Is WTA Snake oil or Not..?

[radiokaos]

Hey Gang,

Just wanted to get your honest input regarding a comment I saw on a review. The review was well written but a comment from a reader claims that we selling something that is not real, or misleading.

I would really like your honest thoughts and input. Does it compare to maceration extracts? Is aroma ejuice misleading anyone on our product? Do you get the same feeling from vaping "natural soaks" vs " wta eliquid"? Do you think its worth the extra money for WTA?

Like I said the review was nice and well written. Its the comment that troubles me and makes me ponder if that person is a different vendor / reviewer, uneducated, or maybe just bias.

You tell me and please be honest even if it hurts.

Aroma Ejuice G.I. Joe with WTA | Vaping Guides to the Electronic Cigarette

 

[beebopnjazz]

Well I personally think that while extracting natural tobaccos would have some WTA - there would be wildly different values dependent upon the tobacco, the extraction method, etc. your product achieves consistent values - companies/individuals making their own extracts aren't claiming the WTA as they don't want to invest in the process or alternatively claim their product has WTA without having any research to back it up, i.e. committing a fraud upon the consumer as their end product would vary between batches.

 

[radiokaos]

Well I personally think that while extracting natural tobaccos would have some WTA - there would be wildly different values dependent upon the tobacco, the extraction method, etc. your product achieves consistent values - companies/individuals making their own extracts aren't claiming the WTA as they don't want to invest in the process or alternatively claim their product has WTA without having any research to back it up, i.e. committing a fraud upon the consumer as their end product would vary between batches.

I'm glad you mentioned extracted or maceration. Here is a insightful note from a chemist and vaper with tons of experience behind his belt.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cco-nicotine-flavor-chemists-perspective.html

Soaking tobacco for nicotine and flavor - A chemists' perspective

by DVap , 06-27-2010 at 06:37 PM (2816 Views)

Here's a topic I've addressed a number of times in various threads, but I thought I might discuss it here.

What can one expect from soaking tobacco in various solvents (alcohol, PG, VG) to get some real tobacco flavor and/or nicotine?

As far as getting flavor, that's a pretty easy question. If you soak and get a result that you like (either as a liquid in itself or as a flavor additive to regular eliquid) and you don't mind the extra wear and tear on your attys, you've done good. (Assuming you accept that anything that involves soaking tobacco will be less "safe" than good clean regular e-liquid).

As far as getting an appreciable nicotine concentration, soak procedures are self-limiting. What I mean by this is simply that the more tobacco you soak (your nicotine source), the more solvent it's going to take to get nicotine to come out of the tobacco.

Here's a practical example:

You have 1 gram of tobacco. It's likely that this 1 gram of tobacco contains around 20 mg of nicotine. If you use 1 mL of PG to extract it, you could get as much as 20 mg/mL, right?

Wrong.

How much of the nicotine will come out? Maybe 50% if you're feeling generous, probably less. So now we're down from 20 mg/mL to 10 mg/mL. But what's this? When we add 1 mL of PG to 1 gram of tobacco, the tobacco just slurps up the PG.

So we add more PG, say 5 mL total. Now we've got some liquid on top to extract into.. but now we're putting that 10 mg nicotine (tops!) into 5 mL of PG, so we're down to 2 mg/mL and we've still made brown goo.

You see the problem.

Soaking is great for flavor but I feel that with soaking you get a lot of "stuff" with the maceration. There are some great suppliers that offer this eliquid and they are yummy, and have a big following. However, I think very little if any of the minor alkaloids are extracted via maceration or tobacco soaks. WTA extraction is a new breed and I think others fail to understand the detailed process of extraction. If it was as easy to just dump some tobacco in VG or PG and let it soak and call it WTA do you think other suppliers might do the same thing?

I'm sorry if I come off strong....I just want to spread the word that WTA is not the same as a soak by any means. There must be a reason why we have a real lab and chemists working for Aroma instead of some simple marketing ploy to get more customers. I think WTA has its place but its not for everyone. I also feel that WTA is labeled as the "magic bullet" which it is not. If it helps a vaper thats great but I WILL NEVER make any claims on its efficacy.

 

[beebopnjazz]

That's exactly my point there may be trace amounts but not calculable - furthermore it would only be a tobacco flavor.

 

[radiokaos]

That's exactly my point there may be trace amounts but not calculable - furthermore it would only be a tobacco flavor.

Thank you so much for your input. I'm so glad you can see that.

Do you think selling WTA is a marketing ploy?

 

[hairball]

I don't know about you all, buy I find WTA to be relaxing. I have a couple of small bottles that I only vape a little bit of in the evening. For me, it just a has a calming/unwinding affect.

 

[radiokaos]

I don't know about you all, buy I find WTA to be relaxing. I have a couple of small bottles that I only vape a little bit of in the evening. For me, it just a has a calming/unwinding affect.

Do you think its a placebo effect?

Do you feel a difference between WTA and other eliquids?

 

[hairball]

Do you think its a placebo effect?

