How to Identify a Fake NonProfit Organization

[Babachoo]

Since it has now been well over a week since the ECA said they would be posting their incorporation papers online, I now have serious doubts that they are even a legitimate, legally recognized and incorporated 501c6, as they say they are. So I thought I would post this link and quote some of its material and make you all aware that there are quite a few "red flags" mentioned in this article that we have all seen employed by the ECA. So please read this and make your own decisions.

How to Identify a Fake Non-Profit Organization

You stumble across a website for a fantastic charity. It's a cause that hasn't been done before, and you're excited that you can help them out. But you find out, six months or a year later, that you've been had. You gave money to a charity online that was really a charity of one; all the funds went to the person who set it up.

It is appallingly easy today to create and maintain a fake charity. Online tools like Paypal and ad exchanges make it simple to market and fund a fraud, and websites-in-a-box, where you simply fill in the blanks with your fake charity name and information, make it simple to create a web presence

Sound famililar?

It is easier to create a fake charity than it is to identify one. You start with an idea, big or little: save the whales, the cancer victims, or the lost dogs of New Orleans. You register with your government. Then you set up a website for your charity, complete with easy donation methods like Paypal. You might even offer something in exchange for a donation: an ebook, for instance, costs you nothing but the time involved in developing it, or the small cost involved in purchasing an already-written ebook from one of the many vendors online (find them at eBay).

You can set up a real charity using the exact same methods. The difference: a fake charity never does anything with its cash except deposit it in the bank account of the person who started the charity. A real charity reports where their money has gone, and is accountable for its expenditures to a board of directors.

Fake 501's more often than not actually do get approved by the government, then proceed with raking in the donations. But the ECA still has yet to prove that they have legal 501c6 status, so it appears that they haven't even bothered to go through the first logical step, thus making it very easy to spot a huge red flag.

Signs Of A Legitimate Charity

It is easier to determine which charities are legitimate than identifying which ones are fake. Start with a careful examination of the website. Look for the following signs:

• A board of directors numbering at least six people, with their credentials or regular job titles and place of employment listed
• A permanent street address in the United States or your own country.
• A 501(c) statement
• Success stories
• An outline of this charity's goals
• Downloadable financial statements that detail where money has been expended in the past
• Accurate statistics with verifiable and legitimate sources
• Good writing, spelling, and grammar

Any charitable website lacking two or more of these traits is suspect. That does not mean the charity is fake. On the contrary, it might be very new and very legitimate, but without a track record. However, fake charities generally lack at least two of the above items.

Of the traits above, the most important is a fair-sized board of directors who you can contact. A charity run by one person lacks accountability. A board of directors made up of "pillars of the community" is unlikely to endorse a charity created to cheat people out of money. If you're donating a large amount of money, call or write to at least one of these directors asking for more details about the charity.

Now if that doesn't sound the alarms, nothing will. Anyone following the ECA here in these forums knows full and well that the only thing they do have, of those above items, is an address in the US. They've been laughed at for having terrible spelling, grammar, and overall writing. They post no information about their Board of Directors, They have no 501c posted. The only thing that they have going for them is a single US address posted on their site, which is an office on K-Street in DC, that I've never been able to get anyone on the phone at. They have posted hilariously false numbers and statistics here at ecigforum regarding things like how many puffs the average vaper takes in a day.

The forum at their website is hidden from the public. They have a private forum here at ECF too where they discuss things privately as well. They also have the ability to moderate/edit/delete posts made here at ECF, so if they don't like what you have to say, it's quite possible that they could censor you, and I have heard at least two reports of people experiencing this.

So make up your own mind, I'm just going to keep making you all aware that you need to know who the hell you're handing your hard-earned money to and realize that at this point, they can do whatever they would like with your money. They could take it to a casino and bet it all on one blackjack hand and there's nothing you could do about it, because they are not legally recognized as a 501c6 until they post proof that they are, because the Office of the Secretary, Washington D.C. says that they know absolutely nothing about any registrations under the name "Electronic Cigarette Association".

