Looking for help with my RSST!

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If I posted in the wrong area, I suppose moving it would make sense, not sure where to post this one.

Ok, So I believe the brand I'm using is a Smoktech RSST, looks the same in pictures. I've been given a steel braided cord to try with the steel mesh I've got. Not sure how fine what not that mesh is, I will be finding out today. I was told to oxidize a cut piece of mesh with a torch (I have one) and wrap it about 3 times around the exposed part of the braid to wrap the kanthal around. I feel like I've gotten good at actually wrapping the kanthal, nice and even spacing, but am still getting pretty poor results in the form of a metallic taste. I don't even get hot spots if I take my time.

I'm sure someone out there knows where I may be going wrong. I know these devices rock nicely when they are working correctly, so I'm trying to get it the way it was before. I noticed that after oxidizing, there is a black residue left over, I assume that is carbon? To remove it, should I maybe dip in water and remove it/dry with a paper towel? Any links or advice here would be great. Maybe my process is wrong, and maybe my materials are wrong as well. I would love to know from someone who owns one of these what has worked for them, the build and what parts used! Thanks.

PS: I have a Smoktech ZMAX and a Mech mod battery the "Natural"
 

Vaslovik

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Okay, take your SS mesh and just roll up a wick after oxidizing that mesh good with a torch. Start with a piece of mesh 1 1/2 in. by 3.5 in. See PBursado's vids on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjNzuNyWZ3U

You really need to know what gauge wire you are using here, and it sounds like you are wrapping your coil much too hot if it's 28 ga. kanthal. 3 wraps with that will get you about .6 ohms. This would account for the bad taste you are getting.

Oxidize your 400/500 mesh well on both sides with a torch, roll it up after doing the thin fold-over on the end you are rolling towards. Roll it up tight. Oxidize it again with the torch, end to end, let it cool. Coat your wick with juice and burn that off with a Bic lighter a couple times at least, roll it a bit more. Do NOT worry about the black carbon residue, that's good stuff.

Wrap your coil in a 4/3 wrap with 28 ga. kanthal, check your ohms. Adjust as suits your ohms target. Shoot for .8+ ohms if using an RBA on a mech. If using a regulated mod try for 1.8 ohms. For 1.8 ohms you will need a 5/4 wrap or better. Work out the hot spots, a metal dental pick is best for this, if you don't have one improvise. Check ohms after you get the coil uniformly glowing.

Make SURE you do not have a short before putting it on your mod and trying to fire it by checking the ohms on either your regulated mod or an external ohms checking device.

The RSST is a very fine RBA to start out with. Trying to use SS rope/cable too soon is not a good idea. Just start out with SS mesh and master making wicks and coils first.
 
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yellowrider

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Great advice.. ^^ Rba's take time and patience.. Everyone who are masters now can agree to that with the struggles we all faced in our rookie building stages..

30awg, 32, awg will all work just fine as well. Lower the awg kenthal will equal lower ohms per turn. You will soon figure out what ohm vaper you are.

Crazy, I thought I was the only one using a dental tool. But honestly I rarely find myself adjusting coils anymore. I just rewrapp after half dozen tanks.
 
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I bet I'll have to learn by doing, but advice is always helpful. Actually vaslovik, my ohms were at 1.5 or so with 4-5 wraps, performance was actually decent at first, but soon started tasting off. Using that braid makes it so much faster to get the wick going, plus it makes it easier not to put a kink or bend in the mesh when wrapping tight, I wonder why I couldn't jump into using that if its truly a helpful option to use for performance anyway.

I have yet to watch the video, but when I get the chance I'll watch the whole thing and take notes. For now, I'll just get into more questions hopefully someone reading can answer about these devices.

Okay, so first off, why is the residue created from oxidization a good thing to have? Beside that, I'm trying to figure out the best way to set it all up to vape with. So I think of what the variables are that affect the performance. These would be the mesh itself and the kanthal used, then most importantly, the best process. So I don't know how much torching should be done on the mesh exactly. Like, what happens if you torch too little and too much regarding end performance? Also, should the torch have a really hot flame or just enough to create one? Regarding kanthal, are they all made alike, just different gauges? I'll use the materials I've got for now, but I'm interested in hearing about other's experience with different mesh, maybe something not metal, whatever has worked amazing/great for anyone. Since its pretty damn cheap, I would love suggestions with links to where I could order it from to test.

