Liberty Stix Response To FDA Lab Analysis

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This was our officical response to the FDA Lab Analysis, in case anyone was interested.
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Liberty Stix Response to Summary of Results: Laboratory Analysis of Electronic Cigarettes Conducted By FDA
Dear Valued Customers,
Yesterday, July 22nd, 2009, the FDA issued a summary of an analysis of a few samples of electronic cigarettes. This analysis was based primarily on two Chinese origin cartridge formulas, namely from Smoking Everywhere and njoy. Consequently, these formulas of Chinese origin were given to the FDA’s Center for Drug Evaluation, Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis. Upon analyzing these Chinese formulas, the findings were not in the favor of these two companies. Please click the link below to view the findings.

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm173146.htm
Essentially, we interpret the FDA analysis to state this:
The lab report states that they found a chemical (diethylene glycol) at a miniscule amount of less than 1% from 1 specific cartridge, from 1 specific flavor, from 1 specific brand (No other cartridges had any of this chemical). This cartridge was sourced from the same brand (Smoking Everywhere) that is currently suing the FDA for stopping their shipments.
Secondly the other chemicals found that are apparently toxic are nitrosamine's. Nitrosamines are nicotine derivatives that are already found, and known to be, in real cigarettes, and these were only found in LESS than HALF of the cartridges tested.
This means that about half of the cartridges tested contained NO TOXIC SUBSTANCES and 99% tested were safer than real cigarettes. However, the media, as well as the FDA are marketing the conclusions that consumers should be warned that all e-cigarettes are dangerous. Nevertheless, when you read the report this is not in their conclusion.

It states "Due to the variability among products, this analysis should not be used to draw conclusions about what substances are or are not present in particular electronic cigarettes or brands of electronic cigarettes."

So the conclusion they came to is that not all e-cigarette brands are bad, and out of half the cartridges tested, more than 50% contained no toxins at all, and 99% tested were safer than cigarettes.
At Liberty Stix, we believe we are in that 99% based on the fact that our nicotine formula is Made In America, with 100% pharmaceutical grade ingredients. We are unique to this industry since our formula for our cartridges is made, mixed, and filled in the USA.
In a recent article in the Cleveland Plain Dealer, our interpretation of these results was published. The following was my response that was written in the Plain Dealer:

Sebastian Cangemi, president of Liberty Stix, an e-cigarette company in Willoughby, said in an e-mail that his product does not contain diethylene glycol or carcinogens such as those found in the tested samples.

"Our product is made in the [United States,] not that Chinese garbage that I guarantee was what they analyzed, and I have been very vocal about this from the get-go with the FDA," Cangemi wrote.
He added, "Products tested seem to vary greatly on nicotine levels even within a product line. Our current production process and recipes should eliminate the unacceptable variances seen in that report."

You can view the entire article by clicking here:
Electronic cigarettes have unsafe ingredients, FDA tests find - cleveland.com


At Liberty Stix, quality, customer service, and innovation are our core values. We stand behind our AMERICAN made cartridge formula, made with 100% pharmaceutical grade ingredients, and agree with the FDA that some other formulas that are available in the market place do have fillers and potentially harmful ingredients. The Liberty Stix cartridge formula does not contain these ingredients.

At Liberty Stix, ethical business practices are also a core value at our company. We welcome any advice that any medical authorities can offer. Additionally, we welcome any regulation, if forthcoming, as long as it is done on a case by case evaluation.

Thank you for taking the time to read this response, and we hope to be your American e-cigarette provider now and in the future. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please email us at customerservice@libertystix.com or call us at 877-TRY-STIX.

Sincerely,

Sebastian Cangemi

President
Liberty Stix

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souporvapor

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 9, 2009
346
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Everett, WA
Good evening Mr. Cangemi

I am unclear about your website's statement of being 'Registered with the FDA'
prominently placed repeatedly on your website. Please assist me in understanding

1. what that means
2. the process by which you registered and (apparently?) had your products approved
at least registration would imply they are approved.
3. where I can find copies of the lab reports supporting your online statements about your products

I was unaware the FDA had made specific exceptions in regards to sales of these products.

