Is the MVP v2 a true passthrough?

[sark666]

I know the MVP v1 wasn't but is the 2? I'm sure most know what I mean but just to clarify a true passthrough isn't using the battery at all when plugged in and the user is vaping. Yes with the mvp 2 you'll probably be rarely in a situation where the battery is completely dead but I think more devices should have true passthrough especially when the battery isn't replaceable and extends the life time of the product. If you're indoors and near a power source, why not use that instead of your battery?

For ex, my first device is an eroll. I would use it at work and have two erolls which I'd rotate through the pcc all day. I'd see the pcc go from green to red, green to red, as it's charging the eroll obviously from the pcc battery and not from the usb port even though it's plugged in. When I'm chain vaping that's putting 8 hours on the pcc everyday.

How expensive can it be to add true passthrough? If the MPV v2 is not a true passthrough like the V1 does anyone know devices that are?

I found this one from another post

GotVapes AMiGo VV Mini eGo Pass Through 3.0-4.8 - Stainless [gv-AMIGO-minipassthrough-STNLS] - $17.95 : GotVapes.com, E-cigarette Supplies - Atomizers Cartomizers Mods Juice and more

now this device is a passthrough only and doesn't have a battery at all. I guess I'm asking do any of the battery variants support true passthrough?

 

[DetraMental]

I use it as a pass-through. I bought a longer cable and it works great.

 

[sark666]

I know you can use it as a passthrough, you can use the innokin itaste v3 as a passthrough as well, but it's not a true passthrough in that you are not using the ac power directly for vaping but rather it charges the battery and you are using the battery for vaping, shortening the life of the battery. And if the battery was completely dead the passthrough functionality wouldn't work until there was a bit of a charge. Given that the v1 and the itaste v3 are not true passthroughs I doubt the v2 is as well, but I was curious. With a true passthrough, it wouldn't matter if the battery was completely dead.

Actually the only true passthrough device I can find was that one I linked previously.

 

[p.opus]

The only "true" passthrough device that I know of that also uses a battery is the ProVari. The optional passthrough module is an extra 70 bucks and you have to remove the battery to use it.

A typical LiIon battery loses roughly 10 percent capacity per year, at rest. Also Li-Ion batteries are rated to between 300 to 500 charges. and usually have roughly a 300 charge cycle life before but a charge cycle is determined as a charge from complete discharge to fully charged. So if you only discharge it 50% then your charge cycles increase to 600.

Even after 250 "complete" charge cycles, the battery degradation is only around 20 to 25%. So it's not as if the battery will completely die after 300 cycles

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

If battery life were the ONLY determining factor, then even MVP2's or VV3 would be able to last years before the battery degraded to the point that the passthrough function completely failed.

Of course this is just theoretical. The MVP 1 was released in 2012 and the MVP 2 in 2013. There are still MVP1's that are out there and working just fine. The MVP 1 has not been around long enough to find one that died due to reaching it's discharge limit. Failed units out there have failed due to reasons OTHER than natural death of the Li-Po cell (internal short, bad fire button, liquid in the system, etc...)

I guess the question is how long to you expect a 40 to 65 dollar mod to last? Theoretically it's a pretty safe bet to expect a couple of years out of these devices before they completely fail to hold a charge, making the passthrough unusable. You are most likely going to kill it some other way.

 

[vaperature]

Short but sweet: no, it's not a true passthrough. The MVP will take much longer to charge if you are using it while charging it.

 

[sark666]

I guess the question is how long to you expect a 40 to 65 dollar mod to last? Theoretically it's a pretty safe bet to expect a couple of years out of these devices before they completely fail to hold a charge, making the passthrough unusable. You are most likely going to kill it some other way.

Point taken, I guess it's the trend of throwaway tech that may be perfectly functional but because of a failing battery. As an example, I have a google nexus 7 tablet (2012 version). They say they charge for about 2 years as well. Well, this summer is 2 years. How long do I expect a $249 device to last? Point being, my tablet performs great and saw no reason to buy the 2013 version when it came out, and it'll seem like a bit of a shame if an otherwise functional tablet is now useless.

