My problems with TECC

[Starlight]

.We have to accept that although we do have Consumer Rights in the form of the Sale of Goods Act, stating that an item has to be fit for purpose. It would be debatable as to the 'purpose' of e-cigs in their current form.

The Sale of Goods Act states that a product must also be "as described" and "of satisfactory quality", as well as "fit for purpose".

So if an item is DOA or in any other way faulty on receipt, it won't be any of the above. As such, one legally has the right to "reject" it and request a full refund. The period in which one can do this is normally not very long and will vary from supplier to supplier, some only give 7 days in which to claim a refund for faulty item - not very long in my book, but there we go. This isn't the same as a guarantee which won't necessarily offer a refund but a replacement (or repair) only.

A guarantee implies that the product should last the duration of the guarantee. That being the case, then doesn't the issue become more one of being "not as described" rather than one of not being "fit for purpose"? In which case shouldn't suppliers not make claims that the items last longer than their guarantee?

 

[Kate]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-uk-regulation-sales-marketing-promotion.html


Regarding the condition of using branded eliquid. Ludo has always encouraged people to use Janty eliquid with their products but stopped short of making it a condition of the guarantee. If that is the case now it represents a change of policy.

 

[CatVTTV]

Starlight I totally agree with you.. they shouldnt make false claims, no one should. How often do we hear newbies say, 'they claimed the cartridges were the equivalent of 20 cigarettes'.

But how many of the suppliers claim a battery will last a certain time or an atomiser will, not that many..

Dont get me wrong, I have had issues with suppliers, some still not resolved, but in general most will be truthful and say, an atomiser can go in 20 mins or less, and wrongly I believe, I have appreciated the honesty and then not complained when something goes wrong at a point when 'of unsatisfactory quality' would indeed give me a case to reject the item.

My gripe has always been that in the majority of cases I have to pay to return the item, and as you want to be sure the item reaches them, pay for special delivery, then have to wait whilest its checked and if deemed faulty or whether you are just not smart enough to know how to use it properly, a new one sent out 2nd class post, all of which can take weeks.

And we have all witnessed what can happen on the forums should a customer dare to complain on the boards, making others afraid to voice their own particular problems.

Again I would ask, would this happen if you had a complaint re any other item, ranging from a pack of frozen peas to a televison set? no, it wouldnt, we would all be shocked should a staff member or even the Chief Executive speak to us in the manner suppliers have spoken to customers via forums.

But this is the unregulated world of e-cigs, that has its good points and its bad ones..

Yes we still have rights but where would it get us?

No supplies...

 

[Starlight]

I agree with you too, Christena, and that includes about daring to complain on the forums...

Kate's link above refers (I think, but please correct me if I'm wrong) to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 which replaced the Trade Descriptions Act. This would be in addition to the Sale of Goods Act.

Honest suppliers don't give any time scales for the life-span of hardware and will state things such as E-Cigs.co.uk do: "The atomisers, which are manufactured to the highest standards are functional devices that will degrade over time and eventually fail. The life of the atomiser largely depends on personal usage and this fact is reflected in our pricing." They don't even mention the durability or life-span of a battery.

I've had issues with a supplier who refused to give a refund for an item - which was not only faulty but caused me a mild injury - when I reported it within 24 hrs, when their own TOS said they give refunds for faulty items if reported within 7 days. They then said they don't give refunds for used items. I, as politely as I could, argued this and pointed out that one can't know if a product is faulty until one uses it and I had to twice quote the Sale of Goods Act. I eventually got my refund, even if not the return postage that they promised me. I've had other suppliers who have more than willingly replaced items that became faulty after the 28 day guarantee limit (agreed, it's highly unusual and may have been a one-off case!). Like you, I too have appreciated their honesty and willingness and then not complained when another item has been a bit less than perfect.

As you rightly say, most suppliers that we know of from the forum here don't make misleading claims and aren't guilty of misrepresentation. I'm only referring to UK suppliers as I've no experience of any from elsewhere except for Janty in Holland. But there are a couple who claim, albeit by implication in using such words as "typically" or "usually" etc, that batteries or atomisers last 2 or 3 months, eg: "Atomiser's expected life-span is around 60 days and batteries should last in the region of 3-5 months." That may well be but we all know how unreliable they are and can last a lot less, in which case such claims should not be made as it's misleading to consumers (buyers) to do so. To make such claims is technically (I believe) against the law?

But those suppliers who do make claims of life-span, eg: that carts last 20 cigs or batteries can last two months or whatever - and then refuse to even replace them because they give a guarantee shorter than the "expected lifespan" (which seems to me to be a sort of contradiction in itself) - should be aware of what the Unfair Trading Regulations says (taken from the above link):

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 have replaced most of the Trade Descriptions Act since 26 May 2008. These new regulations make it an offence to mislead consumers about goods and services, including immoveable property, rights and obligations.

