquids the same..one drop=one drop in this test. Yes there will be slight variations depending on the liquid you are measuring but you will still end up knowing if you are on the right track even with the slight variations.

Give it a try!

@Sgt.Rock do you have the link to that so I can check it out. Thanks

 

[Sir2fyablyNutz]

Here is another question. say those 4 flavors that I like at 10% each and I want to mix them together. Should my overall final mix be 10% since all the flavors I like stand alone are at 10%? will this better help me understand the percentage and mixing process? Or am I way off the mark on my thinking. I know how to make a recipe.
The stand out flavor needs to be the higher percentage
The second most noticeable flavor should be slightly less than the highest precentage Etc. but when I try to follow this, things never taste how I expect them to.

If I were to try it I would stay inside my 15 to 20 rule for strength (TFA). Using more concentrated flavors like FA would be considerably less. If they were all 10% flavors I would try something like 5%, 5%, 5%, %5. Or, with one dominate flavor 7%+ 5% (=12)+ 4% (=16)+4% (=20). You could also try 6%+ 4% + 3% +3% =16% total. There are a 1000 variations, just pray for luck. When I am playing with the flavors I mix a small amount in a bottle that could hold more, then I can adjust once by changing the recipe if it gets close. The 100 drop test would be a good start to try before you mix up 10 ml, at least you'll get in the ballpark.

Link : 100 Drop test :

Dropbox - Bill's 100DT Method Explained.docx

 

[KattMamma]

I would do what @Sir2fyablyNutz suggests - 5-5-5-5 or 7-5-4-4 for starters.

 

[ellejewell]

If I were to try it I would stay inside my 15 to 20 rule for strength (TFA). Using more concentrated flavors like FA would be considerably less. If they were all 10% flavors I would try something like 5%, 5%, 5%, %5. Or, with one dominate flavor 7%+ 5% (=12)+ 4% (=16)+4% (=20). You could also try 6%+ 4% + 3% +3% =16% total. There are a 1000 variations, just pray for luck. When I am playing with the flavors I mix a small amount in a bottle that could hold more, then I can adjust once by changing the recipe if it gets close. The 100 drop test would be a good start to try before you mix up 10 ml, at least you'll get in the ballpark.

Link : 100 Drop test :

Dropbox - Bill's 100DT Method Explained.docx

@Sir2fyablyNutz I guess I didnt think about all the different possible combinations. I will give the 100 drop test a try. Question, when doing the drop test or testing flavors in general. How do you add back the quanitity you took out to keep things exact? say I made a test batch with 3ml of pg/vg base and used 2ml total flavor and I used 5 drops to test in my atty. Do I need to add back flavor too or just pg/vg? and how does that affect the flavor percentages

 

[Sir2fyablyNutz]

elle, I'm no expert. What I do is use the e juice me up calculator and plug in a recipe to make 8 mil in a 15 ml bottle. (5555 for 20% or 4444 for 16% for example. If you're using 3 ml base and 2 ml flavor you're using 40% flavoring (too high in my opinion). If you have this already mixed up, add 5 ml base and you'll be at 20% flavor. 8 ml base + 2ml flavor = 80% base + 20% flavor = 100% total. Even the 20% may be too high, which is why I use the 15 to 20 percent as a "guide".

Not knowing how large the drops are it would be difficult to add back what you've used. By just adding the 5 ml base you can find out if your recipe is in the ball park, then know how you want to adjust on the next try.

I've got a 30 ml bottle of my mistakes, using the same 6 or 8 flavors in different combos, and together they are a really nice recipe, except I have no idea what the percentages are. The other choice is to just flush down the drain.

 

[ellejewell]

elle, I'm no expert. What I do is use the e juice me up calculator and plug in a recipe to make 8 mil in a 15 ml bottle. (5555 for 20% or 4444 for 16% for example. If you're using 3 ml base and 2 ml flavor you're using 40% flavoring (too high in my opinion). If you have this already mixed up, add 5 ml base and you'll be at 20% flavor. 8 ml base + 2ml flavor = 80% base + 20% flavor = 100% total. Even the 20% may be too high, which is why I use the 15 to 20 percent as a "guide".

Not knowing how large the drops are it would be difficult to add back what you've used. By just adding the 5 ml base you can find out if your recipe is in the ball park, then know how you want to adjust on the next try.