I mean, doing this it actually pretty simple to me, I just don't know if I'm doing everything exactly right, especially when using the torch for mesh. Also, do you ever oxidize the kanthal at all or leave it alone? I feel confident in wrapping the kanthal, I just take off the power screw so I can have room to wrap evenly.

I'll leave my questions at that for now, I'll have to check out the vid when I can.
 

Vaslovik

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I bet I'll have to learn by doing, but advice is always helpful. Actually vaslovik, my ohms were at 1.5 or so with 4-5 wraps, performance was actually decent at first, but soon started tasting off. Using that braid makes it so much faster to get the wick going, plus it makes it easier not to put a kink or bend in the mesh when wrapping tight, I wonder why I couldn't jump into using that if its truly a helpful option to use for performance anyway.

Fair enough, and I have to admit that I've not availed myself of SS rope as yet, having not seen the need. My rolled up SS mesh wicks have served me very well. I have had that nasty taste suddenly happen to me too, on a wick and coil that were working fine minutes before. Generally that means your coil has developed a hot spot, somehow, so you need to work that out.

Okay, so first off, why is the residue created from oxidization a good thing to have?
Because it's part of your oxidation and keeps your coil from grounding out on your wick.
Beside that, I'm trying to figure out the best way to set it all up to vape with. So I think of what the variables are that affect the performance. These would be the mesh itself and the kanthal used, then most importantly, the best process. So I don't know how much torching should be done on the mesh exactly. Like, what happens if you torch too little and too much regarding end performance?

Well it's been pointed out to me that a poorly oxidized wick will perform poorly with regard to taste, and I've experienced that. My first wick was a pretty sorry affair that way. Note that in the PBusardo vid I gave the link for Phil uses the pulse method to oxidize his wick only where it touches the coil. This is easier to do with the RSST because the wick hole is insulated, a very nice feature, and you will note that the coil glows from the top and bottom both because of that. This is pretty spiffy and one reason my next RBA is going to be the RSST.

Personally I prefer to torch oxidize my wick before and after rolling it up, then do the juice burnoff on it 2 or 3 times. It's gotten me very good wicks, and I'm happy with that method.

Also, should the torch have a really hot flame or just enough to create one?

I'm not sure I understand that question. I use a butane torch, that has a blue flame, and this works just fine for me. Just make sure you don't burn through the mesh, otherwise oxidize it well all over on both sides.
Regarding kanthal, are they all made alike, just different gauges? I'll use the materials I've got for now, but I'm interested in hearing about other's experience with different mesh, maybe something not metal, whatever has worked amazing/great for anyone. Since its pretty damn cheap, I would love suggestions with links to where I could order it from to test.

I get my kanthal from Temco, a quite popular vendor for that among RBA users. The lower the gauge number the thicker the wire and the less will be it's resistance, or ohms per foot. So 32 ga. has more resistance than 28 ga. The thicker wire is a bigger pipe. As for a non-metal wick there are porous ceramic wicks you can get, or make. They are reported to work well, but the downside is that they are very brittle, and will snap with very little sheer force applied, leading to frustration and OS moments. You can of course make silica wicks also. I've not gone that way myself, I am very pleased with the SS mesh.
I mean, doing this it actually pretty simple to me, I just don't know if I'm doing everything exactly right, especially when using the torch for mesh. Also, do you ever oxidize the kanthal at all or leave it alone? I feel confident in wrapping the kanthal, I just take off the power screw so I can have room to wrap evenly.

I'll leave my questions at that for now, I'll have to check out the vid when I can.

I do torch the kanthal before I wrap my coil, to anneal it, or soften it so the wrapping works well without springiness in the wire. Temco's spools say it's annealed, but I do it anyway, because I like to, and to make sure.

BTW, here's the link to PBusardo doing the build on an AGA-T2, which is pretty much how I do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnuYJeoS6Fc

I guess most of all I'd say take your time, don't let it frustrate you, and experiment a lot. Get a goodly supply of kanthal and mesh, along with the basic tools to work it, and just work it out. If you have 100 ft. of kanthal you can wrap a lot of coils at very low cost. Watch the YT vids on it, there are a lot of them and they are very helpful. Different videos by different people demonstrate different methods, and you will arrive at what works best for you.
 
