Is smoking a "choice" ?

[Berylanna]

Heavy Smoking May Be Genetic

I had heard about the genetic linked to those needing a cigarette within 5 minutes of getting up in the morning, and I had heard of studies showing that those need-to-smoke-first-thing people are by far the least likely to quit smoking.

This year I took a gene test for susceptibility to lung cancer and I scored low but not 0, meaning I guess that of these 3 genes I have one of them. I guess I can hope it's the first-thing-in-the-morning gene and not the lung-cancer gene.

But this raises the question: do smokers who switch to vaping REALLY have the choice to not do either one? Did the tobacco Control people successfully get the smokers who don't NEED to smoke (i.e. those pulled in ONLY by aggressive BT marketing and not by needing "vitamin N") to quit and the rest of us still smoking need the e-cig revolution if we want to live?

Does having a gene open it up for us to be a "protected class" instead of just stupid people who should be taxed, literally, to death?

 

[Rat2chat2]

I don't really know exactly what the question here is but I always smoked that first one of the day as soon as I could which meant I was a potty and puff kinda gal. Since I started vaping........I wait til I get my coffee poured. I don't feel an urgency like I did with cigarettes. But I still have the need.

 

[rothenbj]

I was the same way. In fact I was so bad that if I woke up ion the middle of the night, I'd grab a smoke before I fell back to sleep. It's not the same way anymore. I just have a snus under my lip most of the day and while I'm sleeping. I only use 4-5 portions a day, but they're in there four hours.

 

[Harlen]

Life is always a choice

 

[Giraut]

Life is always a choice

BS.

There are those who say smokers are entirely to blame for carrying on smoking and staying addicted - the "don't blame BT for your addiction" crowd. There are those who put the blame on BT for selling them a drug that's hard to wean from. And there are middle-of-the-road people like me who think they made a big mistake smoking their first cigarette (their fault) but BT did all they could to get them to start in the first place, and then did all they could to keep them hooked. Shared blame.

I had a true choice not to smoke my first cigarette, and I took the wrong turn. And then I had a choice between quitting and craving nicotine forever, or not quitting and getting smoking-related diseases. Even now, I'm a slave to nicotine. I just found a healthier delivery method, is all. Yes, I have the option of eschewing nicotine entirely, but I know what it'll entail in my life.

Not much of a choice, now, is it?

To use a non-smoking analogy, you have a choice not to have a telephone. But practically, you don't really have a choice: everybody needs a telephone number.

So no, life isn't always a matter of choices.

 

[Jman8]

There are those who say smokers are entirely to blame for carrying on smoking and staying addicted - the "don't blame BT for your addiction" crowd.

I'm in that crowd, and I still smoke.

There are those who put the blame on BT for selling them a drug that's hard to wean from. And there are middle-of-the-road people like me who think they made a big mistake smoking their first cigarette (their fault) but BT did all they could to get them to start in the first place, and then did all they could to keep them hooked. Shared blame.

I'd like you to elaborate on all that BT did to get you to start and to keep you hooked. I welcome that discussion.

I had a true choice not to smoke my first cigarette, and I took the wrong turn. And then I had a choice between quitting and craving nicotine forever, or not quitting and getting smoking-related diseases.

If one of the choices was quitting but craving nicotine forever, I think you'd have a point. But plenty quit and don't crave. As a moderate smoker now, I rarely crave, and again I'm still smoking. When I quit cold turkey in the 90's, I very rarely craved during 8 years of not smoking. You make it seem like my experience is not possible. I would say quitting smoking or using it in moderation counters your take on the way things are with smoking.

Let's go ask all the vapers who are now ex-smokers if they crave smoking? Oh wait, this is where you'll say they still crave nicotine. But what about those vapers who have gone to 0 nic and then the ex-vapers/ex-smokers who no longer use at all? Plus all the others that have quit using nicotine by other methods?

To use a non-smoking analogy, you have a choice not to have a telephone. But practically, you don't really have a choice: everybody needs a telephone number.

Nobody needs a telephone number. People desire them to do the things they desire to do (namely communication). But it is possible to live on this planet without a telephone/phone number. Most people (that I know) choose otherwise.