I've got a 30 ml bottle of my mistakes, using the same 6 or 8 flavors in different combos, and together they are a really nice recipe, except I have no idea what the percentages are. The other choice is to just flush down the drain.

Thanks, yeah it's early for me and I wasnt thinking I was thinking 5mls total so I threw out those numbers. I usually mix in the 10-15% flavor range. It was mearly an example although I should have worked out the math before posting. I thought I saw a thread somewhere how one person if they made a test batch they would use 3 drops to test and replace the 3 drops they took out so they could add more flavor? I can't seem to find it now, but if I use the 100drop test method I'm not sure if it would work out the same way. So that is what I am trying to figure out now. I just dont want to whip up something do the drop test and say hey I need more strawberry and not know what percentage I am at after taking some out to test. Does that make sense?

 

[Sir2fyablyNutz]

it does make sense. Using the drop test, (I haven't read it, so I am surmising) if you had say strawberry at 10% you would use 10 drops of flavor. Therefore after your test you wanted strawberry stronger at 12% you would make another batch with 12 drops strawberry. You have to consider that adding the 2 extra drops of strawberry will push the entire percentages up in the test, so you may want to consider lowering a different flavor by a drop or two to stay in a range if you have one. (I use the 15 to 20 percent range.) More is not always better. You might find 20 percent is too strong and prefer your vape closer to the 16 percent. This is just the guidelines "I" use. I do have a couple recipes over the 20 percent, but it's rare for me. I am a 65pg/35vg vape.

I have dumped down the drain more failures than I like to admit. When someone who is a high vg vape makes a recipe they usually have higher percentages of flavor because vg doesn't carry the flavor like pg does. You're just going to have to try and fail like most of us.

I'm treating it as a hobby. Personally I feel the "ADV" is a myth, but I have found a few "LTV's" long term vapes.

 

[ellejewell]

it does make sense. Using the drop test, (I haven't read it, so I am surmising) if you had say strawberry at 10% you would use 10 drops of flavor. Therefore after your test you wanted strawberry stronger at 12% you would make another batch with 12 drops strawberry. You have to consider that adding the 2 extra drops of strawberry will push the entire percentages up in the test, so you may want to consider lowering a different flavor by a drop or two to stay in a range if you have one. (I use the 15 to 20 percent range.) More is not always better. You might find 20 percent is too strong and prefer your vape closer to the 16 percent. This is just the guidelines "I" use. I do have a couple recipes over the 20 percent, but it's rare for me. I am a 65pg/35vg vape.

I have dumped down the drain more failures than I like to admit. When someone who is a high vg vape makes a recipe they usually have higher percentages of flavor because vg doesn't carry the flavor like pg does. You're just going to have to try and fail like most of us.

I'm treating it as a hobby. Personally I feel the "ADV" is a myth, but I have found a few "LTV's" long term vapes.

So I have to make a new batch I can't just add to the exsisting one? That sucks! I'd like to say that I treat it like a hobby, but I originally started this to save money and to quit smoking. I didn't realize it would be so challenging and wasteful. I have spent more money in flavorings and everything else than I ever did smoking and I am just so tired of dumping stuff out. I don't mind vaping the crap creations I make for the most part, but my husband does and he is not an easy person to please. All I know is that what I have been doing is not working so I am trying to find some way to make this whole DIY process easier to do and get decent results from it. Anyway, thank you so much for answering some of my questions. I will take my new found knowledge and try to whip up a couple of things and see how it turns out.

 

[Sir2fyablyNutz]

I don't know what percentages/vendors are in your other recipe but "yes" you could add to it, I do it all the time when I tinker. There's a lot of math involved, and you're still just trying to get in the ball park. Take a deep breath and relax, I'm positive DIY can be cheaper in the long run, especially with 2 vapers to mix for. Good luck.

 

[DoubleEwe]

There is another method you could try, which is to simply find recipes that you like the sound of, make them in small amounts (5ml) and then fine tune the recipe to suit your preferences after your initial taste test.
Look for recipes with decent ratings from more than one user, read the notes.

Recipe resource: e-Liquid Calculator

You can also use the recipe site to narrow down the percentages for specific flavourings (based on what the mixers have used in their recipes).
Users also give their feedback/findings on the flavour on the flavour search page.
To find the flavouring just click on 'user' in the top right hand corner and select 'flavor list' from the drop-down menu.

There are other recipe sites, which can be found using our friend, google.