It's the same when I use my tablet at home, I plug it in, but it's running off the battery as well. I guess I thought why not just make all these devices true passthroughs from the get-go. But from that comment on the provari maybe it isn't as simple as I want it to seem.

So points taken. I may get one of those little passthroughs just to have at work.

I wanted to add, I saw this comment on a review site:

(I prefer to fully charge it before use, but it's nice to know I can vape while it re-charges, if it ever comes to that. Battery life may degrade more quickly if used in pass-through mode,too often...)

Is this person correct? Why would pass through mode degrade the battery quicker vs charging and using?

 

[p.opus]

Is this person correct? Why would pass through mode degrade the battery quicker vs charging and using?

I'm no battery expert. A comment in battery university suggests that it might.

"A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current. A parasitic load confuses the charger by depressing the battery voltage and preventing the current in the saturation stage to drop low. A battery may be fully charged, but the prevailing conditions prompt a continued charge. This causes undue battery stress and compromises safety."

Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries

The question is, when you vape while charging, is this called a "parasitic load". I'm not sure. Some people tell you it is. Some people say it is not.

Everything I have read leads be to believe that vaping while charging is a parasitic load... I use an MVP and it has such a high capacity that I don't ever need to use the USB passthrough. I simply have two MVP's I use one constantly for two days, and then charge it while I use the other one. It's one of the reasons I went from the VV3 to the MVP. I found myself using the USB passthrough of the vv3 at work.

But again we are looking at a vv3 that you can find for 25 to 50 bucks, or an MVP that you can find for between 40 to 65 bucks.

I have no reason to believe that my devices will not last at least a year. With a 300 dollar tablet or a 500 dollar iPhone then battery life would be a huge concern with me.

65 bucks? That's 18 cents a day.... I think I can handle that. Heck, I spend more than that in 2 weeks on my lunch.

 

[sark666]

Thanks again for the info, good post. And again you are right, from a price standpoint it's not too much of a concern. Your mvp's with the larger capacity should definitely last at least a year. I guess I thought if a vv 3 was someone's daily driver and given the small battery charged it twice a day day it may be not holding a good charge in 6 months. It would be nice to think once it no longer can hold a charge that it could be retired to desk duty and not just garbage. But as I said earlier maybe it's a significant change to the inner workings of these devices to make them a true passthrough. But if it wasn't a significant change, it would be nice if all devices that have micro usb connections to operate as a true passthrough instead of potentially causing a parasitic load and further shortening the life of the battery.

 

[p.opus]

Thanks again for the info, good post. And again you are right, from a price standpoint it's not too much of a concern. Your mvp's with the larger capacity should definitely last at least a year. I guess I thought if a vv 3 was someone's daily driver and given the small battery charged it twice a day day it may be not holding a good charge in 6 months. It would be nice to think once it no longer can hold a charge that it could be retired to desk duty and not just garbage. But as I said earlier maybe it's a significant change to the inner workings of these devices to make them a true passthrough. But if it wasn't a significant change, it would be nice if all devices that have micro usb connections to operate as a true passthrough instead of potentially causing a parasitic load and further shortening the life of the battery.

You are correct, but realize that even after the 300 charge limit, battery university states that the decrease in capacity is only approximately 20 to 25 percent. So while noticable, I don't think you would wake up 6 months from now and find the passthrough to be useless.

I did relegate my VV3 as a backup for work and pif'ed my other two vv3's. Mainly because I had two MVP's. If I had three vv3's in rotation, then I still think I'd be ok for a year or more.

I know what you mean. It would be nice if there was a software switch that allowed you to pass the charging current either to the battery or directly to the regulator circuit. This would lengthen the life quite a bit, and even at 30 bucks a true vv/vw passthrough would be worth it.