 

[ApOsTle51]

your not saying that the ECA is just a scaremongering scam and it's all a big con are you ???? or is it just for information so people can make their own judgment...yeah that's what it is

 

[halopunker]

There will be 'proof' posted in the next few days, hopefully it will be up to your standards...for some reason I doubt it will be.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Since it has now been well over a week since the ECA said they would be posting their incorporation papers online

NYC is working on getting scans of all of the paperwork.

They post no information about their Board of Directors

ECA Membership | Electronic Cigarette Association (2nd paragaraph)

They have no 501c posted.

This makes no sense.

They have posted hilariously false numbers and statistics here at ecigforum regarding things like how many puffs the average vaper takes in a day.

The myth and fact in question was actually an industry study that was done on a particular brand/product of which there is not only basis from that study, but it could be argued that the Ruyan study done by Dr. Laugesen could easily back up the findings.

However, after discussion between several members of the forum and myself, I did take the concerns of the forum members to the board where they determined to remove the Myth v. Fact.

As you did not participate in that discussion, it is interesting that you continue to hash this one up when all of the participants of said discussion found closure.

The forum at their website is hidden from the public.

Uh... there is no forum at the ECA website. And even if there were, as there may be in the future, private forums are completely acceptable for many other groups. ASH even requires a $25 fee just to be able to read their forum.

They have a private forum here at ECF too where they discuss things privately as well.

Did you know that suppliers have a private forum too AND the forum sponsors have a private forum as well?

They also have the ability to moderate/edit/delete posts made here at ECF, so if they don't like what you have to say, it's quite possible that they could censor you, and I have heard at least two reports of people experiencing this.

Yes. Within the ECA forum, there are moderators, of which I am one. There are also several other mods in this section that have no affiliation as a supplier nor as an ECA member.

You also have heard of at least two reports of people experiencing censorship in the ECA forum? I would have been notified of this being a mod of this section. If I wanted to censor you, I certainly could have... never have though.

Babachoo - Your concerns have been given ample space on the ECA because honestly, concerns are good to have about anything. Your strong dissent has helped others formulate their own opinions either for or against the ECA and personally, I think that is good.

I certainly don't expect anyone who isn't hopeful to keep the ecig legal to support the ECA. I certainly don't expect anyone who doesn't want to donate to the ECA, but chooses to write letters on behalf of their own voice to the government to do so, to feel that the ECA stands behind them for their efforts. The ECA wants people to participate however they see fit, whether that be from a donation or from doing their own thing. Some people have voices they choose to use, some have funds they choose to use, and some have both.

As I have asked in another thread and several others have asked, where are your specific questions? A request for this list of these questions that continue to go unanswered, continues to be ignored, so one can only assume that you in fact do not have any real questions. (Yes, I am aware that you did request the scans of the paperwork, of which I do apologize NYC has been tardy at posting... but she is working on getting them for you... running two businesses and fighting her portion of the fight... she is working on this.)

I see your dedication in the effort to bash the ECA and I just wish you would put that dedication towards writing letters to your elected officials to keep the ecig a viable option for smokers... unless of course that is not your intent.

Edit: Also, in reference to any "anonymity" that the ECA hasn't divulged yet, I think it might be time that you yourself release your "anonymity" and give us a location or something!

 

[Babachoo]

NYC is working on getting scans of all of the paperwork.

And she is failing miserably, seeing as how she said they would be posted more than a week ago.

ECA Membership | Electronic Cigarette Association (2nd paragaraph)

The only thing listed there are names of 7 mysterious people who cannot be contacted. According to the article, since you don't list business and personal contact information including addresses and phone numbers, that should raise an eyebrow.

This makes no sense.

What do you not understand about "They have no 501c posted". It's quite clear that I was referring to the fact that you have failed to post a copy of your 501c(6) paperwork and status showing that you are a legally incorporated organization, registered with the government. Did you forget what 501 status means, or did you not understand what I meant by "they haven't posted (it) yet"? I'm really not sure what you don't understand about this, but I'd be happy to help if you could further clarify your thoughts.

