My protank experience improved with 510 extension

[Necrosis]

Just to give context, I've been making alot of diff coils to experiment with my protanks with mixed results, the two biggest issues being gurgling and juice leaking down to the battery from inside the threads somewhere.

Rewind a couple days, I was ordering flavor concentrates from madvapes and peeked into their accessories and spotted two different 510 extenders for like two bucks. Two choices were sealed & unsealed adapters, I grabbed a sealed extender just so I could protect my eVic's threads, and being sealed, any leaking would be self contained within the sealed adapter and not the battery.

Just came in today, screwed it in, and noticed my draws on the protank required alot more force than before, similar perhaps to a cigarette. I know people complain about airy draws so that could be a simple enough potential remedy. I also noticed that I havent had any gurgling that had been driving me nuts, perhaps due to it forcing you to draw slower, or maybe the sealing reduces open exposure to the inside of the tank from the bottom, I dont know. It could even be a coincidence, too soon to tell for sure yet.

So yea, slower non-airy draw, self contained leaking away from the battery, and possibly a remedy for gurgling. I'm damn happy and wanted to share. Note, this is a 510 SEALED extender, I suspect an unsealed would be completely different.

 

[Alter]

I've been using a 510 adapter and the ring whenever I put my protank on a mod. It tightens up the draw quite a bit in my case.
You said it gurgles and juice leaks..did you remove or not put back the flavor wick? in so they are there to plug up the gap between the bottom of the stem cap and the top of the wicking (this applies mostly to stock heads that are super cheap on the wicking material) If you rebuilding the heads yourself, I put a piece if 1mm silica as my flavor wick(or cut off the wicks from a old top wick clearo). I rebuild mine with 2mm hollow ekowool and the 1mm flavor wick and have not had any gurgle, leak or dry hit and I can go right down to the last drops of juice without loosing performance. The airy draw also forces unburn't juice behind the coil onto the battery top, tightening up the draw will also eliminate that problem.
The protanks and most bottom coil tanks produce a slight vaccuum to help draw the juice to the wick so setting them on their side breaks that vaccuum and then juice will leak out the bottom once they are stood up. I have mine standing all the time either in a cup or stuffed in the couch cushion while I'm watching TV.

 

[Necrosis]

Tried various diff things from single 3mm wick, up to two flavor wicks, with seemingly random results. Some of the worst results were with the flavor wicks, they would absorb so much juice that it would splash up the tube into my mouth. The best results, by the next day had a habit of not continuing good results. Currently using a coil with a doubled 3mm wick trimmed as short as possible threaded through a coil wrapped off a screw (30g kanthal, 5 wraps, 1.9ohm vaping @ 8w), and it's going strong. I wear my eVic around my neck with a lanyard so it's pretty much always vertical, though I had yet to notice any noticeable performance change by having it sideways or upside down even, even vaping from said angles!.

Currently this is working great with the 510 extender, no reason to... oh, I probably just jinxed it

 

[Necrosis]

Ok I was wrong, the gurlging is still there in the end. It's very random when or if it'll hit, none of my data is showing any signs of a pattern. All I know is it's sputtering up from the coils, the moment it starts you're screwed.

 

[Rickb119]

Have you thought about using cotton? I use Peaches and Crème (Wal-Mart) white cotton yarn and have had very good results with my Evod/Protank2 coils. There are 4 strands in it. I use all 4 in the coil and just 2 for the flavor wicks. I did have problems with the PT2's gurgling but not due to the coils. (I'll start a thread about it once I'm sure of my "fix".)
Also, Thanks for the tip about the extender. I had one, put it on and the draw is much better!

 

[bikerdave]

I'll second the opinion that your bottom-feed clearomizers should remain upright as much as possible. I've had nothing but problems when I let my T3S or Protank get horizontal for any period of time. Keep 'em straight up if you can.

 

[Necrosis]

Well, I seem to have found a fix for my gurgling that's been working every time so far. Fix, meaning if I get gurgling, I can clear it out and continue vaping and it tends to last all the way to the end.

When I get gurgling, I rip a thin strip, maybe an inch wide, of tissue and roll it into a strand. Work that into the opening of the tip all the way as far as it goes. Then turn the device upside-down and burn for a full 10 seconds. Once, maybe a second time for good measure, pull out the paper (which will have absorbed some juice at the tip) and.... no gurgling. And this has worked regardless of how much is in the tank, so I can vape all the way to empty (aka few drops left in the tank thats almost as thick as honey).

I've thought about cotton but haven't felt like messing with it for the time being. Currently using two heads made the same way, folded 3mm wick with 4 wraps of 30g kanthal using a paper clip, seems if the wick loses contact with the upper parts of the coil due to gravity or whatnot, it'll add a burnt taste. Just today I decided to pop one open, was fairly gunky, so ran it under hot water with the coil exposed, then dry burned with pulsing until I got everything to glow red, ran it again under hot water, and this time I added two strands of wick ontop (aka them "flavor wicks"), because it seemed like the wick was losing contact with the top part of the coil and so far it's working even better than before, much thicker vapor. It hasn't gurgled on me yet but I'm sure my upside-down burn would be able to deal with it.

Take that for whatever it's worth. I find that different heads (got 6 of them to play with) may whistle when I'm inhaling and require a LITTLE loosening on the 510 thread to find the sweet spot, still giving good resistance on the draw.

Edit: Just wanted to add, I really have not noticed any change if I put the tank on it's side. Even had a tank laying sideways in the car during a party to switch out midway through the night and worked just fine. Not sure what to make of that, one thing's for sure, if you can find what works for you stick with it!

