marshmallow mint

[tcat594]

My butter mint recipe...

3% Capella Cool Mint
2% Flavour Art Whipped Cream
2% TFA Marshmallow
4% TFA Vanilla Swirl
2% TFA Butter
1 drop per 5mL TFA Sweetener

To me, this is a spot-on butter mint flavor. Just like the Brach's variety I used to pilfer from Grandma's secret stash.

i will defiantly have to try that out

 

[tcat594]

Don't know if we lost the OP or what but I've finally got this recipe dialed in to where I like it.

Marshmallow Mint
CAP Golden Butter 5%
TFA Marshmallow 5%
FA Mild Winter (Peppermint) 1%
TFA Toasted Marshmallow 2%
CAP Vanilla Custard v.1 5%

PG/VG: 35/65
Age: 3 weeks

Is it just like Scentsy Marshmallow Mint? No, not really because it's difficult to replicate the scent of essential oils with food flavors but it vapes nicely and I'm putting it into my regular rotation.

I tried this recipe, and like you said it vapes good, but i think im going to try to up the marshmallow and toasted marshmallow just a bit, ill let you know how it turns out

 

[Rin13]

Somewhat off-topic but Purilum's Butter mint flavor is pretty spot on and good by itself.

 

[ceeceeisme]

I tried this recipe, and like you said it vapes good, but i think im going to try to up the marshmallow and toasted marshmallow just a bit, ill let you know how it turns out

Can't hurt! I was vaping some of this on the weekend - it was aged about 5 weeks and I do find it gets fuller the longer it sits. Mind you as I was sampling it I was smacking my lips thinking, "this could use a tad more marshmallow"

Rin's suggestion might also work for you. A one shot flavor is always worth a try.

 

[tcat594]

Somewhat off-topic but Purilum's Butter mint flavor is pretty spot on and good by itself.

i will have to try that one

 

[tcat594]

Can't hurt! I was vaping some of this on the weekend - it was aged about 5 weeks and I do find it gets fuller the longer it sits. Mind you as I was sampling it I was smacking my lips thinking, "this could use a tad more marshmallow"

Rin's suggestion might also work for you. A one shot flavor is always worth a try.

yeah, i was thinking the same thing. im going to try bumping up the marshmallow by 1% and the toasted marshmallow by 1.5%

 

[tcat594]

Can't hurt! I was vaping some of this on the weekend - it was aged about 5 weeks and I do find it gets fuller the longer it sits. Mind you as I was sampling it I was smacking my lips thinking, "this could use a tad more marshmallow"

Rin's suggestion might also work for you. A one shot flavor is always worth a try.

After tweaking a couple things, I have found a recipe that i really like, it is really close to the Scentsy bar.
Here is the recipe.


(CAP) Golden Butter-5%
(TFA) Marshmallow-6%
(FA) Peppermint-1%
(TPA) Toasted Marshmallow-3.5%
(CAP) Vanilla Custard V1-5%

let steep for 3 weeks and it'll be good to go.
Let me know what you all think.

 

[ceeceeisme]

After tweaking a couple things, I have found a recipe that i really like, it is really close to the Scentsy bar.
Here is the recipe.


(CAP) Golden Butter-5%
(TFA) Marshmallow-6%
(FA) Peppermint-1%
(TPA) Toasted Marshmallow-3.5%
(CAP) Vanilla Custard V1-5%

let steep for 3 weeks and it'll be good to go.
Let me know what you all think.

Glad you found your happy place!

 

[IDJoel]

After tweaking a couple things, I have found a recipe that i really like, it is really close to the Scentsy bar.
Here is the recipe.


(CAP) Golden Butter-5%
(TFA) Marshmallow-6%
(FA) Peppermint-1%
(TPA) Toasted Marshmallow-3.5%
(CAP) Vanilla Custard V1-5%

let steep for 3 weeks and it'll be good to go.
Let me know what you all think.

After following this thread, as I have a strong memory fondness for butter mints, and though never smelled anything by Sentsy, I decided to give this a try. As seems to be my normal state of affairs; I am shy 2 ingredients (FA Mild Winter{Peppermint}, and TFA Toasted Marshmallow). So I subbed TFA Peppermint, and FW Toasted Marshmallow, at a 1:1 replacement ratio. This resulted in the following recipe:

I did a 30mL trial mix, so I could have enough to taste along the way, AND have enough to fiddle with after it has had time to mature.

These are my notes after the initial mix:
Courtesy of ECF collaboration. Primary collaborators (?): @ceeceeisme, @FACE MEAT & @tcat594. Thread: marshmallow mint

@ceeceeisme, & @tcat594 notes this is best after 3 weeks.

Substitution from Original Notes:
1. FA Peppermint (Mild Winter). I subbed TFA Peppermint (1:1) because I had on hand.
2. TFA Toasted Marshmallow. I subbed FW T.M. (1:1) because I had on hand.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6/6/17 Made 30mL trial batch with the above noted substitutions.
Added flavor concentrates and blended together with Badger.
Added PG and blended again.
Added nic (VG-base) concentrate and blended again.
Added VG and blended again. Warmed 5 seconds in microwave (to thin) and blended for 2 minutes. Transferred to 30mL unicorn bottle. UC'd for 2 3 minute cycles to remove air bubbles (needed room to finish pour).

Rebuilt the Derringer RDA with dual alien clapton coils (commercial) and wicked with organic cotton.

Initial tasting notes (approximately 3 hours after mixing):
Shows promise. Rather neutral on inhale; but has a nice (thicker) mouthfeel. Mint is present and pleasant on initial exhale. Butter and custard quickly overtake mint; leaving heavy butter, custard, and burnt (sight) caramel (I imagine this is from the toasted marshmallow). Vapor very thick and dense, much like a butter mint; all that is missing is the greasy coating of the mouth. Several repetitive puffs begin to produce a hot plastic/rubber taste/smell. This is definitely NOT a shake-n-vape and requires time to settle down. This is not unexpected with the use of so much VC1 and Butter.