As you did not participate in that discussion, it is interesting that you continue to hash this one up when all of the participants of said discussion found closure.

Just because you close a thread and assume that everyone thinks that you somehow gained any credibility by changing your stance AFTER YOU SAT IN THAT THREAD AND BERATED KATE FOR 2 WEEKS, telling her that SHE was the irrational one and that she should just shut up, etc....

For ANYONE to forget about the way you treated her in that thread, and then swiftly (after 2 weeks of arguing like a 2nd grader) changing your stance and closing the thread, hoping everyone would ignore it....I'll just say that if you thought anyone would for how you acted in that thread, you are delusional.

Uh... there is no forum at the ECA website.

Then what is in the members area? I figured it was a discussion forum since there are no public places seen on your site to discuss anything at all.

Did you know that suppliers have a private forum too AND the forum sponsors have a private forum as well?

Yes, and I disagree with that aspect of this forum a lot. It's one of the things I would love to see changed around here.

Babachoo - Your concerns have been given ample space on the ECA because honestly, concerns are good to have about anything. Your strong dissent has helped others formulate their own opinions either for or against the ECA and personally, I think that is good.

I'm going to highlight everything below this point in the thread because your true colors start to come out. Everything above this magical line was civil enough that I wouldn't mind discussing things with you back and forth like this, because frankly, it's the first time I've seen you interact with anyone who isn't kissing your ... in a halfway respectful manner. But you throw that all to hell from this point on, I guess you're tired of people asking questions or something. I don't know and I don't care what your problem is, I just know that it's yet another red flag why I personally do not trust you or the organization which you represent. For the rest of your reply, you think you're being clever by tossing all kinds of accusations my way, but the fact is that it's already been stated who I am, where I'm from, and the mods (Walrus) even posted (without asking or informing me) that I'm using ATT internet out of Plano Texas. I've even posted my occupations a few times on these forums, so you're the uneducated one for not doing your homework. All this time you spend brewing up these idiotic fantasies about who you think I am, you could see that I've been transparent from day one here, I have nothing to hide. So take a close look at how your attitude changes below, and try and avoid that type of rhetoric when dealing with people like myself. Because you're not only going to fail at taking me down to your level, you're going to fail at winning any more respect from anyone else, but you still don't seem to get that since this is a modus operandi you can't seem to avoid.

I certainly don't expect anyone who isn't hopeful to keep the ecig legal to support the ECA. I certainly don't expect anyone who doesn't want to donate to the ECA, but chooses to write letters on behalf of their own voice to the government to do so, to feel that the ECA stands behind them for their efforts. The ECA wants people to participate however they see fit, whether that be from a donation or from doing their own thing. Some people have voices they choose to use, some have funds they choose to use, and some have both.

As I have asked in another thread and several others have asked, where are your specific questions? A request for this list of these questions that continue to go unanswered, continues to be ignored, so one can only assume that you in fact do not have any real questions. (Yes, I am aware that you did request the scans of the paperwork, of which I do apologize NYC has been tardy at posting... but she is working on getting them for you... running two businesses and fighting her portion of the fight... she is working on this.)

I see your dedication in the effort to bash the ECA and I just wish you would put that dedication towards writing letters to your elected officials to keep the ecig a viable option for smokers... unless of course that is not your intent.

Edit: Also, in reference to any "anonymity" that the ECA hasn't divulged yet, I think it might be time that you yourself release your "anonymity" and give us a location or something!

 

[Babachoo]

As for the long list of questions that I'm supposedly failing to make you aware of...it's not my job to compress this entire forum and put it on a nice platter for you to eat, but I HAVE indeed already done that, a long time ago. You just haven't bothered to check any of the threads or read any of the epic posts that have been directed at you. Here's a couple of examples posted by myself and others.