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Vaslovik

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I feel confident in wrapping the kanthal, I just take off the power screw so I can have room to wrap evenly.

Hey, another method you might want to try is the Petar K method, and I use a variant of that myself. In this method one uses a drill bit or some other similar object that will fit down into the wick hole the same as the wick will, and wraps the coil on that first with the drill bit, or other thingy, in the wick hole. Then you take out the drill bit, or other thingy, and gently insert the wick into the coil.

Personally I use another thingy, I cut off the ends of a Q-tip and use the paper stick to wind my coil on. It's the same size as my wicks rolled from a 3 inch strip of SS mesh and fits very neatly into the wick hole of my AGA-T2. After I pull it out I pulse the coil a few times getting it glowing good so it settles into it's shape, then slip the wick into it, work out the hot spots, which is easy, sometimes there are none.

It helps to turn the wick as you are inserting it in the direction it's rolled in, then when it's in far enough turn it the other way a little bit to firm it up against the coil. I find this method works well for me, however, as always, YMMV.
 

AutoMax

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I have a love hate relationship with the RSST and mesh.

The first time I built a wick and coil it wicked great even with the fill cap on and it made huge clouds with good taste.

Now I've tried building 3 different wicks and not one is wicking good. Whether rolled super tight or with a center space I get this crappy metal/burnt taste.

I checked the coil by dry firing and it lights up evenly. I burned the crap out of the wick/coil to get it to oxidize or build a layer. No matter what I do I m having no luck with it now.

I must have had beginner luck. I'm about ready to toss the mesh and buy ceramic.

I guess it's part of the learning process.:banghead:

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Vaslovik

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I have a love hate relationship with the RSST and mesh.

The first time I built a wick and coil it wicked great even with the fill cap on and it made huge clouds with good taste.

Now I've tried building 3 different wicks and not one is wicking good. Whether rolled super tight or with a center space I get this crappy metal/burnt taste.

I checked the coil by dry firing and it lights up evenly. I burned the crap out of the wick/coil to get it to oxidize or build a layer. No matter what I do I m having no luck with it now.

I must have had beginner luck. I'm about ready to toss the mesh and buy ceramic.


Well yes, it is part of the learning process, which can at times be frustrating. One thing that can give you that horrid harsh metal burnt taste is holes burnt in your wick by your coil. This can happen if you are using the pulse method of oxidizing your wick and you won't see them. To see them you have to pull the wick out of the coil and de-juice it. It happens sometimes while you are working out the hot spots in your coil and hold the button down too long.

Hot spots, if you didn't work them out, are another main cause of that horrid harsh taste. Does your coil glow evenly all the way down? Does each loop glow when you push the button? Are there bright spots on any of the loops? If so that would do it. You need something like a metal dental pick to move the glowing coil loops gently up/down until the hot spot goes away and the coil glows uniformly.

Also, what ohms are you winding your coil for? What gauge wire? Did you oxidize your wick well with a torch before and after rolling it up? I know it can be frustrating, but just have lots of mesh and kanthal on hand and forge ahead. Don't give up.

BTW, ceramic wicks snap very easily. Mesh is a lot more durable and forgiving.
 
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AutoMax

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Well yes, it is part of the learning process, which can at times be frustrating. One thing that can give you that horrid harsh metal burnt taste is holes burnt in your wick by your coil. This can happen if you are using the pulse method of oxidizing your wick and you won't see them. To see them you have to pull the wick out of the coil and de-juice it. It happens sometimes while you are working out the hot spots in your coil and hold the button down too long.

Hot spots, if you didn't work them out, are another main cause of that horrid harsh taste. Does your coil glow evenly all the way down? Does each loop glow when you push the button? Are there bright spots on any of the loops? If so that would do it. You need something like a metal dental pick to move the glowing coil loops gently up/down until the hot spot goes away and the coil glows uniformly.

Also, what ohms are you winding your coil for? What gauge wire? Did you oxidize your wick well with a torch before and after rolling it up? I know it can be frustrating, but just have lots of mesh and kanthal on hand and forge ahead. Don't give up.