Since you make it clear that
"At Liberty Stix, ethical business practices are also a core value at our company."
I look forward to receiving the information requested.
 
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need_2quit

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 5, 2009
336
1
usa
3. where I can find copies of the lab reports supporting your online statements about your products

no kidding. anyone that makes statements like that, I'd like to see it in writing.

I was under the impression from the FDA report that PG is the source for Diethylene Glycol in trace amounts.

Mixing in the USA is not the same as getting all ingredients from the USA, pharmaceutical or not. Is the PG made in the USA?

I know of few USA products anymore that are anything more than retagged products from china. At least portions of the product.
 
Our statements, as far as registered goes, means our intent and willingness to move forward with clinical testing (toxicology, lung function, pulmonary testing, oxygenation in red blood cells etc.). Registration does not mean approval and we haven't been misleading or misrepresenting that, or implying that, in any shape way or form.

As far as the process, well it is a process and we have decided not to make it privy to anyone at this time. We have received some of our testing back and are waiting for a few back up testing facilities that also used our device (Liberty Stix) and our proprietary American made liquid formula, after all the scrutiny we want to get at least 3 independent test from three independent testing/research facilities. We received our first result a week or so ago, our second results yesterday and third testing should be coming back fairly soon (unfortunately the very reputable university we are testing at has a professor that is abroad right now, but with school starting soon I don't anticipate a long wait).

The aforementioned testing results will be published in a national medical journal. I reached out to many suppliers on different occasions for the different testing opportunities that were given to me. Not one accepted my invitation, which I was initially very disappointed in that response. Nevertheless, we went into this testing blindly, and jumped in with both feet. Our confidentiality agreement states we must allow the publication, without any limitation, to be publsihed whether the testing would put us in a positive or negative light. We agreed to that. Hence the testing is going ahead with the publication. Beyond that I can't disclose anything, but I can assure you with the scrutiny we are under we will make the publication a top priority (in other words ASAP). As far as copies of the publication, obviously they would be widely available on this thread, on the internet, and probably through several news outlets.

Being MADE IN THE USA represents that all or nearly all of the product is sourced in the USA. Our product goes well beyond the 75% threshold that is needed to make that statement.

Thank you for your inquiries.
 
Also, I appreciate inquiries, I really do. However, if inquiries are made in a rude manner, or unprofessionally, I simply am not going to respond. I will simpy post that I am not going to respond to you until you edit the way you ask your question.

I work VERY VERY hard at this and I don't feel I have to subject myself to disrespect or looked at cockeyed because people don't believe what I am stating. It is my right to divulge or not divulge information, and alot of people on this forum are pretty rough.

Just because you think you know something in regards to this industry, or because someone told you on this forum, does not make it fact. I see false mumbo jumbo, or what I believe to be false mumbo jumbo all the time. I keep it to myself, it all comes out in the wash.

Basically if you are nice to me, I am nice to you... and will do my best to answer your questions.
 
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Fud

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 11, 2009
142
2
Hawaii
Bunch of things i didn't even mention on my post on the general discussion one. The claim that your company is the only one made in america is just plain false. Ever heard of Johnson Creek? You complain about chinese products and so do I man but nothing on your product is stamped where it came from. Not the batterys not the atomizer, i'm sure if you knew who made it you would divulge that info you know that one that fell apart that you didn't try to replace until I complained here with totally valid points.

Customer service, Want me to get started on that again with the really rude woman that kept yelling at me because I was making valid points?

Your site says !00% customer satisfaction guaranteed and a 30 day warranty. Then you call me up and say it's null and void because i put in a couple of drops of JC juice way after the problems started. Just look at the dates of my posts here and the time line.

First day about 90% satisfied then it went downhill after that, especially when the atomizer fell apart literally in half just by pulling out a cart.

I can take pictures of it if you like and post it here. Also a whois on your site shows that you are hiding behind a proxy registrar yet you or someone you work with looks up people here if they have a complaint and try to go after them?

The only thing with a stamp on it was the charger that says Desan Power Technology Co, i looked them up and all i could find was links to south america not north america. On the bottom it says DSC103-C did you make the 103 as well?

