Imperial Tobacco to develop e-cigarettes as profits drop

[Bill Godshall]

Imperial tobacco to develop e-cigarettes as profits drop
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Looks like all of the big tobacco companies are now marketing and/or developing e-cigarettes.

 

[Petrodus]

This is good news for our "health related grass roots movement"
on many-many levels. We can argue this and that ...
However, it's obvious, the business of e-cigarettes is
driving the market and BT has the resources to
fund research as well as fight and educate the public
via TV commercials and other media.

BT companies would not be jumping into the game
if they were afraid of what the FDA might do.

It's understood we are concerned about the future of
our favorite PV's and the Mom and Pops shops.
However, I suggest our "hobby" interest are not
an issue with BT who's focused on "mainstream" e-smokers.

 

[DC2]

It's understood we are concerned about the future of
our favorite PV's and the Mom and Pops shops.
However, I suggest our "hobby" interest are not
an issue with BT who's focused on "mainstream" e-smokers.

This is what we need to hope for, because the cards are all on the table now.

 

[Petrodus]

This is what we need to hope for, because the cards are all on the table now.

We're all keeping our fingers crossed.

 

[Fiamma]

This is good news for our "health related grass roots movement"
on many-many levels. We can argue this and that ...
However, it's obvious, the business of e-cigarettes is
driving the market and BT has the resources to
fund research as well as fight and educate the public
via TV commercials and other media.

BT companies would not be jumping into the game
if they were afraid of what the FDA might do.

It's understood we are concerned about the future of
our favorite PV's and the Mom and Pops shops.
However, I suggest our "hobby" interest are not
an issue with BT who's focused on "mainstream" e-smokers.

I suggest that if BT succeds in shutting off access to internet ordering of gear, juice and nicotine, it will affect us all, hobbyist or not.

ALL of the legislation they have written for introduction in several states has that inclusion.

 

[Petrodus]

I suggest that if BT succeds in shutting off access to internet ordering of gear, juice and nicotine, it will affect us all, hobbyist or not.

ALL of the legislation they have written for introduction in several states has that inclusion.

 

[rolygate]

Interesting. Imperial Tobacco was the last of the major tobacco firms to stop hitting on ecigs.

It's a good thing in phase 2 but bad in phase 3...

Phase 1 is where they knock ecigs, 2 is where they join up, 3 is where they start to try and eliminate us...

 

[Petrodus]

It really wasn't that long ago when everyone thought e-cigarettes
were a big joke ... Now it seems everyone wants to either
ban them, tax them, or wants a "piece of the action"

 

[BostonVape]

It really wasn't that long ago when everyone thought e-cigarettes
were a big joke ... Now it seems everyone wants to either
ban them, tax them, or wants a "piece of the action"

Exactly this, well said.

 

[rothenbj]

"BT companies would not be jumping into the game if they were afraid of what the FDA might do."

Unfortunately what works for BT might not be what works for us. They are pretty confident that the FDA won't close E Cigs down, but will BT and the FDA promulgate what we don't want to see? I don't like the legislation RJR is already getting pushed out in various political arenas and the really big boy hasn't even entered the fray.

 

[bnrkwest]

The thing I don't like is BT equated with healthier ecigs. I guess it is if the only place you could get the nic patch or nic gum or ecig was RJR, etc. It sorta goes against my grain. bnrk

 

[aikanae1]

The thing I don't like is BT equated with healthier ecigs. I guess it is if the only place you could get the nic patch or nic gum or ecig was RJR, etc. It sorta goes against my grain. bnrk

and against your pocket book. Either a drug or tobacco product, e-cigs / juice will be raised to the price of cigarettes or more. A complaint that RJR has made about e-cigs was the "unfair advantage" of lower overhead = the reason for success. That makes it a win/win for government to 'level the field' with taxes and eliminating online access. Everybody's happy - but us.

That's the way officals see it. They also think the 'public will get over it' and they are right, the public usually does forget.

What politicans don't know is that e-cigs don't look like cigarettes anymore. All they know is what they have been told by tobacco lobbyists, just like doctors depend on drug reps. Doctor's don't know e-cigs don't look like cigarettes anymore either. I think this is really important because it's up to us to tell them, show them what the idustry is really like. We have to become lobbyists. They have to hear what is really going on.

 

[Petrodus]

“The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change”
Heraclitus

There's one thing we can all agree on ...
We all will be able to reflect back and say
we experienced the Golden Age of e-cigarettes.

 

[jazon1]

the problem with BT getting more involved is they will edge out or buy out all the smaller guys,
have the government set up some rules and standards that only they can afford to pay for and maintain
and then only sell disposables at crazy prices so they can keep the money coming in,
and im sure they will do all the can to get rid of or ban DIY and pretty much anything reusable until it suits them.

 

[Bill Godshall]

In contrast to the conspiracy theories posted about Big Tobacco companies, Reynolds and Lorillard do NOT support the FDA's "deeming regulation" for e-cigarettes, and I suspect that Philip Morris may now have adopted a similar position (since the company announced it will begin marketing e-cigs later this year).