Thing to look for in future tastings:
1. At nearly a 20% flavor profile; I am curious to try diluting a small amount AFTER it has reached maturity. Perhaps as much as half? This might help the cloying, almost overwhelming, "melted butter"/not-ready custard "funk." NOTE: This could solely (majorly?) be due to need for aging. DO NOT tweak UNTIL aging stabilizes!
2. Watch for the "caramel" presence to subside. This is not a desirable note, in this recipe, for me. If it remains; consider reducing, or eliminating, the Toasted Marshmallow.
3. Watch for the Peppermint to take a more continuous, consistent, presence throughout the vape. Strength is good but becomes overwhelmed by the "butter" component much too quickly. May need to reduce the "dairy" side of things if this remains. I don't think increasing the peppermint is the solution.
4. If this is still "missing something" after aging has subsided; consider a touch of vanilla of some sort. This might be my missing aromatic note I seem to be missing. TFA Vanillin might be good here. Alternatively; consider FACE MEAT's use of TFA Vanilla Swirl instead of VC1.

So, with that said as my original tasting notes, I have a couple of questions. I will direct these to @ceeceeisme, as she seems to be most experienced with this recipe development (no disrespect intended to all other contributors), and all thoughts/comments are most welcome:

1. What is the intent of the addition of the Toasted Marshmallow; especially at such a dominant percentage? Is this part of the "Sentsy" profile (which I am completely ignorant of); or does this mellow out after it has completed aging? I have never picked up on a "caramel" note in a butter mint.
2. Why did you choose to eliminate any additional "vanilla" note in the recipe? I would think this would help both the taste, as well as the aroma, in the overall profile?

Please note that these questions are preliminary; as I haven't let this naturally age yet. "Give it time!" is a perfectly acceptable and reasonable answer. I am only trying to get a better handle on how specific flavors contribute to the end result.

 

[ceeceeisme]

After following this thread, as I have a strong memory fondness for butter mints, and though never smelled anything by Sentsy, I decided to give this a try. As seems to be my normal state of affairs; I am shy 2 ingredients (FA Mild Winter{Peppermint}, and TFA Toasted Marshmallow). So I subbed TFA Peppermint, and FW Toasted Marshmallow, at a 1:1 replacement ratio. This resulted in the following recipe:
View attachment 662849

I did a 30mL trial mix, so I could have enough to taste along the way, AND have enough to fiddle with after it has had time to mature.

These are my notes after the initial mix:
Courtesy of ECF collaboration. Primary collaborators (?): @ceeceeisme, @FACE MEAT & @tcat594. Thread: marshmallow mint

@ceeceeisme, & @tcat594 notes this is best after 3 weeks.

Substitution from Original Notes:
1. FA Peppermint (Mild Winter). I subbed TFA Peppermint (1:1) because I had on hand.
2. TFA Toasted Marshmallow. I subbed FW T.M. (1:1) because I had on hand.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6/6/17 Made 30mL trial batch with the above noted substitutions.
Added flavor concentrates and blended together with Badger.
Added PG and blended again.
Added nic (VG-base) concentrate and blended again.
Added VG and blended again. Warmed 5 seconds in microwave (to thin) and blended for 2 minutes. Transferred to 30mL unicorn bottle. UC'd for 2 3 minute cycles to remove air bubbles (needed room to finish pour).

Rebuilt the Derringer RDA with dual alien clapton coils (commercial) and wicked with organic cotton.

Initial tasting notes (approximately 3 hours after mixing):
Shows promise. Rather neutral on inhale; but has a nice (thicker) mouthfeel. Mint is present and pleasant on initial exhale. Butter and custard quickly overtake mint; leaving heavy butter, custard, and burnt (sight) caramel (I imagine this is from the toasted marshmallow). Vapor very thick and dense, much like a butter mint; all that is missing is the greasy coating of the mouth. Several repetitive puffs begin to produce a hot plastic/rubber taste/smell. This is definitely NOT a shake-n-vape and requires time to settle down. This is not unexpected with the use of so much VC1 and Butter.


Thing to look for in future tastings:
1. At nearly a 20% flavor profile; I am curious to try diluting a small amount AFTER it has reached maturity. Perhaps as much as half? This might help the cloying, almost overwhelming, "melted butter"/not-ready custard "funk." NOTE: This could solely (majorly?) be due to need for aging. DO NOT tweak UNTIL aging stabilizes!
2. Watch for the "caramel" presence to subside. This is not a desirable note, in this recipe, for me. If it remains; consider reducing, or eliminating, the Toasted Marshmallow.
3. Watch for the Peppermint to take a more continuous, consistent, presence throughout the vape. Strength is good but becomes overwhelmed by the "butter" component much too quickly. May need to reduce the "dairy" side of things if this remains. I don't think increasing the peppermint is the solution.
4. If this is still "missing something" after aging has subsided; consider a touch of vanilla of some sort. This might be my missing aromatic note I seem to be missing. TFA Vanillin might be good here. Alternatively; consider FACE MEAT's use of TFA Vanilla Swirl instead of VC1.

So, with that said as my original tasting notes, I have a couple of questions. I will direct these to @ceeceeisme, as she seems to be most experienced with this recipe development (no disrespect intended to all other contributors), and all thoughts/comments are most welcome:

1. What is the intent of the addition of the Toasted Marshmallow; especially at such a dominant percentage? Is this part of the "Sentsy" profile (which I am completely ignorant of); or does this mellow out after it has completed aging? I have never picked up on a "caramel" note in a butter mint.
2. Why did you choose to eliminate any additional "vanilla" note in the recipe? I would think this would help both the taste, as well as the aroma, in the overall profile?

Please note that these questions are preliminary; as I haven't let this naturally age yet. "Give it time!" is a perfectly acceptable and reasonable answer. I am only trying to get a better handle on how specific flavors contribute to the end result.