Do you feel a difference between WTA and other eliquids?

It just has a relaxing affect...sorta mellowing. If I'm hyper after a long day, it just mellows me out. I don't vape a lot of it but about .5ml at 6V...I'm sure I'm taking in more of the WTA than others using an eGo.

 

[aaron fire]

I still smoke 3 or 4 cigarettes a day, along with vaping mostly non-WTA juices. When I want a smoke, but am unable to light up, I've used WTA to meet the need. In my limited experience, WTA is a fairly effective substitute, closer to an analog than I would have thought.

With regular juice, I can feel the nicotine, but with WTA, I feel something more satisfying.

I think WTA has an important part to play in the e-cigarette (r)evolution, and I hope it becomes more mainstream.

Judging from the Red Tail juice I've been using, WTA and VG work together very well. Along with the extract, I'd like to see VG as a common option.

 

[Stubby]

It's a con for sure. It's just pixel dust infused with the tears of Unicorns, with a wee bit of the ash from Merlins pipe.

 

[radiokaos]

It's a con for sure. It's just pixel dust infused with the tears of Unicorns, with a wee bit of the ash from Merlins pipe.

Ya know what the say about unicorns.

If you smoke a unicorn you get unihigh...

Of course I do not condone smoking unicorns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bmarley5780]

Me personally, WTA got me off the analogs. I only use your juice with WTA. My last analog was May 20, a Sunday. I first got a 510 around 4 years ago along with many, many bottles of high nic eliquid from all different vendors. I quit for 1 to 2 weeks many times but ALWAYS went back....

This coming Monday will be 6 weeks without a analog.
My friends(smokers) still come over (trigger) , I still drink my beer(s) (BIG trigger), I still cook on the grill (BIG trigger)....

I never felt the want/need to go back to analogs with WTA liquid in my carto!

Thank You!
-Joe

 

[kumquat]

Radio, I bought my first bottle from you guys last week and definitely notice the difference. It's no placebo and, yes, it's definitely calming. It doesn't create exactly the same effect as smoking an analog does, but it provides that calming effect which is entirely lacking from traditional niquid.

 

[hittman]

Jerry, I was thinking that Dvap had said before that the minor alkaloids were not extracted when doing a tobacco soak. I could be wrong. I thought that was discussed in the "are we getting it" thread a long time ago. However, if it was that easy then why wouldn't everyone be buying RYO tobacco and making their own. There's a lot more to it than soaking some tobacco in pg or vg.

Myself and others here know that WTA is the real thing and not a "novelty".

 

[karmakatie]

Snake oil....hardly!! I believe those that may believe it is "Snake Oil" are those very people who had no addiction or at least a serious one to the other minor alkaloids. For some of us there is a marked difference with the minor alkaloids not being stripped out of the extraction. As it has always been said WTA is NOT for everyone, period, if it works for you great, if it doesn't then please move on! Whatever happened to freedom of choice for the individual?

 

[Randyrtx]

I've eliminated Xanax from my "diet" since purchasing my first WTA E-Liquid. Snake Oil? If it is, keep it coming!

 

[snork]

From the very beginning you have made no claims about WTA, in fact you have consistently implored people to give strictly their own experiences without trying to influence them one way or another. The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive and based on that feedback you've moved to more production. If the feedback had been negative you certainly wouldn't be pushing it on us. It's all up to us.
Quite awhile back I quit analyzing what WTA does or doesn't do for me. I came to the absolute conclusion that I vape less with it, feel less fidgety and adore the throat hit. I don't think about it anymore in terms of efficacy; it's my favorite juice for many reasons and I'm willing to pay a premium for it.

[Edit: I can't comment on the maceration/soak vs. Laboratory extraction issue. I have no experience with a maceration and doubt I ever will.]

 

[Danousa]

Radio,
I am sure WTA is NOT a placebo. I can tell a bit of a difference between the WTA and the other e-juices. When I sampled the WTA for the first time I was amazed at the difference. I also had my wife try it (without telling her it was WTA). She is has a very sensitive palate and noticed the difference immediatley. She also mentioned it was more like an analog (she uses e-cigs too).
Comfort the little kid inside you that is screaming I am not making placebos. Be kind to the boy and explain that when the first man road a horse, many others probably complained about having to clean pu after it. YOU have a GREAT product! Stand proud of being a pioneer in an age where there are but a few.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I've never tried WTA, and I want to very badly. I'm a regular lurker here

I don't think you or anyone that's in support of WTA has ever made any outrageous claims or misrepresented anything. All we really have to go on is subjective experience, and if it works, it works.

I just wanted to also point out, coming from a medical point of view, that placebo isn't 'fake' or even modest in its effects. Its a very powerful thing! So I think its important to keep in mind that its almost impossible to subjectively decide whether something is placebo or not (its essentially an oxymoron), but again, there really is no choice as of now, and the conversation is therefore all the more important!

Keep brewing it!

 

[bmarley5780]

The comments on that "review" seems to have grown from this A.M. lol