is vaping the new smoking?

[TropicalBob]

It's one thing to ingest a substance and another to inhale it. Your stomach is a lot tougher than your lungs. My concerns -- not really what I'd call fears -- are about inhaling vaporized substances that have never been tested for that use.

PG has been tested and has positive health consequences; nicotine has been and is being tested, with many known consequences; flavorings? Who knows. Just questions without answers, but with implications in their unknowns.

 

[Tallulah]

It's one thing to ingest a substance and another to inhale it. Your stomach is a lot tougher than your lungs. My concerns -- not really what I'd call fears -- are about inhaling vaporized substances that have never been tested for that use.

PG has been tested and has positive health consequences; nicotine has been and is being tested, with many known consequences; flavorings? Who knows. Just questions without answers, but with implications in their unknowns.

How long did you smoke tobacco to satisfy your addiction, Bob, I think it was a long time? Me, over 30 years, more than half my life.

Some 400,000 cigarettes, if I live as long as Tallulah Bankhead, I'll be damned lucky.

This is a last ditch effort for me, so I don't much care about "the long term effects" as concerns myself, but I sure do care as regards others on this forum, many of whom, apparently, are young enough to be my children (and whom I would smack the snot out of, for having taken up this terrible addiction.)

You're not a pessimist Bob, you're a realist, and I'm really glad you're here to keep us from flying off into la-la-land.

 

[deewal]

Well i don't know "exactly" what year it was when Sir Walter Raleigh bought tobacco from the New World to Europe and started this whole smoking thing off but it has to be about 450 years until "someone" linked it to Cancer. So it is naive to think that there could not be some unforseen consequences which may emerge in a few years time.
It's about 5 years since the e-cig as it is now was invented and i did'nt hear about them until about a year ago.
I have never heard of someone smoking tobacco for 5 years and then getting Cancer.
Unfortunately what Tbob said is bang on for me. I don't want it to be but i also feel a little uneasy about exactly what it is i am inhaling.
I could go on and on about this whole subject but it is pointless

 

[JustJulie]

I think there is a good chance the eliquids will be banned in the U.S. until further testing is done, but I'm hopeful that the personal vaporizers themselves will still be available, especially since there are a fair number of people who are vaping no nicotine solutions.

The reason why I think we're going to have problems is because nicotine is a drug and the flavorings have not been tested for long-term use as inhalants. It's really the nicotine that concerns me in terms of regulation, though. With the many strengths of eliquids out there, it's not easy to figure out exactly how much nicotine you're taking in unless you drip (and even then you have to think about it). I can see the government being uneasy about the possibility of nicotine overdoses and devices that allow for so much uncertainty in terms of the nicotine provided.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if some people (particularly new users) actually increased their nicotine intake with vaping. I strongly suspect that when I first started vaping, I was taking in more nicotine than my former smoking habit. I started off vaping high nicotine solutions and vaped almost continuously. I don't consider myself stupid, but I just didn't understand how to properly figure out how much nicotine I needed and how much I was inhaling.

But regardless of how it shakes out, I don't fool myself that this is safe. As others have stated, there is a big difference between eating something an inhaling it. My lungs are so damaged by 30 years of analog smoking that I know my lungs aren't operating as they should be. It is easier for me to breath, and my cough is gone, but I doubt my lungs are healthy enough to effectively clear the stuff I'm vaping, and stuff is left behind. The long-term effects of that, who knows.

But while I do have some uncomfortable thoughts about it, I can't help but think that vaping is better than smoking. We KNOW that many of the chemicals in tobacco when burned are carcinogenic . . . it's still an open question as to the flavorings in eliquids.

And the positives associated with my change to vaping are not insubstantial. I can breathe better, I don't smell, and I'm no logner a pariah having to go outside to satisfy my habit.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

And also... Julie... even though the vapor still needs testing, the absence of second hand smoke alone is HUGE. HUGE!

 

[JustJulie]

the absence of second hand smoke alone is HUGE. HUGE!

So. true, Lacey. Completely forgot to mention that. And that might be the single biggest reason that some anti-tobacco groups might not completely demonize e-smoking . . . and some may even come out in support, especially if there's a strong sense that people are drastically reducing or eliminating tobacco in favor of vaping.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Agreed. If their argument is truly about the health of those around the smoker, then this is something they will definitely not find fault with. There will always be those Crabby-Patties... but I think many will see this a great step in the right direction.

 

[e-pipeman]

There will be claims that nicotine is measurable in our "exhaust", that we encourage children to smoke "real" cigarettes by vaping, that we are gambling with our health by using e-liquid, that we are perpetuating addiction rather than "curing" it.

There will also be those who simply wish to stop people enjoying themselves, and they will find a libraryful of justifications for their priggish prohibitions.

 

[Silk]

One problem I see is, we are NEVER going to be measuring apples with apples. With regards to long terms of e-smoking - 99.99% of us will have been smokers of varying degrees, habits and even living standards (city poloution V countryside chemicals). So how will anyone ever truly know what is an effect of e-cigs, and what is a cumilation of what damage may have already been done, or an alchemy of catalysts from other outside influences?

Also Everyone here smokes or smoked in diferent ways, and as such they will vape diferently too. Some draw on them like they were trying to inhale all the air from a truck tyre in one go, while others puff away quietly as though they had an everlasting pipe (Guilty as charged m'lord) and like smoking, some of us will have diferent levels of resistance or immunity to what we inhale.