Well, first of all, I threw the original recipe together on a whim based on what I remembered of Scentsy's Marshmallow Mint bars.

I had one of these bars last year and happened to have melted the last cube of it sometime in December. By the time this thread came up I had already thrown the package away so all I had was my memory to go on. To me, the scent is a thick, rich, sweet toasted marshmallow with notes of buttery mint. Since our gustatory perception is closely tied to our olfactory perception, this is a highly subjective assessment.

So yes, the intent of the Toasted Marshmallow was because to me, that is the overall dominant scent I got from the Scentsy Marshmallow Mint bar. Not straight marshmallow per se, but rather caramelized marshmallow. I thought that toasted marshmallow would get me there but taste is just not the same as scent, no matter how closely tied they happen to be.

After having made 6 or 7 different iterations of the recipe (10 ml at a time) and adding and changing up ingredients, I decided that the K.I.S.S. approach might work better so I simplified the recipe and tried again. Would the addition of some vanilla take it to the next level? Yes, definitely! I was tossing around the idea of adding 1% Holy Vanilla (DIYFS) or 1% Vanilla Cream (Inawera) to enhance the overall flavor. I was vaping some of this stuff on the weekend and I bored of it before I hit the bottom of a 4 ml tank so I knew that something else was still needed. I'm also going to scale back the peppermint aspect to about 0.5% FA Mild Winter because it's just too much for me. I only want a hint of peppermint - - for others 1% may be just fine.

This has turned out to be an "in-between" flavor for me as I'm not a big fan of vaping "minty". As much as I love actual mint candies and flavors in food, when vaping it I bore rather quickly.

 

[IDJoel]

To me, the scent is a thick, rich, sweet toasted marshmallow with notes of buttery mint. Since our gustatory perception is closely tied to our olfactory perception, this is a highly subjective assessment.

So yes, the intent of the Toasted Marshmallow was because to me, that is the overall dominant scent I got from the Scentsy Marshmallow Mint bar. Not straight marshmallow per se, but rather caramelized marshmallow. I thought that toasted marshmallow would get me there but taste is just not the same as scent, no matter how closely tied they happen to be.

Fair enough (and why I asked; as I have never been exposed to OP's Scentsy scent). All I can think of is butter mint candies; and that is not truly fair to this thread. Please, don't take my question about the inclusion of Toasted Marshmallow as criticism, only a genuine question. I fully expect substantial change as this has a chance to mature. I just didn't understand what the finished profile should be. Thank you for the more detailed description.

Would the addition of some vanilla take it to the next level? Yes, definitely! I was tossing around the idea of adding 1% Holy Vanilla (DIYFS) or 1% Vanilla Cream (Inawera) to enhance the overall flavor.

I was thinking TFA Vanillin, to add the "thought" of vanilla, without throwing another "major player" into the pool. I am afraid I have no experience with either the Holy Vanilla, or the INW Vanilla Cream. I would love to hear your results if you explore this further.

I was vaping some of this stuff on the weekend and I bored of it before I hit the bottom of a 4 ml tank so I knew that something else was still needed. I'm also going to scale back the peppermint aspect to about 0.5% FA Mild Winter because it's just too much for me. I only want a hint of peppermint - - for others 1% may be just fine.

This has turned out to be an "in-between" flavor for me as I'm not a big fan of vaping "minty". As much as I love actual mint candies and flavors in food, when vaping it I bore rather quickly.

For me; k.i.s.s. applies doubly so for mints. Unlike you; I enjoy vaping them. They were the first ADV I could tolerate (without hitting the proverbial wall) and got me off the stinkies. Tobaccos made me jones for a cigarette, and fruits were too sweet and tended toward burnout for me.

Mints tend to get to muddled too quickly (for me), so I need to keep them relatively simple. I seem to be a near opposite of you, in that I don't much care for mint candies, but I enjoy vaping simple mint vapes. That is part of the problem I have with this recipe in its early state (again; I acknowledge that this needs some true shelf time before I can offer a honest critique), in that the butter and custard notes devour any early presence of the TFA Peppermint (but that may be partially (entirely?) due to to my subbing TFA Peppermint for the FA Mild Winter). I have no experience with FA Mild Winter so I don't have any idea how they compare.

I appreciate the expanded explanation, as well as your own results, and thoughts for future efforts. Thank you so much for sharing!

 

[ceeceeisme]

Please, don't take my question about the inclusion of Toasted Marshmallow as criticism, only a genuine question.

No worries, I didn't take it as a criticism! Toasted Marshmallow was my knee-jerk reaction to how can I make this scent a vape recipe. I think it has a place in the recipe, just not as high as I initially thought.

I was thinking TFA Vanillin, to add the "thought" of vanilla, without throwing another "major player" into the pool. I am afraid I have no experience with either the Holy Vanilla, or the INW Vanilla Cream. I would love to hear your results if you explore this further.

I have no experience with TFA Vanillin but you'd be on the money if it only adds vanilla without any extra "cream". Holy Vanilla at 1% will add that touch of vanilla that's missing without throwing an extra cream flavor into the equation. 1% INW Vanilla Cream will add vanilla and a noticeable touch of cream. I was thinking that I would try a 10ml tester with each variation and see which one I like better. Don't know when I'll get around to that but I will try to remember to report back. I'm mixed so far ahead (again) I've sworn off any mixing for the month of June.

Mints tend to get to muddled too quickly (for me), so I need to keep them relatively simple. I seem to be a near opposite of you, in that I don't much care for mint candies, but I enjoy vaping simple mint vapes. That is part of the problem I have with this recipe in its early state (again; I acknowledge that this needs some true shelf time before I can offer a honest critique), in that the butter and custard notes devour any early presence of the TFA Peppermint (but that may be partially (entirely?) due to to my subbing TFA Peppermint for the FA Mild Winter). I have no experience with FA Mild Winter so I don't have any idea how they compare.

lol... TFA Peppermint is another one I don't have. To me, FA Mild Winter is very pepperminty at 1%... too pepperminty really. But then I'm one of those people who gets mint/menthol from Koolada - - even at 0.25% I can taste mint.