BTW, ceramic wicks snap very easily. Mesh is a lot more durable and forgiving.

I did torch the wick on both sides before rolling and after.

I made sure I had no hot spots, I did the pulse method and all the coils went orange evenly. I added a few drops of juice to the coil and burned hot to try to build a layer of gunk or something.

Using #500 mesh, rolled tight, flat kanthal [.9], about 4 coils, didn't measure resistance for this last coil, but all my other ones were in the 1-1.3 ohm range.

Although there was some moments where I was cursing and had the urge to throw the RSST across the room I resisted [no pun intended lol]. Luckily I like building things [my other hobbies are cars and computers] and I happen to be somewhat stubborn so I will not give up. The only thing I can think of is my wick is not properly pulling juice, maybe when I coil it I put a kink in it? Or maybe I am vaping too hot for the wick to keep up? If I directly put juice on the coils it tastes good, but then after a few vapes the nasty taste comes back.
 
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Vaslovik

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Using #500 mesh, rolled tight, flat kanthal [.9], about 4 coils, didn't measure resistance for this last coil, but all my other ones were in the 1-1.3 ohm range.

Although there was some moments where I was cursing and had the urge to throw the RSST across the room I resisted [no pun intended lol]. Luckily I like building things [my other hobbies are cars and computers] and I happen to be somewhat stubborn so I will not give up. The only thing I can think of is my wick is not properly pulling juice, maybe when I coil it I put a kink in it? Or maybe I am vaping too hot for the wick to keep up? If I directly put juice on the coils it tastes good, but then after a few vapes the nasty taste comes back.

Okay, you really need to measure the resistance for that coil. Do NOT fire a coil on your mod you have not checked the ohms on!

Also, be aware that ribbon wire (flat kanthal) is a bit more difficult to work with than round wire. I've recently gotten some .9 wide ribbon wire, and with 4 wraps I have a hard time keeping it above .6 ohms. I don't know how thick your ribbon is, but if I were you I would seriously consider just going back to 28 ga. round kanthal for now, and making sure you are not burning holes in the top of your wick when you pulse it to work out the hot spots. You *are* working out the hot spots, aren't you?

It's good that you are oxidizing your wick before and after you roll it up, do you also do the juice burn-off? I do this 2-3 times and roll the wick tighter each time. My personal preference is for solid wicks, at least those with minimal holes up the middle. Your RSST has a bigger wick hole than my AGA-T2, so the length of your SS strip should be a little longer than the 3 inches I use.

I have to say, at the ohms you have been running 1.0 to 1.3 ohms range, you should not be getting that harsh taste problem, unless you have burnt a hole in your wick at the top... or.. you did not do the thin fold-over on the end of the mesh you were rolling toward, or your SS mesh was just not well enough oxidized, or you your coil has a hot spot you have not worked out. In my experience the ohms you are running at should provide a cool vape, and not a harsh one, though I have to say I generally wind my coils for .78 to .84 ohms.

I've used a lot of 500 mesh, and only yesterday went to 400 mesh, which seems to be working very well. 500 mesh wicked very well for me, despite what I was told about VG juice content impeding it's wicking. I've seen nothing to support that.

This is important. Always check the ohms on EVERY coil you build. NEVER just put it on the mod and go with it. Not only that, but check it again after you work out the hot spots, and after you put juice in the tank and vape on it a bit. Ohms creep happens. It does not take much for the resistance in your coil to change, sometimes radically during a build. Check your ohms at each stage of your build, and after vaping for a bit on it.

Anyway, don't throw your RSST across the room, it's a good device, you just need to work out how to get it working right for you. It takes patience and persistence. Most of all, CHECK YOUR OHMS at each stage of your build after you wind that coil, work out the hot spots, and don't burn a hole in that wick. Be sure you fold over the edge of the mesh you roll towards.
 
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AutoMax

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Okay, you really need to measure the resistance for that coil. Do NOT fire a coil on your mod you have not checked the ohms on!

Also, be aware that ribbon wire (flat kanthal) is a bit more difficult to work with than round wire. I've recently gotten some .9 wide ribbon wire, and with 4 wraps I have a hard time keeping it above .6 ohms. I don't know how thick your ribbon is, but if I were you I would seriously consider just going back to 28 ga. round kanthal for now, and making sure you are not burning holes in the top of your wick when you pulse it to work out the hot spots. You *are* working out the hot spots, aren't you?