In case you try to change your web page I have them mirrored on a private site so if you do change the false claims it's there on the record. For now there are chmod 700 which means not available publicly for a file permission. If you change your site i'll chmod 755 which means public in unix speak. Also it's on google cached pages so if you do change it it won't matter really.

How many claims do we have to dubunk? Supply the FDA findings at least that is just one of your claims.

I tried to play nice with you for a long time and emails didn't get answered and your secretary or whatever she is was yelling at me posting the truth of my experiences with your company.

Just send me a prepaid return box or something and we can call it even after all the frustration I went though. I will even have to take pictures and get a return reciept if you choose to keep digging yourself in a hole when this could of been settled a long time ago.

Remember what it says on your own site 100% customer satisfaction guaranteed correct? Anyone can see it for themselves.

I can go on and on like you have banners for Blu on your site and another one made in china yet you complain about chinese products...I'm sure they must be happy about that and i'm not a fan of chinese products at all.

See i'm not even asking for extra money back for all the time and aggravation wasted on this just a refund and you will get your Product back is that fair enough?

If you want to fight this out and prolong it I am not the type to give up, So lets be civil and honor what you put on your website. Fair enough?

On edit, my 510 should be in today or saturday, the reason i picked that was by listening to forum posters that actually use all different types. Also i just checked an above post of yours saying you won't answer emails if they are rude, Never once was i rude at all, you seem like a nice guy on the phone but we never met face to face, your girl that answers the phone could use some PR training if you know what i mean.
 
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brandeeashlynn

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 29, 2009
491
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48
Where does your product come from? It is shady practice at best. It is stuff like this that will get the PV banned!!!!. Big tobacco did the same thing in the 50 s. Until we get some real results and lab test by different labs and info on where and how the liquid is made no business should make such statements this is what got us on this mess in first place.:mad::mad:
 
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FUD,
I responded to your "rant" on the original thread (I just posted this in between getting a response posted because I sought moderator approval of my response prior to responding). There's no need to derail this thread. Additionally I addressed all your "rants" on that thread. Including the fact that the site you went to was not my website...which seems to be your number one beef.

As far as website change, for the site you purchased from, that site is being changed. You made some valid points and I addressed them AGAIN in that original thread where this belongs.

As far as the other things regarding the not-my-site beefs, I hope you at least edit your post.

I was nice on the phone because I was trying to resolve an issue, but at the same time I am not gonna let people just run all over my company. This was resolved without the 'rant', and you are making it seem like I wasn't replacing your product. Honestly, I still can't figure this whole thing out, but I will make sure your replacement is in the mail today.... (CANCEL THAT, you are getting refunded, I can't waste time on this anymore)

Brandeeashlynn liquid comes from USA, components from China. I have never said anything different than that. My company's one year anniversary is next month. I wouldn't still be in business if we were 'shady'.
 

Fud

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 11, 2009
142
2
Hawaii
I hate to correct you again but if you type liberty stix in google or any search engine it goes to nationwidesmokes.com maybe you should fix that first as well. So ok just send a prepaid box to the shipping address and all is good instead of this bickering on this forum which most people don't even want to look at even. So this resolved i assume then? I will find out from the credit card company if it is refunded and gladly ship back your product as I said i would.

So I guess this is a happy ending then.

FUD,
I responded to your "rant" on the original thread (I just posted this in between getting a response posted because I sought moderator approval of my response prior to responding). There's no need to derail this thread. Additionally I addressed all your "rants" on that thread. Including the fact that the site you went to was not my website...which seems to be your number one beef.

As far as website change, for the site you purchased from, that site is being changed. You made some valid points and I addressed them AGAIN in that original thread where this belongs.

As far as the other things regarding the not-my-site beefs, I hope you at least edit your post.

I was nice on the phone because I was trying to resolve an issue, but at the same time I am not gonna let people just run all over my company. This was resolved without the 'rant', and you are making it seem like I wasn't replacing your product. Honestly, I still can't figure this whole thing out, but I will make sure your replacement is in the mail today.... (CANCEL THAT, you are getting refunded, I can't waste time on this anymore)

Brandeeashlynn liquid comes from USA, components from China. I have never said anything different than that. My company's one year anniversary is next month. I wouldn't still be in business if we were 'shady'.
 