I only have one ADV with "minty" in it and it's a commercial e-liquid that I've not tried cloning yet. I still have 5 bottles of it here and it remains the only commercial juice I vape. I also vape @6steelstrings Extreme Ice and Vanilla Custard recipe but again, it's an "in-between" vape for me.

I don't know why I bought the 4 bottles of minty type flavors I have here. In hind-sight, I was on a flavor buying frenzy for many months and couldn't keep up mixing and trying what I had before I was back filling my cart with more stuff.

Lesson learned!

 

[tcat594]

Fair enough (and why I asked; as I have never been exposed to OP's Scentsy scent). All I can think of is butter mint candies; and that is not truly fair to this thread. Please, don't take my question about the inclusion of Toasted Marshmallow as criticism, only a genuine question. I fully expect substantial change as this has a chance to mature. I just didn't understand what the finished profile should be. Thank you for the more detailed description.

I was thinking TFA Vanillin, to add the "thought" of vanilla, without throwing another "major player" into the pool. I am afraid I have no experience with either the Holy Vanilla, or the INW Vanilla Cream. I would love to hear your results if you explore this further.

For me; k.i.s.s. applies doubly so for mints. Unlike you; I enjoy vaping them. They were the first ADV I could tolerate (without hitting the proverbial wall) and got me off the stinkies. Tobaccos made me jones for a cigarette, and fruits were too sweet and tended toward burnout for me.

Mints tend to get to muddled too quickly (for me), so I need to keep them relatively simple. I seem to be a near opposite of you, in that I don't much care for mint candies, but I enjoy vaping simple mint vapes. That is part of the problem I have with this recipe in its early state (again; I acknowledge that this needs some true shelf time before I can offer a honest critique), in that the butter and custard notes devour any early presence of the TFA Peppermint (but that may be partially (entirely?) due to to my subbing TFA Peppermint for the FA Mild Winter). I have no experience with FA Mild Winter so I don't have any idea how they compare.

I appreciate the expanded explanation, as well as your own results, and thoughts for future efforts. Thank you so much for sharing!

I just wanted to chime in a bit on the Scnetsy profile since I am very familiar with all their product. I am exposed to it pretty much every day. The marshmallow mint sent is a sweet marshmallow dominate note with a noticeable but mild butter mint as a back note. And after watching your comments, I am also thinking maybe cutting back on the toasted marshmallow and maybe adding some vanilla to sweeten up the marshmallow a bit. I was also thinking on maybe substituting the golden butter with butter cream. But that is just a thought. I don't have a lot of experience with coming up with different flavors and how they interact with each other which is why I started this thread to get some insight from more experienced mixers do get as much opinions as i could. So everything everyone posts on here I have been listening to and soaking it all in with the hopes that we can figure out a good recipe together. You comments has been very helpful as much as @ceeceeisme has helped me. But defiantly let us know your opinions as it steeps more. I look forward to hearing them all from everyone.

 

[IDJoel]

The marshmallow mint sent is a sweet marshmallow dominate note with a noticeable but mild butter mint as a back note. And after watching your comments, I am also thinking maybe cutting back on the toasted marshmallow and maybe adding some vanilla to sweeten up the marshmallow a bit. I was also thinking on maybe substituting the golden butter with butter cream.

Thanks for the added description; because I am working with the handicap of being completely clueless about Scentsy products, every little bit of additional info helps!

Here is what I am now imagining based on your additional description:
1.Defined noticeable "fresh" marshmallow (vs. a "campfire" toasted/caramelized marshmallow)(though @ceeceeisme recalls a distinct "toasted" marshmallow). "Fresh" does seem to match most images associated with the Scentsy product.
2. Butter Mint is only a light, subtle, secondary "background note.

I had one of these bars last year and happened to have melted the last cube of it sometime in December. By the time this thread came up I had already thrown the package away so all I had was my memory to go on. To me, the scent is a thick, rich, sweet toasted marshmallow with notes of buttery mint. Since our gustatory perception is closely tied to our olfactory perception, this is a highly subjective assessment.

Additional thoughts, and considerations, from @ceeceeisme's previous image, and description (quoted above for easy reference):
The image kind of makes me wonder because I see three things represented: the marshmallow (fresh not toasted, Heath bar/toffee with chocolate, and a caramel/cream or caramel/vanilla swirled candy of some sort. I recall ceecee used a caramel in her first effort; but that was abandoned without comment. And, of course, her vivid recollection of toasted vs. fresh marshmallow. Further, the Scentsy description: "Buttermint and marshmallow make merry beneath an amber veil," strengthens my belief that there is a caramel, and/or, toffee element in this.

So, taking these two expanded descriptions, I am now thinking:
Primary Flavor:

• Marshmallow. Regular ("fresh"), or Toasted, or some combination of each.
• Vanilla. A vanilla, or vanillin, might be useful here (in small amounts) to bring out more actual flavor to the marshmallow.

Secondary Flavors:

• Peppermint. This appears to be a no-brainer other than "how much."
• Butter/buttercream? This may/may not be necessary; as the caramel, or toffee might contribute the needed "butter" note.
• Caramel. Caramel can add to the warm burnt (caramelized) sugar note which might be part of the "toasted marshmallow" that ceecee is remembering. Caramel quickly can dominate lighter flavors so this will need to be added at extremely low percentages (0.25% or even less?)
• Toffee. Toffee is similar to the caramel in that is can contribute the caramelized sugar and butter notes. Toffee and caramel might be an "either/or," or both. TFA's English toffee intrigues me here; in that it is a full "Heath Bar" concentrate that includes hints of chocolate and nuts. Again; use only in extremely low percentages.
  
