It's not the nicotine...

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WarHawk-AVG

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"an error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it"

"Personal Vapers" or E-Cigs are a viable replacement for delivery of nicotine, just like the patches and gums, it just "resembles" smoking and allows those who developed the bad habit of oral fixation thru smoking to satisfy that urge.

I know everyone has seen all the reports over e-cigs the media is pumping out, many have bought into the falseness of the claims...it's time to break it down with common sense.

What 3 chemicals are found in cigarette smoking? In every single one no matter what brand, flavor, strength? In what ratios?

There were studies ordered by the government of tobacco companies to produce a list of the ratios.

http://www.econdataus.com/cigrs.html

Now what can you tell me about that list...take a close look at look at the levels and ratios of nicotine, tar, and carbon monoxide?

The amount of nicotine you actually get from the cigarette is between 5-15 times LESS than the other two chemicals individually, combined 10-30 times less, so what are you REALLY getting addicted to when you "burn a stinky?"

Now...ask yourself what are the effects of those chemicals on the human body after YEARS of use? What is the damage to your immune system with the constant stressing of it each time you smoke a cigarette for years, decades even, what does a healthy immune system do to cancer cells when they are found, what does a stressed or weakened immune system due to those stresses from the known chemicals in cigarettes?

Now...let's discuss these "e-cigarette" things
When they first came out in their infancy in there may have been problems..the government did a study and found in a handful of samples chemicals that can be harmful, what they didn't tell you is that in EVERY SINGLE one of those samples the 10-30 times the harmful chemicals WERE NOT THERE.

Over time, ingenious individuals found better products that didn't have those components that had the harmful chemicals that were found in the beginning yet most reports attacking e-cigs are based upon that early study. Technology has finally risen to allow those same ingenious individuals to create a device to deliver vaporized fluids containing small metered amounts of nicotine. Nichrome wire, high density Li Ion batteries.

Personal vapers e-juice NOW contains 4 separate elements, propylene glycol which can also be found in NUMEROUS products most of us use and ingest daily, it is not antifreeze even though some antifreeze's use it, guess what else is in antifreeze...dihydrogen monoxide...aka water.

The second is food grade artificial flavoring that does not contain Diacetyl which is a chemical found when heated can release harmful chemicals, and used in e-cig juice early on...thru the same ingenious experimentation they identified this problem and have removed that too, also anything using artificial flavoring...you guessed it...you consume daily, sometimes multiple times daily.

The third is pharmaceutical grade vegetable glycerine which also is found in many products used, consumed, and ingested daily.

Fourth being nicotine extract...which still allows personal vapers to get nicotine which is just another chemical stimulant similar to caffeine, in too much concentration can kill you, but due to ingenious and methodical measurements can be delivered in safe metered amounts just like analogs...but you guessed it WITHOUT the 10-30x the amount harmful chemicals found in cigarettes, you can actually get e-juice with no nicotine in it if you so choose

Those that claim personal vapers or "e-cigs" are JUST as harmful are being disingenuous or even downright wrong (maybe even paid to be wrong...hmmm) The budding personal vaper community doesn't have the media machine that those who want to see it stopped have

How can it be just as harmful when you are removing 10-30x the harmful chemicals from smoking, and comparing it to smoking, yet still getting that chemical stimulant, it would be like taking liquid concentrate caffeine (which you can buy in gallon jugs) and putting it in sparkling water and calling it a coffee product.

Governments and the FDA are looking to regulate and in some places even BAN personal vaping or the sale of its components because it "looks" like smoking even though it is almost NOTHING like smoking other than the small amounts of metered nicotine being delivered, there is no combustion, there is no tar, there is no carbon monoxide, there is no smoke how can it be a "tobacco" product or JUST AS BAD as smoking? It is an alternative form of nicotine delivery, same as patches, and gums that still can be bought over the counter or even on EBAY

Last time I checked, smoking cigarettes didn't become "not bad for you" just because the personal vaper or ecig hit the market.

I quit smoking because it is bad for you, I started vaping to get my nicotine because it is MUCH MUCH LESS bad for you!