WindyCityMike

Full Member
ECF Veteran
May 7, 2009
42
0
OK
So from your FAQ on your website:

"Liberty Stix has been extensively tested and the cartridges have been toxicologically tested and none of the ingredients are considered cancer-causing agents"

What lab did your testing, should probably scan and post those results, since they seem so amazing. Then it might be worth 5 dollars for 2 whole carts, or at the "carton" price of 50 dollars for 20.

Especially since you don't sell just the amazing liquid, and expect people to buy carts, and then throw them away in a made in the USA landfill.
 
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Well at least we finally got through this, and that the website in question was in fact not my website. Soooo, consequently, WE didn't ignore your emails, WE didn't hang up or ignore your phone calls, and WE didn't harass your wife, YOU didn't purchase our product through us (all of which I stated) but WE, my company, is refunding your money. Customer Service STILL unblemished.

Windy City, Excellent points. The testing center, not paid for by us but used our unit and cartridge as a model, will be actually putting our results into a nationally published medical journal. There are 3 labs that did testing, TX, OH, NJ.

We don't sell liquid because we have no control over customer usage of it. Continual topping off of carts may breed bacteria, continual dropping, or misdropping, can yield hardware failure.

Plus we have an extensive product liability insurance policy, which is pretty unique in this industry...I know how difficult it was to acquire our policy and it is VERY expensive. So basically we have built that cost into our cost. This way our retailers, our customers, and our company are ALL protected. In addition to the fact that it is made in America.

The eco friendly point is a good one, besides the aforementioned concerns, it would be nice to have an ecofriendly/biodegradeable cart. We have a few strongly eco friendly people on our staff, they actually drive to drop off our recycleables (so I don't know if it's a wash because of the gas they use :)) but I am sure they would be interested into looking into that matter further.

Yeah our carts are expensive but if you want the fully loaded Cadillac you pay for a fully loaded Cadillac.
 

souporvapor

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 9, 2009
346
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65
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Sorry but I still can't get past your claim of being registered with the FDA

Your response does not address the concept that you are making a statement regarding a Federal Agency 'Registering' your product - and that is at least misleading
since no such 'registry' exists.

As you continue to explain your 'cartridges' which are filled with the 'only' e-liquid made in America - you state the ingredients are at least 75% made in USA

You also claim your company specializes in the manufacturing of the e-cigarettes you distribute.....
and the location of your United States manufaturing plant ....which is turning out a product that looks exactly like those made in 'another country... is where again?

Maybe the labelling is manufactured here... your 75% comment appears to take into consideration the size of the box, the 'volume' of your manual.... and perhaps the shipping material used to package for distribution? with the actual product (remaining 25%) coming from
China
 
I have addressed most of these issues throughout this forum. I am beginning to feel like we are splitting hairs, and getting away from the real point of my message....which is that our product does not contain diethylene glycol or the carcinogens found in the FDA lab analysis. We have the only American liquid filled cartridge and I will leave it at that.

Our factory is located in my contact information. It's 17,000 square feet. If you don't believe me, email Harlan Spector (Health Reporter) of the Cleveland Plain Dealer (Ohio's Largest Newspaper) and he will verify it, as he has visited our facility. I have never claimed that our hardware originates in the US. Our formula for our cartridge does.

If you have other questions etc. Feel free to call me at our office 877-TRY-STIX. Available 10-6 Monday through Friday.
 

grimmer255

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 5, 2009
3,271
12
somewhere out there......
Bunch of things i didn't even mention on my post on the general discussion one. The claim that your company is the only one made in america is just plain false. Ever heard of Johnson Creek? You complain about chinese products and so do I man but nothing on your product is stamped where it came from. Not the batterys not the atomizer, i'm sure if you knew who made it you would divulge that info you know that one that fell apart that you didn't try to replace until I complained here with totally valid points.

Customer service, Want me to get started on that again with the really rude woman that kept yelling at me because I was making valid points?