• Vanilla. Vanilla is as much a contributor to smell as it is to taste. I think a vanilla "accentuator" like TFA Vanillin would be beneficial to bring out the preexisting vanilla in the marshmallow and creams. Other vanillas may be considered if vanillin is inadequate (perhaps something light like CAP Vanilla Whipped Cream?).
• Additional Dairy (creams and custards). I would only consider these if the "body" of the e-liquid is still too thin. To me, creams don't have much aroma in and of themselves.
• Ethyl Maltol (EM). This is an ingredient is often a double-edged sword. It can lend to the "sugariness" (not as much "sweet" as "sugar") in a recipe; but it can also mute other flavors (especially subtle ones). I would work without this, and only try if I needed that extra sugar bolus.
• Sweetener (sucralose, stevia, et al). Like the EM; I would only use this as the "final piece" to the puzzle. I think the concentrates will have sufficient sweetness but might be the thing that take the recipe from "good" to "great." But again, only consider adding if the rest of the recipe is as good as it is going to get, and still needs a bit more sweet.

Marshmallows are kind of a weird duck. They are basically made from sugar, corn syrup, gelatin, vanilla, and a touch of salt; yet they have a unique, and very definable, "marshmallow" smell. I really can't explain why, or where it comes from, other than it has to be from the interaction of those ingredients plus heat.

So; how would I go about developing this from scratch? First, since I have identified the marshmallow as being what I want front-and-center, I would focus solely on that and forget about the whole butter mint side of things.

Part of the problem is that Marshmallow is a fairly light/delicate/subtle(?) smell, and can easily be overwhelmed by other, more dominating flavors (kind of like what @ceeceeisme is concerned about with the mint). This is even more so with marshmallow flavor concentrates. Look at concentrate reviews, and you will see the majority of them seem to use Marshmallow for mouthfeel (as a "thickener"), instead of an actual flavor.

I am guessing that this is going to develop best by using multiple marshmallow concentrates. Perhaps, something like TFA Marshmallow+FA Marshmallow+FW Toasted Marshmallow (I prefer FW to TFA as it has more of a "caramelization" vs. "burnt char" aspect to it when compared to TFA), to get all the nuances of the Scentsy marshmallow aroma.

To do this, it will be helpful to know how each marshmallow tastes on its own, then I can know what each is contributing to the mix of two, or more, as well as give me a better feel for what percentages I may want to use. Once I understand the individual marshmallow candidates, I can then start experimenting with the combining of them.

Once I have the marshmallow "base" optimized I can then look at adding additional supporting/accent flavors. I would probably start with just the caramel, or toffee, because this may actually fill out the marshmallow further (or even be a complete flop and tossed from potential players). Again, I am guessing, but this might meet the "butter" requirements of the overall recipe profile, and eliminate (or at least reduce) the need for a separate butter ingredient.

When I am thinking of caramel, or toffee here, I am thinking of it contributing more of that warm, buttery, smell/taste of cooking caramel/toffee; verses the stronger, more dominating flavor, of the finished candy. Less is definitely going to be better than more here. As little a 0.1% may be the ticket. The possibility of just a hint of chocolate and nut (more "aroma" than "taste." Just the suggestion is what I am after) from TFA English Toffee is stuck in my mind; so that is probably where I would start.

Then, and only then, would I consider the addition of a further butter, or cream note (and those in minimum quantities too), remember that each addition is also diluting the marshmallow base as well.

Once I get the full, decadent, marshmallow figured out, then it should be a simple matter of adding the mint, and figuring out how much of a presence I want it to have.

Note: It would not surprise me at all, if the total of all secondary flavors is only 25% (or even less) of the marshmallow base total percentage, in order to let the marshmallow keep center stage. In other words, if I have concentrate(s) equaling 8% to make up my "perfect" marshmallow, all butters, vanillas, mints, and creams will equal 2% or less (2% being 25 percent of 8%). Otherwise I think you are likely to lose the marshmallow.

That would be my game plan. I all but wiped myself out of TFA Marshmallow on my last mix so it will be some time before I able to play with this further.
DISCLAIMER: This is ONLY how I would go about developing it. It is NOT "the right way," or "the best way," it is only what works for me. Others may share different methods and deserve every bit the same consideration. Find what works best for you.

But that is just a thought. I don't have a lot of experience with coming up with different flavors and how they interact with each other which is why I started this thread to get some insight from more experienced mixers do get as much opinions as i could.

Nothing wrong with that at all. To me, you are simply being smart, to seek input from those with more experience. That is one of the great benefits of a community like ECF; it provides a wonderful network of a wide range of experience. You only deprive yourself by not asking.

Do keep in mind that other's experience will only go so far though because personal taste, and preference, are so individual. NOTHING can replace your own participation and observation. What may be divine to me could very well be vile to you.

defiantly let us know your opinions as it steeps more

Okay; 48 hour update for the mix I made in post #49:
It has already settled down significantly. I am now getting a noticeable "cool" from the mint on inhale though I am not tasting actual mint (it is very similar to the cool one gets from koolada). On exhale; the mint begins to come out along with the cool, as well as much more tempered butter and custard notes. I am no longer getting nearly as strong a "burning plastic/rubber" though there is still just a hint (from the Toasted Marshmallow perhaps? I expect this to be gone completely before long). The heavy custard and butter are still completely overwhelming any suggestion that there is marshmallow in this; let alone is supposed to be a marshmallow-dominant vape. I am getting a bit of the caramelization (much better balance compared to original tasting) from the Toasted Marshmallow; but no marshmallow its self. There is something in this that sits unpleasantly "heavy" in what I expected would be a fairly light and "fluffy" profile (of course that very well could go away as it continues to age). Sweetness is good and I see no further need/desire for additional sweeteners at this time.