My biggest concern about the "deeming" regulation for the past year has been that Philip Morris would publicly support it (since PM doesn't market e-cigs, and since e-cigs are taking cigarette market share away from PM).


Although state level e-cigarette legislation/regulations being lobbied for by Reynolds are a concern, they won't ban companies from selling the products, won't ban truthful claims that companies can say about the products, and won't limit nicotine levels or flavorings (as FDA regulation would do, or is likely of doing).

 

[rolygate]

It's generally a good thing for public health if the large tobacco corporations move into e-cigarettes. No one else has the kind of reach they have to promote sales to the point where the average smoker will consider giving ecigs a try. It's also a good thing for us, in principal, because they need to be against the FDA's pharma-led agenda to remove ecigs from the market. So on balance, this is both good for public health and good for ecigs in general.

But there is a downside: the basic rules of business mean that the easiest way to increase market share is to eliminate competitors rather than fight with them for their percentage. So page 1, item #1 of the pharma/tobacco playbook is: buy legislation to eliminate competitors - it's the cheapest and quickest way to get more market share. So in the long run, the rules of business say that large corporations with a lot of funds to expend are not good for the rest of us. RJR are the first to go to phase 3 and you can see how that plays out: they'll crush you if they can.

Public health wins either way. The current ecig community is on a loser, that's all. RJR and the other mega corporations will need to remove web sales in order to maximise market share, so don't expect them to support the upgrade/aftermarket, which is basically where we are with our 3rd-generation equipment. They are all about selling mini ecigs in B&M, and if they can eliminate everything else, that will be just fine.

Yes - they need to protect ecigs at federal level.
Yes - whatever happens, it's good for public health.
No - big tobacco is not going to be good for the ecig community in the long term: they will need to eliminate web sales where they can, and products they don't sell (i.e. what we, the online community, use). We're less than 10% of the market so we don't matter anyway.

It's just business. All it means is that ecigs as we know them will become black market products, at some point in time, in some specific regions. That is, after all, already the case in some places; it's just that this will spread. It shouldn't be a surprise: corporations controlling markets worth hundreds of billions are hardly likely to let penny-ante players continue to rule the game. That is simply out of the question.

 

[Fiamma]

I agree with you Roly, but I don't have to like it Having suspected the end game would be either the FDA foaming at the mouth or BT trying to take over, at least I'm reasonably prepared for a few years, and then it will only be an issue of securing nic to continue making juice.

 

[jazon1]

I agree with you Roly, but I don't have to like it Having suspected the end game would be either the FDA foaming at the mouth or BT trying to take over, at least I'm reasonably prepared for a few years, and then it will only be an issue of securing nic to continue making juice.

yup same here,got about three years of nic,a few RBA's and some quality devices should hold me out for awhile,i refuse to give BT another penny and will never buy any of there ecigs,once i run out of nic ill just go 0%nic if i must,besides i can see BT adding more chemicals to there juice to make it more addictive just like they did with cigs,they dont care about heath they are in it for the money.

 

[rolygate]

The timescale is fairly long with all these things, we're talking decades here. No need to worry.

The way it looks to me right now is that the FDA won't issue the deeming regulation, at least in its full glory, because Salem says no. There might be some part of it that hurts us but not tobacco. The main threat is a web sales ban but I believe this is not part of the deeming regs anyway. The novel product restriction (nothing allowable if it wasn't sold in early 2007) won't be implemented because that would exclude BT's products such as Vuse. Or, there will be some kind of get-out in the equivalency spec.

So BT coming in looks as if it has protected us from the the FDA's plan A, we'll have to see what plan B is. When I say that BT coming in is a bad thing for us, I mean in the long term, not right now; at the moment they are friends. RJR seems to have jumped the gun by going into phase 3 a bit early, but I always wondered about the competence of their management (they screwed up by taking on CASAA and by assuming they would win easily). There has been a long history of pharma and tobacco totally underestimating the power of the ecig community, and you have to wonder about their competence as a result. If RJR had really been competent with their ecig plans they would have bought out an ecig vendor and been selling the next day, there is no observable reason for the faffing about they have done with Vuse (except penny-pinching). So taking on the the ecig community in Oklahoma and getting a hard kick in the nuts seems like another example of their less-than-competent management.

 

[retired1]

Public health wins either way. The current ecig community is on a loser, that's all. RJR and the other mega corporations will need to remove web sales in order to maximise market share, so don't expect them to support the upgrade/aftermarket, which is basically where we are with our 3rd-generation equipment. They are all about selling mini ecigs in B&M, and if they can eliminate everything else, that will be just fine.

I'm not so sure about that. With them concentrating on the "cig-a-likes", I think it will leave room for the rest. The smaller eGo type systems will most likely take a hit, but for those of us using the box mods, Vamo, Provari, mechanicals, etc. we'll still be able to obtain those devices.

The vast majority of the public is completely unaware of the higher end devices. Big Tobacco will count on that ignorance to generate sales of their products. If I hadn't done my research, I'd have gone with what I see advertised (Blu). The majority will do exactly that. They'll see it advertised and go with that item, rather than doing research to see if there's anything else out there.