I'm not sure how much more real estate and cost this would add to the device though. And since it's priced to be a disposable unit, it may have been a simple decision to lower the price point to something that can be easily replaced, vice something that will last longer......

 

[PaulBHC]

I just ordered this from Desert Vapes .com, a VV ego passthru usb for 12.95

The eGo-VV USB passthroughs allows you to choose from 4 different voltages with the click of a button. (3.0v-Blue, 3.6v-Pink, 4.2v-Red and 4.8v-Green) Simply press the button 3 times in a row to scroll though your vaping options. Plugs directly into any standard POWERED USB device. Compatible with all eGo/510 threaded atomizers, cartomizers and clearomizers.

 

[edyle]

The only "true" passthrough device that I know of that also uses a battery is the ProVari. The optional passthrough module is an extra 70 bucks and you have to remove the battery to use it.

A typical LiIon battery loses roughly 10 percent capacity per year, at rest. Also Li-Ion batteries are rated to between 300 to 500 charges. and usually have roughly a 300 charge cycle life before but a charge cycle is determined as a charge from complete discharge to fully charged. So if you only discharge it 50% then your charge cycles increase to 600.

Even after 250 "complete" charge cycles, the battery degradation is only around 20 to 25%. So it's not as if the battery will completely die after 300 cycles

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

If battery life were the ONLY determining factor, then even MVP2's or VV3 would be able to last years before the battery degraded to the point that the passthrough function completely failed.

Of course this is just theoretical. The MVP 1 was released in 2012 and the MVP 2 in 2013. There are still MVP1's that are out there and working just fine. The MVP 1 has not been around long enough to find one that died due to reaching it's discharge limit. Failed units out there have failed due to reasons OTHER than natural death of the Li-Po cell (internal short, bad fire button, liquid in the system, etc...)

I guess the question is how long to you expect a 40 to 65 dollar mod to last? Theoretically it's a pretty safe bet to expect a couple of years out of these devices before they completely fail to hold a charge, making the passthrough unusable. You are most likely going to kill it some other way.

Whoah!!! Never heard about that before!!! And I'm sure I've asked a few times about a battery container that could plug in and function without having batteries!

I'm gonna look that one up! Thanks.

 

[edyle]

Yep, that looks workable. You take the battery out, put the module in and plug in to 120V. Neat.

 

[twgbonehead]

I know the MVP v1 wasn't but is the 2? I'm sure most know what I mean but just to clarify a true passthrough isn't using the battery at all when plugged in and the user is vaping. Yes with the mvp 2 you'll probably be rarely in a situation where the battery is completely dead but I think more devices should have true passthrough especially when the battery isn't replaceable and extends the life time of the product. If you're indoors and near a power source, why not use that instead of your battery?

For ex, my first device is an eroll. I would use it at work and have two erolls which I'd rotate through the pcc all day. I'd see the pcc go from green to red, green to red, as it's charging the eroll obviously from the pcc battery and not from the usb port even though it's plugged in. When I'm chain vaping that's putting 8 hours on the pcc everyday.

How expensive can it be to add true passthrough? If the MPV v2 is not a true passthrough like the V1 does anyone know devices that are?

I found this one from another post

GotVapes AMiGo VV Mini eGo Pass Through 3.0-4.8 - Stainless [gv-AMIGO-minipassthrough-STNLS] - $17.95 : GotVapes.com, E-cigarette Supplies - Atomizers Cartomizers Mods Juice and more

now this device is a passthrough only and doesn't have a battery at all. I guess I'm asking do any of the battery variants support true passthrough?

FastTech has these ones
$5.58 Variable Voltage USB Passthrough for E-Cigarette - silver at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
$5.58 Variable Voltage USB Passthrough for E-Cigarette at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

 

[sark666]

Thanks for the link. Cheap enough that I'll order a few. But the more I think about it I'm surprised there aren't a few no battery devices on the market. It seems there's this 5dollar job that'll probably last a month and a 200 dollar provari with a 70 dollar add-on.