It's not about just the nicotine...It has NEVER been about just the nicotine

Now with this information, you can choose to believe an error, or you can choose to correct it
http://casaa.org/
 
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WarHawk-AVG

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Like I said, I apologize for the brash way I introduced this, seems "sensational headlines" attract more attention

Even in the personal vaping community there are alot of misconceptions, some don't even know what the main dangers of cigarettes are (I truly didn't till I saw that list!!!!)...there is much more that needs to be on the list but this is a start...I'm a simple guy, highschool educated so I am in no way eloquent with my writing, I hope I got a point across without being too abrasive
 

Tvan

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Thanks WarHawk! That info will come in handy. I've already come across a couple people from being supportive to being not sure (not family). We need all of the info as possible.

I laugh because the one told me they were targeting kids with flavored juice. The same person that thought it really cool that I was vaping Swedish Fish a week earlier. If its in the news they feel it must be true.

Thanks to this forum I've learned a lot about vaping. I've learned a lot more about how this country is run media is used. It has opened my eyes and I'm not caring for what I've been seeing.
 

RosaJ

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Great post! I also think it's interesting when people keep saying "but we don't know what vg and flavorings will do to your body when you inhale it for an extended period of time." My answer to that is that we already know what the consequences are... just talk to a cake maker in a bakery who bakes and inhales flavors and vg all day long, day in and day out. Never heard any baker drop dead because of it. It is common knowledge that pg is used in inhalers for asthma and I haven't heard anyone developing ill effects from using it (nor the pharmaceutical companies warning people not to use them).
 

WarHawk-AVG

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Exactly...teens vaping...not awesome...(Id rather it be an 18 year old thing) but hey...they ain't getting all that tar and carbon monoxide (that whole 10 to 30 TIMES mentioned above) that "WE" used to get, and we KNOW what the long term effect those two chemicals that are in each and every cigarette do to the human body

And OMG a battery exploded...one out of a million blew up...how many forest fires each year or houses burned down each year are there...oh I dunno, enough for the government to make that stupid "safety cigarette" that goes out on its own if you don't keep puffing on it.

It's like someone said on another thread...they ignore the "old way" just to demonize personal vapers

The ONLY way to compare them is to hold them side by side...otherwise it almost IS like telling a kid "you just go ahead and get a pack of Marlboro 100's instead of one of them deadly bad e-ciggy thingys"
 
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WarHawk-AVG

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Whom exactly are we yelling at here?

I'd also like to point out....that "we" are FAR better off as a tobacco product then as a medical device. A 3rd option was not available. "Young"(completely relative) vapors seem to miss that point.
Just hanging my head out the window and yelling "I'm mad as hell and I ain't taking it any more"

Anyone wanting to listen can read it
 

WarHawk-AVG

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the only problem is now we have the internet.
people are starting to wake up.
they cant hide behind a willing media,avid anti-smokers and the children anymore.
we all know what this is about.
its about the money,and only the money,and did i mention the money?

regards
mike
ding ding ding

Now you're gettin' it...follow the money...ALWAYS follow the money
 
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...ratios of nicotine, tar, and carbon monoxide...so what are you REALLY getting addicted to when you "burn a stinky?"

Nicotine.

In and of it's self pure nicotine has a significantly low addiction potential.
However, when combined with monoamine oxidase inhibitors, the addiction profile skyrockets.

In the simplest terms, MAOIs supercharge that nicotine feeling and leave you craving more. (MAOs flush the synaptic cleft of leftover, unbound neurotransmitters. When the alkaloid MAOIs naturally found in tobacco reach the bloodstream, they effectively stop the reputake of the unused neurotransmitters, allowing them to float around in the synaptic cleft and continue to bind to receptors. This both extends the duration of the subsequent dopaminergic action, and leaves the brain constantly requesting more because of the slower falloff.)

Pure nicotine has an addiction profile similar to that of caffeine. I can only find the study that compares cigarette nicotine to other drugs as the moment, but there was another a while back that compared nicotine both, with and without MAOIs, to five other drugs.