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/eca/18275-eca-do-we-want-need-them-2.html#post299102

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/eca/18275-eca-do-we-want-need-them-3.html#post300248

Oh and as far as contacting my congressmen, I actually have contacted all of them on the national level, both via email and phone. Actually spoke with one who called me back after their staff relayed the message. It's funny you bring that up though, because part of the reason that I am asking you to prove your claims is because I am including the ECA's url for them to visit, because your video is a decent tool to introduce them to the concept if they aren't already familiar. But I know that they'll have questions, and to be honest, you guys aren't very good at all about being transparent or answering questions, so I feel that it is my duty, since in a way I am somewhat forced to attach my name to your org, to get you guys used to having to be held accountable and answering tough questions.

So you see, we're not mortal enemies, just two people with the same interests, but one is warning the other that they're wearing their underwear on the outside of their pants or (insert some other oddity that would get someone's attention). That's all it started out as, just trying to get more answers to learn more about your org, but since day one you all AND your shills/cronies/thugs/etc... have spent way too much time attacking me instead of just answering the questions at hand.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

The only thing listed there are names of 7 mysterious people who cannot be contacted. According to the article, since you don't list business and personal contact information including addresses and phone numbers, that should raise an eyebrow.

It was decided that listing any business names would be unfair to other supplier members of the ECA. We don't want any consumer to think that one supplier member is better than any other because they sit on the board.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/eca/18275-eca-do-we-want-need-them-2.html#post299102

sorry... I am just not seeing a question there.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/eca/18275-eca-do-we-want-need-them-3.html#post300248

again, I am just not seeing a question there either.

Like I said a few posts ago, your dissent is your opinion and that is fine. But you keep requesting that we read these threads, which believe me, I have, and I have not seen these questions that are not being answered that you simply must have an answer for. When questions are asked, they are addressed as quickly as possible.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Oh and as far as contacting my congressmen, I actually have contacted all of them on the national level, both via email and phone. Actually spoke with one who called me back after their staff relayed the message. It's funny you bring that up though, because part of the reason that I am asking you to prove your claims is because I am including the ECA's url for them to visit, because your video is a decent tool to introduce them to the concept if they aren't already familiar.

This is wonderful that you have done this. It is all that a consumer can be expected to do! Get their voice heard and use the tools that are available to do so. That's all the ECA wants to offer to consumers... tools to help them express their point of view and if a consumer wants to help the ECA with donations to help us in lobbying, then that is greatly appreciated.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Then what is in the members area? I figured it was a discussion forum since there are no public places seen on your site to discuss anything at all.

This section is for paid suppliers so they can go and pay their fees through a secure section of the site. That's all. Nothing more. No discussions. Just a secure location to pay their dues.

 

[Babachoo]

Oh I see. You're so new to this that you unless something has a question mark at the end of it, you don't recognize it as a possible question. I guess I'll help you by clarifying that "items in question" aren't always brought to your attention in the form of an actual question. Sometimes when you are having a discussion and another person points out what he sees, if you feel that he is wrong somehow, it is your duty to correct him, telling him what is wrong with his perception, in a manner that is tactful and factual, not opinionated and derogatory.....


Ok really, do I seriously have to explain this to you? I just don't really have the time for any more of this crap today, perhaps you could just google anything you don't understand about communications and teach yourself how to better understand what has been writted in those links, and how they are indeed questioning your organization's motives and operations, as well as the PR you're giving yourself so far. Best of luck figuring it out, wish I had more time to tutor you but I don't.

 

[Oldnamenomore]

babachoo why don't you go .........e or something it's obvious you have a whole lot of pent up energy.

Originally Posted by article
Signs Of A Legitimate Charity

It is easier to determine which charities are legitimate than identifying which ones are fake. Start with a careful examination of the website. Look for the following signs:

* A board of directors numbering at least six people, with their credentials or regular job titles and place of employment listed
* A permanent street address in the United States or your own country.
* A 501(c) statement
* Success stories
* An outline of this charity's goals
* Downloadable financial statements that detail where money has been expended in the past
* Accurate statistics with verifiable and legitimate sources
* Good writing, spelling, and grammar



Any charitable website lacking two or more of these traits is suspect. That does not mean the charity is fake. On the contrary, it might be very new and very legitimate, but without a track record. However, fake charities generally lack at least two of the above items.

reread the bold part

 

[Vapor Pete]

Still confused over this whole ECA thing. So someone started an association to help our cause... then I see people b*tching about them?
Why are we kicking the people who are trying to help? Or did I miss something?
My best,
-VP

 

[katink]

Agree VP.
Babachoo, I take offense at your spreading out your agenda, whateverthat may be, across all of us here - acting as if you are doing this 'in all our interests'.
We are all grown-ups here, who can make up their own mind about whether we can and will trust ECA or not; and I certainly don't want any part, not even as 'subject of your care', of the way you are acting here. Please refrain.