As this settles down, my early thoughts are; that the Butter needs to be ramped way back (or even eliminated?) because I am getting more of a "melted" movie popcorn butter taste than the smell of butter browning in a pan with sugar. I also suspect it of being the chief contributor of the unwanted heaviness. Likewise, I think this might do without the CAP Vanilla Custard; I think this is too dominant of a flavor (heavy, thick, righ, with a touch of "egginess") for what it is supposed to be contributing. CAP Butter Cream might be a better option to replace both. Or, reduce the Butter (down to 1% or even less?), and then add CAP Vanilla Whipped Cream to introduce a little extra vanilla while keeping it light.

I will still give this the full three weeks before passing final judgment. Please remember these are only my current thoughts as this mix continues to age and develop.

 

[tcat594]

Thanks for the added description; because I am working with the handicap of being completely clueless about Scentsy products, every little bit of additional info helps!

Here is what I am now imagining based on your additional description:1.Defined noticeable "fresh" marshmallow (vs. a "campfire" toasted/caramelized marshmallow)(though @ceeceeisme recalls a distinct "toasted" marshmallow). "Fresh" does seem to match most images associated with the Scentsy product.
2. Butter Mint is only a light, subtle, secondary "background note.


Additional thoughts, and considerations, from @ceeceeisme's previous image, and description (quoted above for easy reference):
The image kind of makes me wonder because I see three things represented: the marshmallow (fresh not toasted, Heath bar/toffee with chocolate, and a caramel/cream or caramel/vanilla swirled candy of some sort. I recall ceecee used a caramel in her first effort; but that was abandoned without comment. And, of course, her vivid recollection of toasted vs. fresh marshmallow. Further, the Scentsy description: "Buttermint and marshmallow make merry beneath an amber veil," strengthens my belief that there is a caramel, and/or, toffee element in this.

So, taking these two expanded descriptions, I am now thinking:
Primary Flavor:

• Marshmallow. Regular ("fresh"), or Toasted, or some combination of each.
• Vanilla. A vanilla, or vanillin, might be useful here (in small amounts) to bring out more actual flavor to the marshmallow.

Secondary Flavors:

• Peppermint. This appears to be a no-brainer other than "how much."
• Butter/buttercream? This may/may not be necessary; as the caramel, or toffee might contribute the needed "butter" note.
• Caramel. Caramel can add to the warm burnt (caramelized) sugar note which might be part of the "toasted marshmallow" that ceecee is remembering. Caramel quickly can dominate lighter flavors so this will need to be added at extremely low percentages (0.25% or even less?)
• Toffee. Toffee is similar to the caramel in that is can contribute the caramelized sugar and butter notes. Toffee and caramel might be an "either/or," or both. TFA's English toffee intrigues me here; in that it is a full "Heath Bar" concentrate that includes hints of chocolate and nuts. Again; use only in extremely low percentages.
  
• Vanilla. Vanilla is as much a contributor to smell as it is to taste. I think a vanilla "accentuator" like TFA Vanillin would be beneficial to bring out the preexisting vanilla in the marshmallow and creams. Other vanillas may be considered if vanillin is inadequate (perhaps something light like CAP Vanilla Whipped Cream?).
• Additional Dairy (creams and custards). I would only consider these if the "body" of the e-liquid is still too thin. To me, creams don't have much aroma in and of themselves.
• Ethyl Maltol (EM). This is an ingredient is often a double-edged sword. It can lend to the "sugariness" (not as much "sweet" as "sugar") in a recipe; but it can also mute other flavors (especially subtle ones). I would work without this, and only try if I needed that extra sugar bolus.
• Sweetener (sucralose, stevia, et al). Like the EM; I would only use this as the "final piece" to the puzzle. I think the concentrates will have sufficient sweetness but might be the thing that take the recipe from "good" to "great." But again, only consider adding if the rest of the recipe is as good as it is going to get, and still needs a bit more sweet.

Marshmallows are kind of a weird duck. They are basically made from sugar, corn syrup, gelatin, vanilla, and a touch of salt; yet they have a unique, and very definable, "marshmallow" smell. I really can't explain why, or where it comes from, other than it has to be from the interaction of those ingredients plus heat.

So; how would I go about developing this from scratch? First, since I have identified the marshmallow as being what I want front-and-center, I would focus solely on that and forget about the whole butter mint side of things.

Part of the problem is that Marshmallow is a fairly light/delicate/subtle(?) smell, and can easily be overwhelmed by other, more dominating flavors (kind of like what @ceeceeisme is concerned about with the mint). This is even more so with marshmallow flavor concentrates. Look at concentrate reviews, and you will see the majority of them seem to use Marshmallow for mouthfeel (as a "thickener"), instead of an actual flavor.

I am guessing that this is going to develop best by using multiple marshmallow concentrates. Perhaps, something like TFA Marshmallow+FA Marshmallow+FW Toasted Marshmallow (I prefer FW to TFA as it has more of a "caramelization" vs. "burnt char" aspect to it when compared to TFA), to get all the nuances of the Scentsy marshmallow aroma.

To do this, it will be helpful to know how each marshmallow tastes on its own, then I can know what each is contributing to the mix of two, or more, as well as give me a better feel for what percentages I may want to use. Once I understand the individual marshmallow candidates, I can then start experimenting with the combining of them.

Once I have the marshmallow "base" optimized I can then look at adding additional supporting/accent flavors. I would probably start with just the caramel, or toffee, because this may actually fill out the marshmallow further (or even be a complete flop and tossed from potential players). Again, I am guessing, but this might meet the "butter" requirements of the overall recipe profile, and eliminate (or at least reduce) the need for a separate butter ingredient.

When I am thinking of caramel, or toffee here, I am thinking of it contributing more of that warm, buttery, smell/taste of cooking caramel/toffee; verses the stronger, more dominating flavor, of the finished candy. Less is definitely going to be better than more here. As little a 0.1% may be the ticket. The possibility of just a hint of chocolate and nut (more "aroma" than "taste." Just the suggestion is what I am after) from TFA English Toffee is stuck in my mind; so that is probably where I would start.