 

[tommy2bad]

Course it's a choice, a choice that has the risk of addiction. But then again you can also choose to end the addiction. The difference is with ecigs we have the choice to continue the addiction without the risk being so high.
Yes I understand that not everyone can or wants to end the addiction, for some it a dependency. I chose to smoke, enjoyed smoking, no regrets apart from not having found vaping sooner. Love every cigarette, enjoyed all of them. Never once though I was addicted or forced or coaxed into smoking.
As to being genetically inclined to smoking, maybe I am, maybe I'm genetically inclined to like sweet things, salty things, alcoholic things. So what the trick is to enjoy them without it becoming harmful. Moderation isn't some magic number all of us fit, it varies from person to person, your moderation is my excess and my moderate drinking is someone else's alcoholism.

 

[stevegmu]

I drank alcoholically for several years. It is in my genes. I sought treatment- not through medication, but a 12 step program. I quit drinking for 6 years. Now I can enjoy beers or drinks, although I only drink on vacation. While I have the gene for alcoholism, it is now my choice as to when or how much I drink. I don't crave a drink, even though I only drink every 6 months, or so. Should I have received special treatment because I have a gene which gives me the propensity to be an alcoholic? No. In the end taking a drink and drinking alcoholically was still a choice...same with cigarettes or vaping... I certainly don't blame the manufacturers of alcoholic beverages, nor tobacco companies for my poor decisions...

 

[Bernard Marx]

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." (or not, he said cryptically)

 

[DetraMental]

I really hate when some one presumes to know the answers about every one. Definitely a pet peeve. BS for sure!

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

You can't decide to stop your heart from beating, you will take your next breath no matter how long you try to hold it, the rest is choice.

Becoming an addict is a choice, deciding to overcome that addiction is difficult, more so for some, less so for others; still it is a choice, a decision, an option we all have.

How you live your life is up to you. While genetics may well make it harder on you to end your addiction on nicotine those genetics do not make it impossible in any way.

The fact of the matter is while nobody is genetically equal, genetics do not make you buy a nicotine delivery system of any type, that is your decision.

Not ingesting nicotine will not kill you, at most you'll be a nasty person, maybe have some other particularly harmless other side effects, and the craving.

Nobody will discount that the craving is not very strong, proof of that is easy to find just stop cold and see for yourself. Yet and still, you must act of your own free will to satisfy that craving.

So yes, smoking is a choice, a choice that most of us made once upon a time, a choice some of us decided to not make in switching to E-cigarettes, and a choice some of us are making includes choosing to wean off of nicotine.

For me, the addiction to nicotine was a choice made out of my desire to be like others (mostly a pretty girl), and not one I would make today. Among the stupid choices I've made in my life smoking tops the list. Followed shortly by getting married to the wrong woman (that choice took 13 years to correct).

If you like smoking, and accept the risk involved, by all means have at it, same for anything else you do. Just remember you do have a choice.

Maurice

 

[Berylanna]

For me it was a very powerful antidepressent long before BP had decent antidepressants. ONE got me hooked. Thank goodness I never tried a stronger stimulant. Caf and nic do it for me, but possibly because I didn't try an illegal one. That's why I said 'vitamin N', especially since nicotine is turning out to be a bit of a wonder drug that got ignored for years because of the stigma. ADD, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and quite a few other illnesses are signficantly improved by nicotine, and studies show it enhances performance just like caffeine does. You see joke cartoons where people have an IV running to them from a coffee maker.

However, that the most inveterate can't-quit smokers will choose to die younger rather than have a nasty life for years and years.

So I don't think we need to buy the idea that we're awful because we're "addicted" (non-impairing substances are not 'addictive' by the strictest definition of addiction. Dependency is not the same when the thing you're dependent upon is beneficial rather than harmful.)

SMOKE is addictive AND harmful.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I'm not discounting that nicotine has its good qualities, and you have a choice to use nicotine for those qualities if you so desire. It is still a choice.

Maurice

 

[Kent C]

Course it's a choice, a choice that has the risk of addiction. But then again you can also choose to end the addiction. The difference is with ecigs we have the choice to continue the addiction without the risk being so high.
Yes I understand that not everyone can or wants to end the addiction, for some it a dependency. I chose to smoke, enjoyed smoking, no regrets apart from not having found vaping sooner. Love every cigarette, enjoyed all of them. Never once though I was addicted or forced or coaxed into smoking.
As to being genetically inclined to smoking, maybe I am, maybe I'm genetically inclined to like sweet things, salty things, alcoholic things. So what the trick is to enjoy them without it becoming harmful. Moderation isn't some magic number all of us fit, it varies from person to person, your moderation is my excess and my moderate drinking is someone else's alcoholism.