It's good that you are oxidizing your wick before and after you roll it up, do you also do the juice burn-off? I do this 2-3 times and roll the wick tighter each time. My personal preference is for solid wicks, at least those with minimal holes up the middle. Your RSST has a bigger wick hole than my AGA-T2, so the length of your SS strip should be a little longer than the 3 inches I use.

I have to say, at the ohms you have been running 1.0 to 1.3 ohms range, you should not be getting that harsh taste problem, unless you have burnt a hole in your wick at the top... or.. you did not do the thin fold-over on the end of the mesh you were rolling toward, or your SS mesh was just not well enough oxidized, or you your coil has a hot spot you have not worked out. In my experience the ohms you are running at should provide a cool vape, and not a harsh one, though I have to say I generally wind my coils for .78 to .84 ohms.

I've used a lot of 500 mesh, and only yesterday went to 400 mesh, which seems to be working very well. 500 mesh wicked very well for me, despite what I was told about VG juice content impeding it's wicking. I've seen nothing to support that.

This is important. Always check the ohms on EVERY coil you build. NEVER just put it on the mod and go with it. Not only that, but check it again after you work out the hot spots, and after you put juice in the tank and vape on it a bit. Ohms creep happens. It does not take much for the resistance in your coil to change, sometimes radically during a build. Check your ohms at each stage of your build, and after vaping for a bit on it.

Anyway, don't throw your RSST across the room, it's a good device, you just need to work out how to get it working right for you. It takes patience and persistence. Most of all, CHECK YOUR OHMS at each stage of your build after you wind that coil, work out the hot spots, and don't burn a hole in that wick. Be sure you fold over the edge of the mesh you roll towards.


Ah yes the don't push the button reminder, thanks for the advise, please tell me more about this folding over of the edge [first time i read this]. I just roll the mesh and leave it alone [the weird part is it worked the very first time a made a wick and coiled the RSST, but now that I have made more coils and wicks I have trouble? lol]
 

Vaslovik

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Ah, so you didn't know about that! Well thing is you need to do a fold-over to the inside of the wick of a thin part of the SS mesh before you curl it up. I do mine as thin as I can, about 1/16th to 1/8th inch. I pin down the mesh with a ruler and use a utility knife blade to slip under it and fold that up, then crease it down hard to the inside of the wick as it's to be rolled.

I take it you have seen PBusardo's AGA-T2 build video, if not check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnuYJeoS6Fc

Very good wick making advice there esp in Pt. 2. In general you do not want strands of SS sticking out anywhere, and you want the outside edge of the mesh to be folded over to the inside so the ends of the weave are not exposed. Strands of SS and raw edges on your coil can give you that harsh vape.
 
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AutoMax

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Ah, so you didn't know about that! Well thing is you need to do a fold-over to the inside of the wick of a thin part of the SS mesh before you curl it up. I do mine as thin as I can, about 1/16th to 1/8th inch. I pin down the mesh with a ruler and use a utility knife blade to slip under it and fold that up, then crease it down hard to the inside of the wick as it's to be rolled.

I take it you have seen PBusardo's AGA-T2 build video, if not check it out.

A PBusardo Review - The AGA-T(s) - Part 2 - Assembly & Building Tutorial - YouTube

Very good wick making advice there esp in Pt. 2. In general you do not want strands of SS sticking out anywhere, and you want the outside edge of the mesh to be folded over to the inside so the ends of the weave are not exposed. Strands of SS and raw edges on your coil can give you that harsh vape.

Ok, so, it seems I was vaping [or trying to] at around .6ohms [4 wrap .9 flat ribbon / I use Samsung INR18650-20R -- So I was well within its AMP draw limits]. At that level the coil was heating up the wick / burning off the juice too fast and the wick as not able to keep up with the juice delivery.

I tried folding over the edge like mentioned, and did a 3 wrap coil with .9 flat kanthal which still came out to around .8 ohms. Still too hot and the wick was not keeping up so I got the burnt/metal taste. The weird part is the 1st coil I built for this was about 5 wraps [same flat kanthal - I forget the resistance] and the wick was keeping up just fine for the most part and I did not get the burnt/metal taste.