Then, and only then, would I consider the addition of a further butter, or cream note (and those in minimum quantities too), remember that each addition is also diluting the marshmallow base as well.

Once I get the full, decadent, marshmallow figured out, then it should be a simple matter of adding the mint, and figuring out how much of a presence I want it to have.

Note: It would not surprise me at all, if the total of all secondary flavors is only 25% (or even less) of the marshmallow base total percentage, in order to let the marshmallow keep center stage. In other words, if I have concentrate(s) equaling 8% to make up my "perfect" marshmallow, all butters, vanillas, mints, and creams will equal 2% or less (2% being 25 percent of 8%). Otherwise I think you are likely to lose the marshmallow.

That would be my game plan. I all but wiped myself out of TFA Marshmallow on my last mix so it will be some time before I able to play with this further.
DISCLAIMER: This is ONLY how I would go about developing it. It is NOT "the right way," or "the best way," it is only what works for me. Others may share different methods and deserve every bit the same consideration. Find what works best for you.

Nothing wrong with that at all. To me, you are simply being smart, to seek input from those with more experience. That is one of the great benefits of a community like ECF; it provides a wonderful network of a wide range of experience. You only deprive yourself by not asking.

Do keep in mind that other's experience will only go so far though because personal taste, and preference, are so individual. NOTHING can replace your own participation and observation. What may be divine to me could very well be vile to you.

Okay; 48 hour update for the mix I made in post #49:
It has already settled down significantly. I am now getting a noticeable "cool" from the mint on inhale though I am not tasting actual mint (it is very similar to the cool one gets from koolada). On exhale; the mint begins to come out along with the cool, as well as much more tempered butter and custard notes. I am no longer getting nearly as strong a "burning plastic/rubber" though there is still just a hint (from the Toasted Marshmallow perhaps? I expect this to be gone completely before long). The heavy custard and butter are still completely overwhelming any suggestion that there is marshmallow in this; let alone is supposed to be a marshmallow-dominant vape. I am getting a bit of the caramelization (much better balance compared to original tasting) from the Toasted Marshmallow; but no marshmallow its self. There is something in this that sits unpleasantly "heavy" in what I expected would be a fairly light and "fluffy" profile (of course that very well could go away as it continues to age). Sweetness is good and I see no further need/desire for additional sweeteners at this time.

As this settles down, my early thoughts are; that the Butter needs to be ramped way back (or even eliminated?) because I am getting more of a "melted" movie popcorn butter taste than the smell of butter browning in a pan with sugar. I also suspect it of being the chief contributor of the unwanted heaviness. Likewise, I think this might do without the CAP Vanilla Custard; I think this is too dominant of a flavor (heavy, thick, righ, with a touch of "egginess") for what it is supposed to be contributing. CAP Butter Cream might be a better option to replace both. Or, reduce the Butter (down to 1% or even less?), and then add CAP Vanilla Whipped Cream to introduce a little extra vanilla while keeping it light.

I will still give this the full three weeks before passing final judgment. Please remember these are only my current thoughts as this mix continues to age and develop.

I to have thought about substituting the butter with butter cream, and maybe adding some vanilla bean ice cream in the mix to add to the vanilla, but I am not sure if adding both of those flavors will give it a heavy creamy taste or what it would do. I do how ever have some caramel that I could add into it and see how that would blend with the marshmallow. After almost 4 weeks of steeping just by smelling it and not actually vaping it, I do smell the marshmallow and butter over everything else. But when i did vape it just after 3 weeks what i tasted was a good amount of marshmallow with a cool light minty back note, and to me it was pretty close to the scentsy bar. But maybe changing some things up a little bit could make it better and just put it over the top. It also would hurt to cut down on all the flavors so I don't burn through them too quickly. but since I only have vanilla custard and vanilla bean ice cream (for my main mix that I vape,) I will defiantly have to get some sort of straight vanilla flavoring to incorporate into this and future mixes that I may be doing.

 

[IDJoel]

I to have thought about substituting the butter with butter cream, and maybe adding some vanilla bean ice cream in the mix to add to the vanilla, but I am not sure if adding both of those flavors will give it a heavy creamy taste or what it would do.

It was your previous mention of CAP Butter Cream that made me take a look at it. I have it in my flavor stash but have not used it much, so I read descriptions, and reviews on multiple sites, and I agree that this my work.

If I were going to try subbing both; I would replace the butter {edit to remove duplicate wording} with butter cream, and replace the VC1 with the VBIC. I don't think you are going to want VC1 AND VBIC. Personally, my own preference would be to change only one ingredient at a time, so I could more accurately judge what effect each change has.

I do how ever have some caramel that I could add into it and see how that would blend with the marshmallow.

Just remember to start at really low percentages. I would probably start at only 0.25% and even that may be too much. Depending on which caramels you have; they can quickly overpower less dominant flavors.

After almost 4 weeks of steeping just by smelling it and not actually vaping it, I do smell the marshmallow and butter over everything else. But when i did vape it just after 3 weeks what i tasted was a good amount of marshmallow with a cool light minty back note, and to me it was pretty close to the scentsy bar.

And this is where personal experience, AND preference, can not be replaced. My thoughts and opinions are ONLY based on what I think it smells like, whereas you know what it smells like; and I am suggesting changes based only on what I think you want the end result to be, while only you know what you want it to be.

If you are going to experiment with changes, make sure you have good notes (both of what has worked so far, as well as what changes you are implementing, and why), so you can always return to the "better" result. You are not designing a recipe for commercial consumption that has to appeal to the masses. Yours is the only opinion that matters!

But maybe changing some things up a little bit could make it better and just put it over the top. It also wouldn't (I fixed the typo for ya') hurt to cut down on all the flavors so I don't burn through them too quickly.

