Monster recipe for your perusal and advice (Symmetry Six clone)

[tazzle]

So, I had a sample bottle of Five Pawn's Symmetry 6, which I loved, and looking around there's not much info online about cloning or making something similar. However, today I did come across a recipe with 14 (!!) ingredients -- the only one I've found so far. I'm tempted to try it, but I abso-f-ing-lutely cannot buy more diy ingredients right now, and I'm missing some. Recipe following, then questions about a couple of my missing ingredients:

Symmetry clone

2% Apple Pie (FA)
0.5% Brown Sugar (TPA)
0.5% Butterscotch (FA)
1% Catalan Cream (FA)
0.5% Coconut (FA)
0.75% Cookie (Biscotto) (FA)
0.5% Crunchy Berry Cereal - TFA
2% Graham Cracker (Clear) (TPA)
0.5% Joy (FA)
1% Madagascar (Vanilla Classic) (FA)
1.5% Red Touch (Strawberry) (FA)
0.25% Rhubarb (INAWERA)
4% Strawberry Shisha (INAWERA)
1.25% Torrone (FA)

Flavor total: 16.25%

Some items I don't have, but I think I have suitable subs and they don't worry me. Two others are more confusing:

0.5% Crunchy Berry Cereal - TFA; don't have and never tried. No idea about a possible sub. Could I just add a bit of forest fruits and maybe a touch of sugar cookie or something?

0.5% Joy (FA); this is a mysterious ingredient that I have no experience with. There's probably not a substitution, from the stuff I'm reading about it (yeasty, beer foam, funnel cake, fried dough).

What are your thoughts about any of: Symmetry Six; this recipe; and/or my two problem ingredients?

I do understand that using anything different from the original means it won't be the same as the original.

(btw, I'm not sharing the name of the person who created the recipe because it was a private recipe on ELR, and the originator shared it with someone else looking for a Symmetry Six clone, so I don't know that they want their name attached. Here's a link to the comment where I found it, which does include the maker's ELR site name.)

 

[Eskie]

Well, that is one intricate recipe. Even though it's been over a year I've been vaping, I don't think my taste buds could ever pull out all the subtle notes of that. If you think about the Symmetry original that you vaped, did you get a sense for all those sub notes in the juice?

 

[tazzle]

it's been a while, but sort of, yes. The Apple Pie was a bit surprising, but then made a lot of sense. I wouldn't have thought of butterscotch, but again, sort of makes sense. The coconut was not apparent, but low percentages of coconut seem to just tend to add a flavor note rather than an actual coconut with a big "C" flavor. The graham cracker, brown sugar, creams, strawberry, and rhubarb were not surprising at all, and would definitely be the beginning of anything I would try. The biscotto isn't surprising as I see it modifying the graham cracker to be a little less Grahamy.

The flavor did seem like an intricate thing, for sure.

 

[Eskie]

Then go for it. It'll really be like chemistry lab measuring all that out.

 

[Tamer El-Meehy]

I have a golden rule in these situations: if the ingredient is 0.5% or less and I don't have it, I'd just drop it or substitute for it. Unless of course the recipe identifies it as crucial, or I'm lacking most of the ingredients. I found this rule easy to follow in the cases of clones of juices whose originals I haven't tasted.

Give it a try without the Joy and try to substitute for the crunchy berry and see how things turn out. Most likely it will only be slightly different, but still a good vape [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jambi]

Amazingly (or worryingly, since it implies I've got way too much flavoring on my hands), I have all the ingredients to make this. Maybe...this...Sun...lord...have...mercy...14...ingredients...

All I can say is careful with that INW Rhubarb!

 

[tazzle]

GO JAMBI GO!!

 

[retired1]

Well, that is one intricate recipe. Even though it's been over a year I've been vaping, I don't think my taste buds could ever pull out all the subtle notes of that. If you think about the Symmetry original that you vaped, did you get a sense for all those sub notes in the juice?

It's not so much about being able to detect the subnotes as it is some of the flavors melding to create a completely unique flavor. It's one of the reasons why I've been totally unable to recreate Unicorn Blood. There are additional flavors being used in the original that I have no clue on, and as a result, all my attempts at recreating it are a flat bust.

 

[tazzle]

Amazingly (or worryingly, since it implies I've got way too much flavoring on my hands), I have all the ingredients to make this. Maybe...this...Sun...lord...have...mercy...14...ingredients...

All I can say is careful with that INW Rhubarb!

I will say this for the original juice: it's an unusual flavor and actually fairly subtle, so keep that in mind. When I first tried it, I was like, "whaaaat? This is ... different." And then I kept vaping it until my sad little sample bottle was empty. I like it *because* it's so different, and not like the standard super-sweet, super-flavored juices. You can definitely taste the rhubarb (and I'm a rhubarb fan), but it's not at all what I would call a full-on Big Rhubarb vape. Flavor-wise generally, it doesn't stand up and slap you around. It's more of a ninja. To me, it is as complex on the tongue as this recipe (or at least its number of ingredients) would imply, but it's not a flavor that makes you go "WOW!" right away. It sneaks up on you. With total and diabolical confidence in its sneaky ninja skillz.