Close to my view on almost all points. I loved smoking and I like nicotine in the bloodstream for focus and (even though they say this is false) relaxing. I have no intent to go to zero nic, although I'm down from 24mg when starting to around 8mg now. I like the smoke/vapor in my environment. I've said if patches and gum smoked (or vaped) they might work

I think the genetics is questionable - it might present an inclination but choice rules. Remember the big deal made out of XXY chromosomes? Lots of programs, CSI's and articles on it, then it turned out not to be the case.

 

[Rossum]

I had heard about the genetic linked to those needing a cigarette within 5 minutes of getting up in the morning, and I had heard of studies showing that those need-to-smoke-first-thing people are by far the least likely to quit smoking.
[....]
Does having a gene open it up for us to be a "protected class" instead of just stupid people who should be taxed, literally, to death?

Within 5 minutes? Bladder willing, I'd have one before even getting out of bed, and if it wasn't willing, I'd stagger over to the john, sit down (I'm a guy!) and light one up. No-smoking hotel rooms were out of the question and utterly unacceptable.

However, I'll pass on creating yet another protected class or being considered a member thereof, thanks!

 

[Bernard Marx]

I really hate when some one presumes to know the answers about every one. Definitely a pet peeve. BS for sure!

If you are referring to me I am sorry. If not, I apologize for taking up your time.

 

[Bernard Marx]

In case you were referring to me I would like to explain myself: For many decades before Chantix it was widely accepted in Psychiatric circles that most behavior was determined by repressed sexual urges. (No Kidding) This was called Psychoanalytic Theory and it's principal missionary was Sigmund Freud. He practiced medicine with the understanding that certain symbolic archetypes (a cigar for instance) represented these subconscious sexual 'repressions.' This was way before the first psychoactive medication was discovered and the medical community decided that they had all of the answers based on a biological assumption of mental illness. "A cigar is a cigar" is a very pathetic little joke I made to attempt to poke a little fun at a branch of medicine that, even to this day, is conducting itself as if it had any answers to really anything.

 

[supertrunker]

5 minutes? i just swapped vaping for smoking, so the first thing i do in the morning is have a vape. My routines are the same and that's why it's easy.

I don't think you can pin genetics on it, but rather familiarity. When i was a child my parents smoked and so did the family doctor. It was really a rite of passage and a choice i made. I knew it was dangerous and that added to the appeal. Until i got older and realised that wheezing is not a sign of health.

Could i have just stopped? Tried that didn't we? I'm not so stupid as to think that i have escaped 30 years of smoking scott free, but i'm pretty sure that i am no longer damaging my chances of making retirement intact.

T

 

[skoony]

hi every one,
first of all i would like to say this is a very interesting discussion. having said that to make any headway one must understand first of all, what is addiction? the classical definition is, habit plus harm is addiction. habit with no harm is not. it may be a good or bad habit but, its not addiction. then one must understand that just because some thing has been proven addicting does not mean one will get addicted to it. amount over time consumed has nothing to do with it. we have all heard," i quit cold turkey,no problem,you just lack will power." the chances are unless they went through withdrawal, and many claim to have not, they did not have a physical addiction. for some though a addiction will develope. this goes for any addicting substance,(insert any thing you can think of here.) addiction is addiction. many will quit either because they get tired of it,or realise the potential dangers,or from the urging of a loved one or professional. most with mild to medium withdrawal symptoms. some will experience heavy withdrawal. the small percentage like the ones who smoked all there life, even after being diagnosed with life threatening illness are much like the classic #*&@ addict we have seen pictures of represent what is actually a small percentage of any group that uses a addictive substance. some where in between all of this is where we are. nicotine may not be addictive. The Great Nicotine Myth
whether it is or isn't is another post. clearly the use of smokeless products is magnitudes of order so much healthier than the use of conventional tobacco products that this debate would be laughable if it were not for whats at stake.
the bottom line is the use of nicotine in and of itself is not an addiction.

regards
mike