For me, tweaking a recipe, is where I learn the most about how concentrates act, and react. Other just find it tedious.
As for reducing the flavors; here is a fairly simple way to see if it is feasible:
Mix up a small amount of unflavored base at your preferred ratios (PG, VG, and nic only)(if you don't already have on hand). You will use this to dilute the recipe you already have on hand.
Take 0.75mL of the aged recipe and mix with 0.25mL of the unflavored base. This results in a 3:1 ratio and provides you with a 1mL sample at 25% dilution.
In another bottle, take 0.50mL of the aged recipe, and mix with 0.50mL of the unflavored base. This results in a 1:1 ratio and provides you with a 1mL sample at 50% dilution.
In a third bottle, take 0.25mL of the aged recipe, and mix with 0.75mL of the unflavored base. This results in a 1:3 ratio and provides you with a 1mL sample at 75% dilution.

These three samples use very little product, will give you immediate feedback (no need for further aging), and will give you a ballpark idea of how much you can cut back (if you want to cut back at all).

but since I only have vanilla custard and vanilla bean ice cream (for my main mix that I vape,) I will defiantly have to get some sort of straight vanilla flavoring to incorporate into this and future mixes that I may be doing.

And there rises the evil head of DIY! "MUST... HAVE... MORE... FLAVORS..." <thud; face-plant>. I have found that, what works best for me (when shopping for flavors not specific to a specific recipe), is to have an idea of what I want the flavor to contribute ("light, airy, vanilla" vs. "heavy, thick, vanilla"), and then go to sites like Bull City Flavors, Ecig Express, RTS, or Wizard Labs (sites that offer a broad range of flavors and preferably with reviews... Wizard's only short coming; no reviews), and then type in the key word ("vanilla" for the previous example), and start reading.

Doing this has surprised me more than once. What I thought a flavor was going to offer based on the name; turns out to do something entirely different. Meanwhile, other flavors I never would have known of, begin to reveal themselves. Then, before purchasing, I will cross-check flavor reviews on ECF (and other forums). Once I feel I am as educated as I can be short of actually tasting it I pull the trigger.

One other thing I have learned to do is to include a note to the newly listed concentrate as to "why" I bought it ("for use in recipe "X"", or "to contribute mouthfeel," or "boosts the flavor of flavor "Y""). That way, when it arrives a week or two later, I remember why I ordered it in the first place. Or, if I don't get to it right away, 9 months later I have a clue as to what I wanted it for.

 

[tcat594]

It was your previous mention of CAP Butter Cream that made me take a look at it. I have it in my flavor stash but have not used it much, so I read descriptions, and reviews on multiple sites, and I agree that this my work.

If I were going to try subbing both; I would replace the butter with the butter with butter cream, and replace the VC1 with the VBIC. I don't think you are going to want VC1 AND VBIC. Personally, my own preference would be to change only one ingredient at a time, so I could more accurately judge what effect each change has.

Just remember to start at really low percentages. I would probably start at only 0.25% and even that may be too much. Depending on which caramels you have; they can quickly overpower less dominant flavors.

And this is where personal experience, AND preference, can not be replaced. My thoughts and opinions are ONLY based on what I think it smells like, whereas you know what it smells like; and I am suggesting changes based only on what I think you want the end result to be, while only you know what you want it to be.

If you are going to experiment with changes, make sure you have good notes (both of what has worked so far, as well as what changes you are implementing, and why), so you can always return to the "better" result. You are not designing a recipe for commercial consumption that has to appeal to the masses. Yours is the only opinion that matters!

For me, tweaking a recipe, is where I learn the most about how concentrates act, and react. Other just find it tedious.
As for reducing the flavors; here is a fairly simple way to see if it is feasible:
Mix up a small amount of unflavored base at your preferred ratios (PG, VG, and nic only)(if you don't already have on hand). You will use this to dilute the recipe you already have on hand.
Take 0.75mL of the aged recipe and mix with 0.25mL of the unflavored base. This results in a 3:1 ratio and provides you with a 1mL sample at 25% dilution.
In another bottle, take 0.50mL of the aged recipe, and mix with 0.50mL of the unflavored base. This results in a 1:1 ratio and provides you with a 1mL sample at 50% dilution.
In a third bottle, take 0.25mL of the aged recipe, and mix with 0.75mL of the unflavored base. This results in a 1:3 ratio and provides you with a 1mL sample at 75% dilution.

These three samples use very little product, will give you immediate feedback (no need for further aging), and will give you a ballpark idea of how much you can cut back (if you want to cut back at all).

And there rises the evil head of DIY! "MUST... HAVE... MORE... FLAVORS..." <thud; face-plant>. I have found that, what works best for me (when shopping for flavors not specific to a specific recipe), is to have an idea of what I want the flavor to contribute ("light, airy, vanilla" vs. "heavy, thick, vanilla"), and then go to sites like Bull City Flavors, Ecig Express, RTS, or Wizard Labs (sites that offer a broad range of flavors and preferably with reviews... Wizard's only short coming; no reviews), and then type in the key word ("vanilla" for the previous example), and start reading.

Doing this has surprised me more than once. What I thought a flavor was going to offer based on the name; turns out to do something entirely different. Meanwhile, other flavors I never would have known of, begin to reveal themselves. Then, before purchasing, I will cross-check flavor reviews on ECF (and other forums). Once I feel I am as educated as I can be short of actually tasting it I pull the trigger.

One other thing I have learned to do is to include a note to the newly listed concentrate as to "why" I bought it ("for use in recipe "X"", or "to contribute mouthfeel," or "boosts the flavor of flavor "Y""). That way, when it arrives a week or two later, I remember why I ordered it in the first place. Or, if I don't get to it right away, 9 months later I have a clue as to what I wanted it for.

Thanks for the advice, I will be trying both of those for all future mixes as well as this mix.