So, I decided to give up on the flat kanthal [like you suggested] for this application [at least with the .9 ribbon -- I'll order some .5 to have around and try too]. I made a 4 wrap coil using 28 gauge round wire, it came out to about 1-1.1ohms [using the same wick as before] and now it's vaping fine with no burnt/metal taste.

I am thinking about still trying silica and ceramic to see how I like the taste vs mesh. With the mesh the taste seems to be "muted" [or it may be the juice I am using, either way experimenting is welcome].

Thanks for the help!
 

Vaslovik

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Well I cannot speak to how a ceramic wick will taste having not tried them. Silica I can talk about having used it a LOT in my Kanger Protank. Granted that was not sub-ohm, but I got a certain taste from it on a fresh build that I really did like, but which left after a short time. I'm prolly a little weird in this, but I liked the taste of a fresh silica wick before it was broken in. I can't describe it, but it was something like a good tobacco taste.... and then it went away. I've not been able to duplicate it since.

Be aware, again, that ceramic wicks will snap on you with very little force on the sides of them. I've decided not to mess with that.

Yeah, .6 ohms is too much power for your wicking, for sure, and will certainly dry out your wick fast, as well as burn holes in the top of your wick, and give you that nasty burnt metallic dry hit. Now i have to say I've not used the same battery you are using, I just use AW IMR 2000 mAh batteries, the red ones, so I can't really speak to what you are using there, but you seem to know the amp draw on it so I think you are good.

In my own experience flat ribbon wire can be a pain to deal with, but at the same time can deliver very good flavor and a solid vape with a very good cloud when you get it right. This is the deal with RBA's, lots of potential, lots of patience and experimenting required to find the groove. I'm still goofing around with ribbon wire ,and hoping to find the groove. Right now I'm vaping on 28 g. kanthal 3/4 wrap .8 ohm, and it's working good on a 400 mesh wick.

I will have to order a different size ribbon wire from Temco and try again to find the groove with it, but at one point I had a very nice vape going, with great flavor, with ribbon wire that someone else wound for me at a local B&M. I just need to find it again. It's clear now that .9 x .1 ribbon is not going to give me that.

Also, ribbon wire is a springy thing, and keeping it in contact with your wick all the way down the coil is not easy, even after you have annealed it with a torch, and it's also a pain to get locked down on the pos-neg ends. Even when you do you can get ohms creep and the resistance can change with the slightest thing. Just putting juice it your tank and vaping on it can change the ohms on you up or down. In my experience with an AGA-T2 it's usually up, but if your build is below .7 ohms it can also go down.

That's another reason to check your ohms at EVERY stage of your build.

So again, ribbon is a pain to deal with. On the other hand, 28 g. kanthal is pretty easy to wrap and delivers consistent results. Now I have heard I you can get 26 ga. kanthal, so I now have to try that. Oy!

It never ends...
 
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AutoMax

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It never ends...

Speaking of never ending.. I just rebuilt the rsst again lol. New setup seems to be the best so far (for me).

Will put it through a full days test tomorrow. Thanks for all the advise.


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JimzDogz

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Just wrapped 2mm silica with 400 mesh in my RSST. Wicks great and no dry burns when vaping long vapes or when chain vaping. Anybody else done this type of wick? May be a keeper. :)

I have used that type setup on my RSST. I went to that setup because of over wicking and spattering problems. I've been a genesis man since I started vaping. But yesterday I got a Kayfun clone by Tobeco, and I must say I'm impressed. I didn't believe anything could deliver the taste and vapor a geni can, but I was wrong.
 

muzichead

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So I decided to give the mesh a try again in my RSST, (first time didn't go too well)... I decided I would torch the mesh this time, instead of the pulse method. I think I know now what I did wrong and why I had such a metallic taste through the first 2 tanks... Doh... I wrapped me up a 5/64" macro coil @ 1.3Ω and cut down the mesh and rolled it up and slid it in the coil... I haven't really had the metallic taste until the tank is almost empty. Doing a genny tilt at that point is a must, (or stop being lazy and just fill the damn thing up), and vape on... I am really enjoying it for now, but think when I decide to put a new coil on I will use a few less wraps and try to get right at 1Ω...
 
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