If you don't comply, you risk the reputation of your business. You could have your goods seized and, in the case of alcohol, lose your licence to trade. You may also be ordered to pay a hefty fine and could even face imprisonment.

(The bold emphasis is not mine but that of the site)

All it takes for these suppliers is to simply not make such claims, same as the decent suppliers don't. This also, obviously, applies to any claims not only about parts but about health and NRT etc (another topic altogether which has already been hashed to death but which could indeed result in "no supplies..."!)

I'm one to all too easily turn a blind eye to and forgive those who are willing, genuine and honest but I'm also a real stickler and fighter when it comes to justice. I do admit that I was one of those who didn't complain on the forums about my complaint, although I came close to it at one point, for fear of reprisals.

And, no, no supplier should act or respond to complaints in the forums in the way that some have. I don't think petty minor moans, that at the best of times could happen to anybody, should be aired on the forums, let alone screaming and shouting about them which is provocative in itself, but I do think being made aware of problems as well as of compliments helps give us feedback on suppliers. When it comes to those suppliers with a less than polite manner, my issue with them isn't their faulty hardware, it's their reaction to a complaint and how they handle and treat their customers which they then lose as a result. I'd take a guess that they get a good part of their business from us ECF members too, otherwise why be a "sponsoring supplier"? They also need to remember that they're not the only suppliers out there and they don't have the monopoly.

 

[CatVTTV]

I have read through your response very carefully, and its a breath of fresh air, if only there were more like you posting then more customers would get a fair deal.

All to often all we read are the reactions from the so called 'fanboys and girls' which I would never have believed had I not seen them for myself. These people also intimidate those with genuine complaints or even concerns, hence a post such as this would never be added to anywhere else on this forum.

Im so glad that we have the UK forum and that it gives us a chance to discuss matters in a civilised way without any offensive or rude remarks.

When I first started to use an e-cig, I was lucky as I viewed the video from spikey which made me aware of the problems of e-cigs, and for that I am truly grateful to her, hence my membership to this site.

I made mistakes, I purchased from a reputable supplier according to this site, and despite spending a huge amount of money was treated very badly indeed, but being a bit old fashioned in my beliefs, I tried to sort it out myself, unsuccessfully, may I add, and even now dont feel its right to 'air my dirty washing in public'. However, saying that, I do agree with you, that unless concerns are aired on the forum, how can others know that there is potential problem with a supplier.

I have now moved on from that situation, which I may add, caused me a lot of personal stress, and I have now found suppliers who have been totally brilliant, and I wont hesitate to say Toby at iVapour is one of them.

It would be lovely if we could simply guide people who are new to the whole e-cig experience in a polite and helpful manner, but at the same time have the confidence in the suppliers who have forums here, that they in turn will deal with that person in a manner which would not reflect back on us and this forum.

Kate - I didnt mean to ignore your post, I simply am not qualified to respond to it. If this is Janty US that have changed policy and I take it that would be the case, I dont know enough about TS and the law on Consumer Rights to comment further.

I do know though that Toby has always been more than fair in his dealing with me, if something hasnt been right...
And do I feel I can recommend him to others? darn right I do....

Right rant over...
Brilliant discussion may I add....lol

 

[Kate]

It's ok Christena, I wasn't expecting a response, I was just adding some information for reference to the discussion.

I'm past caring much about guarantee terms at the moment to be honest. I was more active when I first joined up but I'm a bit tired now and can't be bothered with a repeat performance.

I've had great experience with e-cigs.co.uk and smokejuice.co.uk myself and do not hesitate to recommend them.

 

[CatVTTV]

Kate I do understand, and I can see why you could be a bit fed up of it all. I think we in the UK are lucky in that we do have several suppliers who are good, and I agree, e-cigs.co.uk are brilliant, and their juices are darn good too...

Smokejuice I have yet to try, but I will thats for sure.

Dont let the buggers ( can I say that?) get you down !

 

[Kate]

... Dont let the buggers ( can I say that?) get you down !

Aye, you can say that

Thanks

 

[ApOsTle51]

I've had great experience with e-cigs.co.uk and smokejuice.co.uk myself and do not hesitate to recommend them.

+1 on those two also , Only ones i use really except the occasional bottle of French pipe from TW and never had any real gripes from any of them.

a couple of JCSJ issues and atomizer fails from e-cigs where sorted promptly and proffesionally and will always look at Simon as a dependable and trustworthy supplier with a great price and superb service.

