Maybe sooner than we want

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VpnDrgn

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At first the FDA tried to say PV's are a "device to stop smoking" and could be regulated as a drug delivery device instead of the much looser tobacco regs, so everyone changed their websites to say "smoking alternative". Now the FDA has used customers own comments on websites to point out that PV's are being used to stop smoking so that allows them to be regulated as a drug. The letter to JC was a fine example of "spin" of the worst kind. They took bits and pieces of several regs and tied them to customers own comments on the website to build a viewpoint of "untested drugs" being sold with "no usage instructions" or any "quality control" being used by the vendor.
Any ignorant or uninformed political entity reading this drek, is sure to give the FDA all the control they want to shut everybody down.

Now it looks like they have put two strings to their bow; The first being of course the argument that as a drug, e-juice must be subjected to stringent testing and trials to make sure it is safe. They know that 90% of the vendors can't afford this type of testing and of course the FDA will drag it out as long as it takes to kill off the 10% that can. Any person with any common sense ought to be able to see that if e-juice or the basic principle of vapeing were truly dangerous, the FDA would have shut this down years ago.

The second string is less obvious. If the FDA looses its battle in the courts over the question of "drug or tobacco", it looks like they are laying the ground work for such stringent procedures for processing e-juice that again, most vendors will not be able to comply. Of course Big Tobacco and Pharma already have these procedures in place.
I'm talking about - testing and certification of all materials from outside mnf's - random in-house testing of same materials for quality control - testing each batch of processed materials for conformity, uniformity and contamination - controlled environment for storage and processing of materials ( at the minimum this would require seperate rooms for storage with closed systems for mixing liquids and an airlock with all kinds of filters for air control and all employees wearing PPE than can get expensive very quick )
Just the testing for nic levels in processed e-juice would be very expensive and it would have to be done often. Someone like MS T's would not be able to comply or afford the equipment to do so.

Looks like it is time to start stock piling juice and cartos as the FDA is finally going to shut down all the little guys and let Big T and Pharma take over. I just wonder how long it will take to establish a black market for e-juice.

Psst; Hey mister, wanna buy some "juice"?!
 

DLite

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The FDA should be banned for causing nothing but harm to something that has indeed helped numerous people quit something so deadly. I'm the FDA lets hurt the ECig world but give free needles to junkies to kill themselves in a safe manner but lets take something away from everyone that is all around good for everyone.
 

asharp22

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and this is why DIY should be learned, also where to pic up the materials at a physical location, and how to mod. I think there will be youtube videos on how to make your own attys and batts if this ever happens, and if there isn't there should be! someone will be outraged enough by losing their company over FDA regulations that they'll post how to make it. FDA can't ban you from creating your own supplies.
 

Satharra

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I would encourage folks to take a look at the letters sent to ECA and Johnson's Creek. The original letters are here: Electronic Cigarettes

Read them and keep in mind that the FDA is laying groundwork. They've put their cards out on the table and have every intention of regulating these as a drug delivery device.

Over the next week, I'm going to see if I can't write a strongly worded, cogent letter. I'll be happy to post it here. I would encourage folks to send it to their representatives and the FDA. A big grassroots effort by registered voters is going to help in this effort.

On the flip side, I really am hopeful that the FDA will take more interest in building some food grade requirements for liquid vendors. One of the things that bothers me most about vaping is that I am not really assured of what is in the liquid. Some checks and balances in place to ensure that all liquid contains what it says it contains is not difficult to enact. I know I wouldn't want to eat at a restaurant that told me it was serving grilled chicken and then be given a plate full of grilled fish. I lost a dog a few years back when certain brands of dog food were found to have melamine in them 2 months after the fact. I certainly don't want to lose a human to that sort of ingredient error.
 
Whatever, aint about me. They can ban it all right now, and I'll get by. Heck I got enough land to grow plenty of tobacco to extract nic from. I got the ability to make the devices, can't effect me much, but darn.......we need to fight for the ones who haven't found them yet. We need to fight for heaven forbid our kids or grand kids that may smoke! It's not time to stock, it's time to take a damn stand! I encourage everyone here today to do SOMETHING! Don't have to be anything in particular, can't do it wrong, just do SOMETHING, make an effort to not stock up for yourself, but to protect the future vapors who depend on us. By the time everyone spends stockpiling in fear, you could write a letter, you could sign a petition, you could make a phone call.