For myself I stepped out at work to smoke and at home I stepped out to smoke, neither I have to do with vaping. Of course we'll always need an on the go device, but if there was a well made 30-50 dollar device that was meant to be plugged in vv, vw and all the bells and whistles, I'd be all over that. It would beat thinking about batteries and our backups when at home.

 

[Rossum]

It's tough to make a no-battery pass-through that will work well off USB power. Do the math. USB supplies 5V, and most USB ports won't supply more than 500 mA. That's 2.5 watts. Without some kind of storage (or a USB power source that can deliver considerably more than the standard 500 mA), you're not going to get a very satisfying vape.

What would make all kinds of sense to me would be a pass-through that ran off of 12V (in a car). You can also get 12V wall-warts dirt cheap, or you could tap an unused floppy or CD connector in your desktop PC.

 

[sark666]

I meant to say that in my previous post, with the 5 dollar job most are saying don't plug it into your computer or risk frying the port (although some seem to do it without issue) I say scrap the USB connector altogether and have it plug into an outlet. It should work for ages if well built as its not going to get tossed around (unless using it in a car). And for people who drive and vape, wouldn't it be nice after a long drive and your portables batteries are still topped up as you weren't using them at all?

Anyway, I'm new to vaping so maybe there's some aspect I'm not seeing, but I'd be all over a well built device that would offer this.

And if it were USB, I believe powered USB hubs can supply enough power

 

[Rossum]

I meant to say that in my previous post, with the 5 dollar job most are saying don't plug it into your computer or risk frying the port

In principle, that shouldn't happen. A USB port is supposed to detect an over-current condition and shut down power.

And for people who drive and vape, wouldn't it be nice after a long drive and your portables batteries are still topped up as you weren't using them at all?

That's why all my "mods" have USB charging. I can plug them in while I'm driving if I think it's necessary (but it generally isn't).

And if it were USB, I believe powered USB hubs can supply enough power

Much depends on the hub. Some (but certainly not all) can support more than the standard 500 mA on some of their ports.

 

[edyle]

Thanks for the link. Cheap enough that I'll order a few. But the more I think about it I'm surprised there aren't a few no battery devices on the market. It seems there's this 5dollar job that'll probably last a month and a 200 dollar provari with a 70 dollar add-on.

For myself I stepped out at work to smoke and at home I stepped out to smoke, neither I have to do with vaping. Of course we'll always need an on the go device, but if there was a well made 30-50 dollar device that was meant to be plugged in vv, vw and all the bells and whistles, I'd be all over that. It would beat thinking about batteries and our backups when at home.

Yeah I got 3 of the vv usb mini passthroughs; the biggest problem is just like with batteries when liquid gets down inside the 510 connector; I'm using adapters on them to help isolate;

but since i got 2 vw battery tubes i haven't been using them much- only for dry burning.


there isn't a vw cord yet, but there is the vamo v5 control head; with that maybe I will make up my own usb-to-510 cord and screw it on the head to make my own vw plugin.

 

[edyle]

It's tough to make a no-battery pass-through that will work well off USB power. Do the math. USB supplies 5V, and most USB ports won't supply more than 500 mA. That's 2.5 watts. Without some kind of storage (or a USB power source that can deliver considerably more than the standard 500 mA), you're not going to get a very satisfying vape.

What would make all kinds of sense to me would be a pass-through that ran off of 12V (in a car). You can also get 12V wall-warts dirt cheap, or you could tap an unused floppy or CD connector in your desktop PC.

I use usb passthru no problems; plus i have a 2A usb to 120v adapter from radio shack but i never use it at high voltage anyway

 

[Rossum]

I use usb passthru no problems; plus i have a 2A usb to 120v adapter from radio shack but i never use it at high voltage anyway

Sure, if you use it with a power 2A USB power source, then you've got 10 watts. That's enough for a satisfying vape with most toppers. But plug it into a port that can only provide the standard 500 mA and let us know how well it works.