Your site says !00% customer satisfaction guaranteed and a 30 day warranty. Then you call me up and say it's null and void because i put in a couple of drops of JC juice way after the problems started. Just look at the dates of my posts here and the time line.

First day about 90% satisfied then it went downhill after that, especially when the atomizer fell apart literally in half just by pulling out a cart.

I can take pictures of it if you like and post it here. Also a whois on your site shows that you are hiding behind a proxy registrar yet you or someone you work with looks up people here if they have a complaint and try to go after them?

The only thing with a stamp on it was the charger that says Desan Power Technology Co, i looked them up and all i could find was links to south america not north america. On the bottom it says DSC103-C did you make the 103 as well?

In case you try to change your web page I have them mirrored on a private site so if you do change the false claims it's there on the record. For now there are chmod 700 which means not available publicly for a file permission. If you change your site i'll chmod 755 which means public in unix speak. Also it's on google cached pages so if you do change it it won't matter really.

How many claims do we have to dubunk? Supply the FDA findings at least that is just one of your claims.

I tried to play nice with you for a long time and emails didn't get answered and your secretary or whatever she is was yelling at me posting the truth of my experiences with your company.

Just send me a prepaid return box or something and we can call it even after all the frustration I went though. I will even have to take pictures and get a return reciept if you choose to keep digging yourself in a hole when this could of been settled a long time ago.

Remember what it says on your own site 100% customer satisfaction guaranteed correct? Anyone can see it for themselves.

I can go on and on like you have banners for Blu on your site and another one made in china yet you complain about chinese products...I'm sure they must be happy about that and i'm not a fan of chinese products at all.

See i'm not even asking for extra money back for all the time and aggravation wasted on this just a refund and you will get your Product back is that fair enough?

If you want to fight this out and prolong it I am not the type to give up, So lets be civil and honor what you put on your website. Fair enough?

On edit, my 510 should be in today or saturday, the reason i picked that was by listening to forum posters that actually use all different types. Also i just checked an above post of yours saying you won't answer emails if they are rude, Never once was i rude at all, you seem like a nice guy on the phone but we never met face to face, your girl that answers the phone could use some PR training if you know what i mean.
I have yet ordered from this supplier, but he is at least getting his liquid checked. And I hope he lists his ingredient and label the bottles. Like many other companies they are not willing to or dont have the means to see whats in them or label them.
And beyound this he never said he was the only company that has american made liquid. We all know about JC...so why would he say that.
 
When our independent studies are released through the media, we are dedicating an entire navigatable site so people can review our compliance initiative. I am under NDA terms to not discuss this until that time. With the current scrutiny it is a priority.

If you have other questions etc. Feel free to call me at our office 877-TRY-STIX. Available 10-6 Monday through Friday.
 
Actually, I want to renig something I stated in an earlier posting...I don't know where I posted it, but the independent research facility JUST told me like two hours ago (because I won't leave them alone because I want to release the findings) that in fact we were one of three companies that submitted product for testing. We all were subject to a NDA and have no power over the publication of the testing whether it is or isn't in our favor. We didn't pay them, they only received enough product to conduct testing.

The other two companies likely have their results, but I have not seen their results. So there were other companies that joined in the testing of ONE of the three labs that we submitted our components and cartridge liquid.
 

grimmer255

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 5, 2009
3,271
12
somewhere out there......
Actually, I want to renig something I stated in an earlier posting...I don't know where I posted it, but the independent research facility JUST told me like two hours ago (because I won't leave them alone because I want to release the findings) that in fact we were one of three companies that submitted product for testing. We all were subject to a NDA and have no power over the publication of the testing whether it is or isn't in our favor. We didn't pay them, they only received enough product to conduct testing.

The other two companies likely have their results, but I have not seen their results. So there were other companies that joined in the testing of ONE of the three labs that we submitted our components and cartridge liquid.
thats great news.....I look forward in reading the final report.....I hope you guys start labeling.....Under FDA requirement anything that is put into the body must have strict labels and list of all ingredients including percentage.

Im sure you guys are working on this....
 
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