It is definitely one that you (well, "I," anyway) can vape for hours.

 

[Firestorm]

I think that Five Pawns recently reformulated some of their eliquids, specifically Symmetry Six. I recently ordered a bottle and it tastes significantly different from the dozens of other bottles I've previously purchased since it was released. I have tried to make a Symmetry Six clone many times in the past, but it never tasted good. The new Symmetry Six tastes just as horrible as my prior DIY attempts, and that's not a good thing. I would try the recipe provided in the OP, but there are a lot of flavors that I don't have.

 

[tazzle]

oh man, thanks for that info, because I've been tempted to order it, even if only to be able to compare against possible diy recipes. That's sad news.

 

[dobroeutro]

When I see a recipe with more than seven ingredients, I usually think, "hmmm, that looks interesting." and move along... lol.

 

[man00ver]

0.5% Crunchy Berry Cereal - TFA; don't have and never tried. No idea about a possible sub. Could I just add a bit of forest fruits and maybe a touch of sugar cookie or something?

0.5% Joy (FA); this is a mysterious ingredient that I have no experience with. There's probably not a substitution, from the stuff I'm reading about it (yeasty, beer foam, funnel cake, fried dough).

I'd bump Cookie to 1% and add a half-point of Forest Fruit, then sub a quarter-point of Acetyl Pyrazine for the Joy (and maybe a drop or two of EM). At that percentage, the Joy only provides a minor sweet bready note, so the extra Cookie + AP would probably serve.

Now I need to buy Rhubarb....

 

[ParDeus]

What perfect timing... I've been working on a clone of this for months now, and have tried the recipe above, without much satisfaction, unfortunately.

I have about 8 different recipes steeping, and so far I believe I've got the crust aspect nailed. Filling wise, INW Rhubarb will NOT work, it just doesn't mix well with all the other ingredients. I'll remember to pop back in here come middle of next week and let you know how it goes.

 

[tazzle]

Thanks so much, man00ver! And wow, ParDeus, that's amazing! I've found so little discussion of this. I'm VERY interested in what you find!

 

[man00ver]

Filling wise, INW Rhubarb will NOT work, it just doesn't mix well with all the other ingredients.

Can you say more about this INW Rhubarb opinion, please? Too strong? What flavorings does it seem to conflict with (not the strawberries, surely....)?

It's in my cart but I haven't pressed GO yet.

 

[ParDeus]

Can you say more about this INW Rhubarb opinion, please? Too strong? What flavorings does it seem to conflict with (not the strawberries, surely....)?

It's in my cart but I haven't pressed GO yet.

It is just too strong and green, even at 0.1%. I've got some recipes steeping with RF Sugared Plum, RF Strawberry Rhubarb, SolubArome Red Fruit Crumble, RF Oatmeal Cookie, OOO Pie Crust, OOO Rhubarb, among many others.

The RF Oatmeal cookie and the OOO Pie Crust seem to be going in the right direction, as does DIYFS Holy Vanilla @3%. Symmetry Six is very crust/crumble forward, but it's an Oatmeal flavored one. The fruit aspect seems dependent on getting the crust right, as the fruit & cream act as a unit, but they have very good seperation from the crust, as opposed to being a fruit/crust/cream clusterf*ck like many similar recipes end up.

That's where 5P seems to be very educated, not just in flavors, but in the way people perceive flavors, and interpret combinations thereof.

 

[man00ver]

Filling wise, INW Rhubarb will NOT work, it just doesn't mix well with all the other ingredients.

It is just too strong and green, even at 0.1%.

Thanks for elaborating. INW Rhubarb is on the way to me now, so I'll see how it works. If it's too strong, it may still be workable diluted 1:10 in PG. Then again, I like rhubarb, especially in strawberry pie form. I have everything else I need for this "monster" (well, if I sub INW Vanilla Bourbon and INW Strawberry for the Madagascar and Red Touch), so I'll give it a spin sometime next week. Clearly it will need a long steep, but that's not a problem for me with so much mixing going on....

 

[ParDeus]

RF Strawberry Rhubarb is actually much closer, the strawberry needs reinforced a bit though. Just when I take one step forward with this clone, I end up 3 steps back.

 

[ParDeus]

If anyone is still following along, here is my latest-
FA Apple Pie - 2%
RF Oatmeal Cookie SC - 2.5%
TPA Cheesecake (Graham Crust) - 1.5%
JF Strawberry Sweet - 3.5%
DIYFS Holy Vanilla - 1.5%
RF Rhubarb - 1.5%
FA Vienna Cream -2.5%