Toby seems to be a good guy and I will no doubt be adding iVapour to my elite suppliers list shorlty

just to add for the trade cost of an atomizer , I shouldn't imagine a supplier arguing over the fact of which e-liquid you used. Probably costs more to find that out than to send another atty.

 

[paulhampson]

I disagree with the support and return policy from TECC as I laid out in this thread:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/14807-tecc-customer-support-bad.html
There products are not reliable (not necessarily their fault) but the way they deal with these problems is to make it seem that they are not responsible for your inconvenience , which they are and that is why they get to charge such high prices.

They have luckily got the right product for the time and like intellicig have got a huge amount of orders. But unlike other retailers such as intellicig (who is very good about returns and seems to acknowledge it as an occupational hazard) people will go elsewhere as soon as the product is readily available.

 

[Grandma Cas]

Just though I'd let the mods know I had a PM from bauway this morning, damn spammers. I've put them on my ignore list

 

[ApOsTle51]

Just though I'd let the mods know I had a PM from bauway this morning, damn spammers. I've put them on my ignore list

they have since been banned from the Forum Cas. they where spamming others PM boxes and general forum spam too.

 

[scyllabub]

I'm past caring much about guarantee terms at the moment to be honest. I was more active when I first joined up but I'm a bit tired now and can't be bothered with a repeat performance.

I almost know how you feel because I've had to "support" e-ciggers and enquirers in an unrelated forum where they've got a huge e-cig thread - and the members there refuse to join a specialist forum when I repeatedly suggest it, I'm getting worn out.

I thought I'd take advantage of your experience, Kate, by looking up your post history... then, GULP! Maybe not

I have gone easy on a couple of sellers who thought they'd make a good living out of e-cigs, they offered guarantees and then realised what they'd let themselves in for 8-o I didn't return the instantly failing replacements. I've had two of the dears sending me replacements without asking me to return the faulty ones, I felt so sorry for them I didn't buy from them again.

I do think that retailers need a hefty profit margin in order to survive - particularly if they specialise in the 901 Mini.

scylla

scylla

 

[Kate]

Yes, I've got a lot of posts, most of them not very useful. If there's anything specific you want help with Scylla let me know and I'll try to help. I'm not very much up to date now though, I don't read much current stuff about devices or eliquid, mostly I spend time on social off topic stuff.

 

[scyllabub]

Thank you, Kate Sounds like you're happily settled with your PV - great!

scylla

 

[Yick]

I have just read threw this Post and find it very informative on uk suppliers.
I also started of my e cig experience threw Tecc & Tw
as Cat will confirm lol.
Anyway enough said on that matter haha.
I can only speak highly of e-cigs.co.uk they have been great with me.
and are now one of my bookmarked suppliers.
I am a recent Screwdriver convert, and after Troggs advice, i treat atomizers as a throw away product after a couple of weeks, or when they start playing up. Dont get me wrong i have gone threw the old Pepsi and Sterident phase of recovery lol, but what the hell you can get these for less than a £5, and save yourself a lot of frustration.

 

[neiloboe]

you can get these for less than a £5

Where?????

 

[CatVTTV]

Yes Yick I can confirm that we started at TW & TECC, but we have moved on, and I am delighted to say, my experiences since doing so have been fantastic. There are some superb suppliers out there.

e-cigs.co.uk, as you say, brilliant, and super quick
iVapour.co.uk, goes that extra mile for his customers

Although I havent had the pleasure of buying yet, Smokejuice is another one who gets superb reviews.

And how can we forget dear old trog at ecigscredriver.com

But to speak of atomisers, I became lazy quite early on, and although I give them a quick lick and a promise with a Q tip (cotton bud) I seldom bath them, or alternate them.

And I have been very lucky, in almost 3 months I have only had one problem atomiser, all the others are still working fine.

 

[ApOsTle51]

Where?????

DSE901-Blue Atomiser - e-Cigs Mini e-Cig DSE901 - Eastmall International Co.,Ltd

or

Black atomizer for RN4075 mini e-cigarette - Spare parts - Heaven-gifts.com Ruyandirect.com Best E-smoking Shop

ordering from well established Chinese suppliers may take longer , but the savings are great if your buying several items.

ApO.

 

[Kitabz]

Yup, of all the suppliers e-cigs.co.uk has consistently been the best considering speed, price and service.

In terms of product reliability intellicig gets my vote however, EVOs appear to be practically indestructible as far as I can see.

I'm with Christina on the 901 atomisers, just chuck them after a while. When considering how much cigarettes cost (over £6 a pack now in my corner shop - yikes), even two weeks life out of one is a relative bargain. I think I'm down three in over four months, that works out at less than 20p a day based on UK atomiser prices.

As ApOsTle51 has said, heaven-gifts are excellent - delivery in about a week from Shangai and US$6 a piece for atomisers.