So the only way we will know for sure, is if a whole new army of vapers take it up, having never smoked (and no anti is going to be happy about that) and even then, we are all still taking in so many chemicals every day anyway - how can you be sure, unless you lock them in a controlled bubble.

As for whether it will ever take off? I think TB is about right when he says probably around the same level as cigar/pipe smokers. The whole thing is too much hassle for most, especially with leaking carts, short lived batteries, the overgenerous estimates by suplliers on things like cart life etc., etc.,.

One thing that might change that (given things not becoming illegal, and more reliable products coming out) might be a true classic/cult status movie with the stars vaping away in the most memorable scenes. Like it or not, these have been a major influence in our past. (distant and not so distant).

just my 2p

 

[Spikey]

One problem I see is, we are NEVER going to be measuring apples with apples. With regards to long terms of e-smoking - 99.99% of us will have been smokers of varying degrees, habits and even living standards (city poloution V countryside chemicals). So how will anyone ever truly know what is an effect of e-cigs, and what is a cumilation of what damage may have already been done, or an alchemy of catalysts from other outside influences?

Also Everyone here smokes or smoked in diferent ways, and as such they will vape diferently too. Some draw on them like they were trying to inhale all the air from a truck tyre in one go, while others puff away quietly as though they had an everlasting pipe (Guilty as charged m'lord) and like smoking, some of us will have diferent levels of resistance or immunity to what we inhale.

So the only way we will know for sure, is if a whole new army of vapers take it up, having never smoked (and no anti is going to be happy about that) and even then, we are all still taking in so many chemicals every day anyway - how can you be sure, unless you lock them in a controlled bubble.

As for whether it will ever take off? I think TB is about right when he says probably around the same level as cigar/pipe smokers. The whole thing is too much hassle for most, especially with leaking carts, short lived batteries, the overgenerous estimates by suplliers on things like cart life etc., etc.,.

One thing that might change that (given things not becoming illegal, and more reliable products coming out) might be a true classic/cult status movie with the stars vaping away in the most memorable scenes. Like it or not, these have been a major influence in our past. (distant and not so distant).

just my 2p

Silk, Tbob, Julie,

I began writing up a potential study on vaping and realized the same thing. We cannot judge the consequences and side effects of vaping without testing on NON-EX-SMOKERS! And since there really aren't any here... (save a few tobacco chewers) that study will be near impossible to do. I do know that they do some of these tests on rats and mice because their life span is shorter and things can affect them in a chorter time than they affect us. So although I am not sure how relevant animal studies will be... That will likely be a first step since we cannot make non-smokers take up vaping. As Silk said.. maybe in the next generation there will be vapers who never smoked... but I would not want my child to be the guinea pig of that experiment. I think it is fine as a substitute for smoking analogs and if there was a way to be sure it was safe... would be fun to do just for the hell of it (even with NO nic), BUT... I doubt we will ever get the studies done without bias because there aren't any NONsmokers vaping. SO.. in conclusion...

I am going to do it cause it is better than smoking. I have asthma and it took vaping to bring back my lung capacity. If vaping (VG) coated our lungs in a goo that prevented breathing.. I suspect I will figure that out soon cause I won't be able to breathe again. I have only been vaping about 6 or 7 weeks... but I feel great. If it were a matter of poisoning... some of the vapers out there would already be dead... so I doubt if that is an issue. If it is a long term condition we will arise at there is no way to tell but time. So let's wait it out... and I would always suggest that it is better to inhale nothing foreign into the lungs.. but I am just not that strong yet.

By the way.. I agree with voting Tbob as out ambassador on paper when we need to write to important governmment official Always well expressed Tbob and I knew that you were leaving this thread to avoind being a buzzkill... that is why you rock... you don't want to ruin anyone elses good time lol

 

[JJames68]

I switched to e-cigs because I know I can breath better, I have asthma, the new changes they made to analogs to make them fire safe pushed me to look on-line for a make your own cigarette option, and I found the e-cig, wont go back - but look forward to more advancements to make e-smoking easier, but I think this is the future, no second hand smoke, no stink, many flavors, I breath better, I think all that shounds good to me...

 

[yvilla]

Silk, followed up by Spikey, good points.

One thing that could be done though, is a longitudinal study following the health in key areas of matched groups of esmokers, smokers that keep smoking, smokers that quit without esmoking, and never smokers. That should give a good indication of the relative safety of esmoking.

 

[Silk]

One area of safety with regards to e-smoking over regular smoking, that does not get mentioned enough is the accidents/deaths caused by fire & careless dropping of cigarette butts.

The only thing that's gonna happen if you drop off to sleep with your e-cig in your mouth is when you roll over and poke it up your nose or in your ear.

The worst thing that might happen if you accidently chuck it out your car window (apart from hitting someone with a high speed heavy metal object ) is by causing a pile up due to you slamming your brakes on to go get it back. And if you use a USB and vape while driving, if you drop it, not only do you not have to worry about burning your suit, (or other important areas of the anatomy) but you can retrieve it by simply reeling it in.

So even indirectly, e-smokings gotta be a lot safer than red hot tubes of burning paper and plant matter.