Another interesting fact is that most major tobacco companies (with the exceptions of american spirits and a few others) add additional beta-carbolines to cigarette tobacco in order to increase the addictiveness. This is why hitting an american spirit does not feel nearly as fulfilling as hitting a camel light, the 'rush' doesn't onset as quickly, and the relief is shorter lived.

A really scary thought, for me personally, would be if e-liquid makers to start adding MAOIs to their juice without disclosing it. It would instantly put vaping addiction up there with cigarette addiction. (Though still significantly less harmful)

(also your body doesn't have tar receptors, and while it has CO detection receptors - can't remember the name - they aren't dopaminergic)
 
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WarHawk-AVG

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Nicotine.

In and of it's self pure nicotine has a significantly low addiction potential.
However, when combined with monoamine oxidase inhibitors, the addiction profile skyrockets.

In the simplest terms, MAOIs supercharge that nicotine feeling and leave you craving more. (MAOs flush the synaptic cleft of leftover, unbound neurotransmitters. When the alkaloid MAOIs naturally found in tobacco reach the bloodstream, they effectively stop the reputake of the unused neurotransmitters, allowing them to float around in the synaptic cleft and continue to bind to receptors. This both extends the duration of the subsequent dopaminergic action, and leaves the brain constantly requesting more because of the slower falloff.)

Pure nicotine has an addiction profile similar to that of caffeine. I can only find the study that compares cigarette nicotine to other drugs as the moment, but there was another a while back that compared nicotine both, with and without MAOIs, to five other drugs.

Another interesting fact is that most major tobacco companies (with the exceptions of american spirits and a few others) add additional beta-carbolines to cigarette tobacco in order to increase the addictiveness. This is why hitting an american spirit does not feel nearly as fulfilling as hitting a camel light, the 'rush' doesn't onset as quickly, and the relief is shorter lived.

A really scary thought, for me personally, would be if e-liquid makers to start adding MAOIs to their juice without disclosing it. It would instantly put vaping addiction up there with cigarette addiction. (Though still significantly less harmful)

(also your body doesn't have tar receptors, and while it has CO detection receptors - can't remember the name - they aren't dopaminergic)
Who says they haven't???

Big tobacco getting into e-cigs...you don't think for a second they haven't been doing the "thinker pose" trying to figure out a way to make people want "their product" more?
 
Seriously, the fact that big tobacco is getting deeply involved with vaping, taking the if you can't beat them, join them, rob them, kill them slowly attitude is why I am working towards 0 nic. My addiction is the hand to mouth oral thing anyway, lol.
BUT... I do have a few niggles of concern about kids. Example: My child. All of her life she has begged and pleaded for me to quit smoking, saying how gross, I stink, they stink, they make HER stink, etc. Now, as I am filling the room with the smell of Tootsie Rolls and extremely juicy pear, she and her friends are EXTREMELY interested.
Just sayin', lol. I'm certainly not gonna stop. Poor kids.
Also, I'm reasonably intelligent and use common sense and do research. My favorite flavors are the ones that most likely would contain...gasp... diacetyl (sp?). Right now I am having to rely on trusting a complete stranger who wants my money when they say they are using flavorings that do not contain that. However, not all people research, or have common sense and know nothing about it or even to ask/check. I don't think ignorance or lack of information makes it ok for someone to ingest a product that could injure them, and people who are making and selling (and profiting from) this stuff (Juice Vendors) are eventually going to need to be accountable for what they are selling. BTW, the diacetyl is just the only example that came to mind. Time and research may uncover a "definitely not a good idea to vape" list and I somehow think it should be easier to find out about for the general public than concerns about my favorite flavors were for me. IMO. The whole thing above about the MAOI's, etc really is something to consider. There may come a time when the only concern is not just what's in flavorings, sweeteners, but has there been anything intentionally additionally added and not disclosed. Sad, but true.
 
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Burnie

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Ecigs is just one of a very long list of "The emperor (government) has no clothes".

I read an article over 30 years ago about brainwashing and found out that you can tell someone the absolute truth and yet make them believe a lie. It's all about what's said, how it's said and what's left out.

If you tell a lie, over and over and make people BELIEVE YOU BELIEVE IT, they Will Believe it also.
 
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