I'm just going to keep making you all aware that you need to know who the hell you're handing your hard-earned money to and realize that at this point, they can do whatever they would like with your money.

 

[kylewinther]

Who knows what to believe anymore.

 

[Vapor Pete]

Agree VP.
Babachoo, I take offense at your spreading out your agenda, whateverthat may be, across all of us here - acting as if you are doing this 'in all our interests'.
We are all grown-ups here, who can make up their own mind about whether we can and will trust ECA or not; and I certainly don't want any part, not even as 'subject of your care', of the way you are acting here. Please refrain.

I could really care less if babachoo stops posting or not. He seems to be good at trying to belittle, and talk down to others, but there are more than a few of those types here on the forum. But its easy to skip his posts and reject his retoric. Im just really confused, as I said, as to what this is all about?
Is the ECA like the NRA... who is there to help, save, and go to bat for those of us who care to take advantage of our right to bear arms? And I certainly would not, as a free, gun owning American, kick dirt at the NRA! So is that a good anology? Is the ECA like the NRA? And if so, why are people upset about this?
My best,
-VP

 

[eplanet]

Babachoo,

What exactly are your intentions? you are quite disturbing. The ECA is for the e-smoker, The Intentions of the ECA are true not only as suppliers, but as users. All we want is for the PV to be available to all.
It takes time for new things to form and you are extremely ....! What are your true intentions? where do you stand? You are free to express your views and that is your right and I have no problem with that, however you are extremely annoying and impatient. All of your post's appear to be negative and anti our cause, so once again, what are your true intentions? This is a forum for our kind to bond, not destroy.

Just ease up and relax man...


Peace...
We are all in this together, what is your motivation?

 

[Vapor Pete]

Babachoo,

What exactly are your intentions? you are quite disturbing. The ECA is for the e-smoker, The Intentions of the ECA are true not only as suppliers, but as users. All we want is for the PV to be available to all.
It takes time for new things to form and you are extremely ....! What are your true intentions? where do you stand? You are free to express your views and that is your right and I have no problem with that, however you are extremely annoying and impatient. All of your post's appear to be negative and anti our cause, so once again, what are your true intentions? This is a forum for our kind to bond, not destroy.

Just ease up and relax man...

Peace...
We are all in this together, what is your motivation?

eplanet, it has been my experience with people such as babachoo, ones who belittle, berate, insult intelligence and call names will not respond to your kind words of advice. People like him cannot ease up and relax, because they thrive on raising the tempers of others. It also appears his attacks are geared toward Lacy now, and not so much the ECA.
I have learned that the saying, "Dont feed the troll" holds true.
My best,
-VP

PS: hehehe...my 420th post. Not that it means anything.

 

[TDM]

I kinda see Babachoos point. Several weeks age he asked a simple question. He asked for proof about the eca being legit. Everyone has been chastising him for it. Members of the ECA keep saying will proof next week. Next week comes. Next week. So on and so on. This problem can be solved very simply!!

Put the documents up for viewing!! Quit stalling! By continuing to stall ECA you are actually making Babachoo appear to be telling the truth!

 

[eplanet]

Hey TDM

I see his point as well, I personally am not involved in that area, but I do know it is being taken care of. I don't even know who is handling that or who put a date on it. All I do know is that all of babachoo's post's are about bashing the ECA and I dont ever see him post socially, so I feel he has an agenda. Please be patient, all of the info will be available, However I like to think of the forum as a community and he seem's to definately have an agenda.

Your questions will be answered, be patient my friend...

Peace...