Lithium ion or Lithium Polymer?

[dedmonwakin]

The common description of the battery with in the e-cig is described as a Li-ion among forum members, which has had me confused for quite sometime. First time taking my ecig battery out of the casing months ago made me question if these were really li-ion's. They're wrapped, like lipo's, behave like li-po's....yet, believed to be li-ion's.

In my experiences with li-po's and a little degree of knowledge dealing with li-ion's. I decided to peel back the wrapping.

My first thought was to expect a strong ammonia smell from it. associated in li-ions since it is filled with lmetal/ammonia liquid, but no. There is none.

The battery has a green gel, consistent with li-po's since they are polymer gel filled, with a cement glue aroma.

Maybe, there is an inconsistency in manufacturing, where some get li-ion's and some get li-po's?

Otherwise, I'm certain what is in these ecigs are li-po's.

This makes for a contradicting product all together.

Li-po's once fully charged, should be used immediately. If they are not, and stored with a full charge or greater than 40%, battery life is lessened to a great degree before it's time. Even more rapidly in a smaller battery. Li-po's have a higher discharge rate, which is fantastic for heat and vapor production.

But for me this explains a great deal, as to why the ecig is terrible about holding a charge. Manufacturers pre charge then stored, sellers test charge then stored or charged begfore shipping and we get them and charge long in advance before using, lessening the ability for the battery to hold a charge. And all this is outside of the batteries ability to hold a charge due to it's size, regarding capacity.

Dangerous, do not try this. This is a risk not worth taking, even I should have not done this as I am not qualified to dismantle a dangerous battery.

 

[kinabaloo]

Very interesting dedmon. It's always worth questioning assumptions

Explains why they perform better than expected for the small size.

The 14500 16850 etc are Li-ion.

 

[kinabaloo]

You're a brave man!

I pulled off the connector to one of these ecig batteries and need to open it a bit to reconnect a wire. You've given me confidence to try ...

Would still work if just wrapped up again after?

 

[dedmonwakin]

You're a brave man!

I pulled off the connector to one of these ecig batteries and need to open it a bit to reconnect a wire. You've given me confidence to try ...

Fine line between brave and dumb....I'm leaning towards the latter.

It just bothered me, actually really irritated me to see something very similar to a li-po, yet I'm being told that they are li-ions.

You should really have battery wrapping or shrink wrapping on hand if you intend to reuse it. The gel (although in a plastic and metal banded casing)does slowly leak from the holes on either side.

 

[kinabaloo]

I had always thought it better to use the battery if it arrives with any charge. But didnt want to step into that particularly heated debate.

 

[dedmonwakin]

Your correct. Li-po's or Li-ion's wil be unaffected if used before a full charge. They both are absent of cell memory. Li-ions do share something almost similar to cell memory, called digital memory. But this is associated to the device remembering the full status of the batteries charge, not the batteries ability to hold a full charge. This of course is correctable, by letting the device drain the battery until off, then recharge it fully and repeat until the device has now realized the full capacity of the battery. The device I of course am referring to is the phone, which has contributed to the confusion of a li-ion sharing similarities to a Nicad battery.

 

[dedmonwakin]

Forgot to mention this,

Please no one try this. Very dangerous and only the stupid would do this, err..umm....well, I like to think of me as crazy.

 

[kinabaloo]

Dangerous, do not try this. This is a risk not worth taking, even I should have not done this as I am not qualified to dismantle a dangerous battery.

At least you didn't throw it on a fire.

 

[cddz]

At least you didn't throw it on a fire.

Have you ever disposed of a battery in a fire? I did once on a fishing trip. DO NOT DISPOSE OF IN FIRE! BIG BOOM!

 

[DaMulta]

BE CARE FULL AGAIN!!!

These are Lithium, and I don't know how hard they are to set off as the normal ones are. Lets just say it's a normal one, when you break the seal....it will flash burn with fumes(when you just in hale them it can give you the same affect just not as bad or as quick as---->), and if you say get it on your fingers also you could get it in yours eyes/mouth really quick. YOU WILL BE SEEING PURPLE, AND HEARING SOUNDS THAT ARE NOT THERE! YOU COULD DIE IF YOUR BODY CAN'T HANDLE IT/ IDK about these....but I have done this to myself with normal ones in the past.....

With the normal Lithium bats there is a strip that holds it together. When that little strip that runs along the side is broken the reaction starts.

 

[kinabaloo]

Have you ever disposed of a battery in a fire? I did once on a fishing trip. DO NOT DISPOSE OF IN FIRE! BIG BOOM!

That's the well known warning : do not dismantle; do not dispose on a fire.

Like a big button that says 'don't press'

I never did. But someone will

Curiosity killed the cat, you know.

So lucky they got 9 lives ...