I'm sorry, maybe this post will be removed. But dang is this not PIF? Take the time to really pay it forward, forward as in the next generation of vapers. I'm not saying that anyone here doesn't, but take the fear and use it as motivation. Use it to possibly make a difference. Use it so maybe one day 30 years from now you can tell your grand kids, "you know, I remember when they tried to ban those things, and we all pulled together and took a stand and fought it". You know....maybe they'll be the ones thanking you for it???? [/soapbox] boB
 

Satharra

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Let me get grocery shopping and cleaning done for the day and I'll get started on a nice letter. I'm going to share it with you all and provide links so you can send it - either by snail or email - to your representatives and senators. I'll also encourage you to CC it to national news' agencies. (You get a faster response when the media gets involved.) Feel free to adapt it to your needs but try to keep your emotion out of it if possible. Passion is good but make the argument on facts. If you truly have concerns that the FDA is the pocket of Big Pharma and Big Tobacco then request an audit of all officials' personal income (to determine if they're receiving money on the sly) and documentation of any conflicts of interests. You, as a taxpayer and registered voter, have that right.

We have a ton of states represented here and can easily get out letters to most, if not all of them. If you don't want to change the letter, you don't have to. If you want to add to it or take away, you can do that too. I'm giving you permission to plagiarize the bejeezus out of me.
 

skydragon

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Let me get grocery shopping and cleaning done for the day and I'll get started on a nice letter. I'm going to share it with you all and provide links so you can send it - either by snail or email - to your representatives and senators. I'll also encourage you to CC it to national news' agencies. (You get a faster response when the media gets involved.) Feel free to adapt it to your needs but try to keep your emotion out of it if possible. Passion is good but make the argument on facts. If you truly have concerns that the FDA is the pocket of Big Pharma and Big Tobacco then request an audit of all officials' personal income (to determine if they're receiving money on the sly) and documentation of any conflicts of interests. You, as a taxpayer and registered voter, have that right.

We have a ton of states represented here and can easily get out letters to most, if not all of them. If you don't want to change the letter, you don't have to. If you want to add to it or take away, you can do that too. I'm giving you permission to plagiarize the bejeezus out of me.

That would be great Satharra. I still think we will end up having to march though. :(
 

scheherezade

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When are we going to start marching with big signs that say "We Will Not Comply!" Seems to work for others.

I was thinking of a march followed by a massive vape outside of the FDA building. Maybe the people walking by will realize they still breath even with the fog of vapor and some newspaper spouting the FDA's crap as a science report will pick up on that. (I can dream can't I)
 

skydragon

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I was thinking of a march followed by a massive vape outside of the FDA building. Maybe the people walking by will realize they still breath even with the fog of vapor and some newspaper spouting the FDA's crap as a science report will pick up on that. (I can dream can't I)

Honestly, I don't know why we are afraid to put up more of a stink. Actually the air would probably smell quite good. =)
I will send the letters and e-mails but that isn't what gets you anywhere nowadays. Unfortunately.
 

Satharra

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Honestly, I don't know why we are afraid to put up more of a stink. Actually the air would probably smell quite good. =)
I will send the letters and e-mails but that isn't what gets you anywhere nowadays. Unfortunately.

I dunno. I've had great luck with well-written letters and email but it's pretty much second nature to me at this point. The key piece is to follow up if the representative/senator doesn't reply to your letter/email and show that this is an important issue to you and that you, as a voting constituent, expect a well-crafted response.

While folks are suggesting pickets and protests, I sincerely wonder how many would actually show up? Would we be a mighty protest of 15? From my past experience with this sort of thing, folks are quick to post on a message board in outrage but slow or nonexistent in their actual response. It's easy to decry what the FDA is doing here, but are people actually going to do something about it or sit on their hands, collect their juice, and cry woe is me, the FDA is causing the sky to fall?

Of all the folks who posted here and elsewhere indicating they were concerned, angry, scared, etc., I'll bet that less than 20% actually do anything about it.
 

skydragon

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I dunno. I've had great luck with well-written letters and email but it's pretty much second nature to me at this point. The key piece is to follow up if the representative/senator doesn't reply to your letter/email and show that this is an important issue to you and that you, as a voting constituent, expect a well-crafted response.

While folks are suggesting pickets and protests, I sincerely wonder how many would actually show up? Would we be a mighty protest of 15? From my past experience with this sort of thing, folks are quick to post on a message board in outrage but slow or nonexistent in their actual response. It's easy to decry what the FDA is doing here, but are people actually going to do something about it or sit on their hands, collect their juice, and cry woe is me, the FDA is causing the sky to fall?

Of all the folks who posted here and elsewhere indicating they were concerned, angry, scared, etc., I'll bet that less than 20% actually do anything about it.

I know what you mean and agree 100% about how many would actually show up. I could just see four or five of us standing around with our signs. If we had one big sign, it would cover us all up. Just some feet under a sign moving down the road. LOL

All I know is we need to stop being so complacent about everything and I just don't think letter writing will do it. It would be wonderful if I am wrong and I will certainly do that but I guess we will see.
 

Xanax

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The FDA should be banned for causing nothing but harm to something that has indeed helped numerous people quit something so deadly. I'm the FDA lets hurt the ECig world but give free needles to junkies to kill themselves in a safe manner but lets take something away from everyone that is all around good for everyone.

Oh please..... -_-
 
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