 

[dedmonwakin]

Have you ever disposed of a battery in a fire? I did once on a fishing trip. DO NOT DISPOSE OF IN FIRE! BIG BOOM!

I've had an 11.1v battery go off in the field. Twice on different occasions. Talk about big boom. The first time was on the bumper of my vehicle. That was a very sad day. Not only was that terrifying, it melted and dented my vehicle bumper cover, with molten gel on the hood. Had to of course get a new front bumper cover, but had to have a full body paint job.

Second time, I knew better and charged away from my car. Wasn't as big a boom this time around, but still caught fire in the field. Fortunately, we carry fire extinguishers.

 

[dedmonwakin]

BE CARE FULL AGAIN!!!

These are Lithium, and I don't know how hard they are to set off as the normal ones are. Lets just say it's a normal one, when you break the seal....it will flash burn with fumes(when you just in hale them it can give you the same affect just not as bad or as quick as---->), and if you say get it on your fingers also you could get it in yours eyes/mouth really quick. YOU WILL BE SEEING PURPLE, AND HEARING SOUNDS THAT ARE NOT THERE! YOU COULD DIE IF YOUR BODY CAN'T HANDLE IT/ IDK about these....but I have done this to myself with normal ones in the past.....

With the normal Lithium bats there is a strip that holds it together. When that little strip that runs along the side is broken the reaction starts.

Trust me, I won't be doing this again. Glad your okay from your experiences, though.

 

[DaMulta]

LOL Now you know why .... labs explode when they use Lithium LOL..(Those are the fires you always see on the news....just saying)..Just think what happens when they go boom inside a full bottle of say Campers Lighting Fuel......


I might of been a little wild in my teens......so to say Good Times/but really bad times/Just remember the good times tho lol......



Like I said, I don't know if these would go off in the same matter or not. It might be a good thing not to try to set one off tho....

 

[dedmonwakin]

LOL Now you know why .... labs explode when they use Lithium LOL..(Those are the fires you always see on the news....just saying)..Just think what happens when they go boom inside a full bottle of say Campers Lighting Fuel......


I might of been a little wild in my teens......so to say Good Times/but really bad times/Just remember the good times tho lol......



Like I said, I don't know if these would go off in the same matter or not. It might be a good thing not to try to set one off tho....

From my understanding, any lithium will go off, but li-ions are worse. Li-po's can take a higher charge, li-ion's definitely cannot, and should be charged at a lower current.

Li-ion's are filled with liquid, when they go off, think of it more like napalm. Liquid fire, no good.

Li-po's, are again, filled with gel and a touch of liquid to keep it moist. When li-po's go off, think of it as molten lava erupting from a volcano. Molten lava, equally no good.

Either way, lithium anything batteries, (and there are many various types, just not available to us consumers) are dangerous and deadly.

I suppose the guy with the pacemaker powered by lithium batteries could be considered a walking time bomb. No offense to anyone that has one.

 

[DaMulta]

I pulled this off the web for you. There is also more to read there.
How to Choose Between Lithium ION and Lithium Polymer Batteries - Ultralife Batteries | Engineers

Generally, battery cavity restrictions and cost structures built into the product or application determine whether or not Lithium ion or Lithium polymer batteries are recommended. If an application needs a very thin battery, typically less than 4 or 5mm, lithium polymer is recommended as it can be manufactured to such degrees of thinness that can’t be matched by Lithium ion. If the application’s battery cavity is a bit more forgiving, then Lithium ion is typically recommended largely due it being less expensive to manufacture.

Other factors, of course, will play into whether or not Lithium ion or Lithium polymer is recommended such as weight and customization needs. But on a very general level, thickness and cost structures play a very large role in determining which battery type is right for you.

I think the Screw Driver uses a Li-Po.....

 

[cddz]

I pulled this off the web for you. There is also more to read there.
How to Choose Between Lithium ION and Lithium Polymer Batteries - Ultralife Batteries | Engineers



I think the Screw Driver uses a Li-Po.....

most of the CR123 mods use Li-Po because of the number of charge cycles. The CR123 is inexpensive as a Li-Po

 

[kinabaloo]

The cheer is that advances in batteries are certain

 

[Laredo7mm]

I think the Screw Driver uses a Li-Po.....

I think it uses Li-Ion.

 

[Laredo7mm]

most of the CR123 mods use Li-Po because of the number of charge cycles. The CR123 is inexpensive as a Li-Po

I don't think CR123 come in anything but Li-Ion. DYODD

Li_poly batteries are typically flat and retangular not cylindrical. The ones in a stock 901 could I guess be LI-Poly and just be long but square in cross section.

Also I have never seen an LI-Poly that didn't have flat ribbon terminals. Well except for the ones in cell phones. It is interesting to see that same flat ribbon type lead in Dedmon's picture.