 

[ScottP]

I have never had any gurgling with my EVOD but my wife did. I think we figured out that she was sucking too hard on it. It was as if she was sucking more juice into the wick that it could convert to vapor so it became gurgly and leaky. I was able to correct this by removing the original flavor wick and replacing it with a piece of the Peaches & Creme yarn mentioned by Rickb. This is still using the factory coil and coiled wick, I only replaced the flavor wick. Now she vapes happily how she wants with no more gurgling.

 

[Necrosis]

Was experimenting with various flavor wicks last night, silica and cotton, and in the end am finding just a plain wick wrapped in a coil tastes best, and w/ the 510 extender provides a comfortable resistance on the draw. One thing's for sure, this upside-down burn works for me, really well. Whether I'm refilling my tank or get the gurgles, an upside-down burn for 5 seconds and then flipping it back upright and leaving it alone for a few minutes before using always seems to do the trick. Not sure if the upside-down burn is just clearing out a wick that got over-saturated or if the heat does something with the pressure in the tank, but it just works. And even if I have juice levels below the bottom rim of the Pyrex glass, it just works. Got done enjoying a honey dew juice earlier, when I emptied the tank into the sink, only two drops came out. I'm happy

 

[Necrosis]

Developed two new issues today. First, while drawing, sometimes it'll go into a mode where it actually sucks back against me. This seems related to the sealed extender and the reduced air flow. It goes away if I loosen the 510 thread, or in some cases, if I increased the wattage... not sure what the hell is going on there, not even taking it apart and cleaning everything fixes it, and then hours later the problem just goes away. The other issue is this tank/head that will absolutely not stop gurgling no matter what I do, including taking it apart.

I'm about ready to chuck these stupid things out the window.

 

[Necrosis]

And now they all work perfectly. One tank was left as it was from earlier in the day even when it was gurgling. I don't get it! When they work, they work great. Everything's been kept in the same room, there's no real temp fluctuations or humidity change, or I'd have suspected there must be an atmospheric factor at work. Would be fine if my coils/wicks were to blame, then I could just blame myself and work on my skills, but nothing actually works better than my current design for me, so I dunno.

 

[Necrosis]

Been making micro-coils over the last ~2 days with cotton wick, my best vape yet at 30g wrapped 12/11 over a 16g needle (going for 14 wraps on the next coil) threaded loosely from a cotton ball. Doesn't really solve the leaking issue but I did notice something of a problem area. Inside the bottom of the chamber with the coil, which is the rubber thingy that pins one end of the coil, can collect juice along the outer circumference. Seems if this happens, gurgling and spitting is guaranteed along with leaking since there's a gaping air hole leading straight down to the battery. Soon as that happens, juice will go into the battery and go up between the head's threading and the center pin. No amount of cleaning will stop the gurgling unless that excess juice on the rubber stopper in the chamber is removed, at which point it will perform flawlessly no matter what the tank level is.

It seems there is some kind of water seal that forms at the point where the wick crosses into the coil chamber. As the weight of the juice changes, the pressure against that seal changes and likely disrupts an equilibrium that allows some fluid to drip into the inner chamber that leads to all the gurgling etc, maybe the juice spitting around in there during a draw even leads pulling more juice off the wick and into the chamber since the problem only escalates.

My current solution is to unscrew the head, unscrew the center part from the base, wipe that whole bottom section normally hidden under the base as well as the inner base itself, maybe blow out some juice from the center piece. At this point, everything is clear except it has juice in the chamber still, so I pop that upper tube to expose the coil, and with a very thin twisted up tissue, slide one end in so it touches the rubber and starts absorbing the collected juice, tipping to help get most of the juice to one side, but I repeat on the other side as well since I'm already doing it. Soon as that juice is removed off the bottom of the chamber... all is well. No gurgling, and the plumes of vapor returns, and it doesn't seem to matter how much is in the tank at this point either.

This could be why my original upside-down burning was having results, it likely was giving the juice a chance to get sucked into the two sides where the wicks enter and the heat may have helped too. I would be testing this to a repeatable science, except I now use cotton so that would be a problem. I'd like to find a simple way to get that excess juice out without so much disassembly and the need for tissue, since if I'm out and about it may not be practical. Maybe tilting the device up diagonally for one puff might help to get the juice in there to come down into contact with the wick and get absorbed during the vape, assuming one of the ends where the wick crosses into the chamber is facing down. My ultimate concern is that once the flooding has started, it's already too late and would require a disassembly to wipe down the lower parts, so if some ritual is possible to do "every now and then" throughout your vaping would be good.

Apologies for the long winded paragraphs & schizo like behavior, this is a very love-hate relationship with my protanks. Got an aga-t2 on the way to play with as well.

 

[Necrosis]

Using an old coil as a dripper. I thought I'd snap a few photos with my phone.

The first shot is what it looks like when it gets flooded. With that much fluid, it still doesn't leak down the center hole by itself even with the unit upright. If I put the chimney back on and tried to vape, it would gurgle, spit, and it will then send a lot of juice down the hole that goes into the battery and back up towards the air holes between the 510 threads and the center piece.

Second shot is just burning it without the chimney, I only burned until I started seeing dry spots forming in the cotton and stopped. Wanted to see if it was possible to just have the wick re-absorb the juice without physical intervention, but even held upside-down, the amount you see is still pooled. By the time I snapped the photo, the cotton managed to get saturated, but I was never able to get it to soak that juice back in, even upside-down.

Third shot is the only way I can clear that damn flood, it's just a small strip of paper towel twisted thin, and slid down so it touches the bottom of that well. It absorbed the juice and eventually it was dry. It also absorbs juice off the coil and wick, which is actually good because putting the chimney back on will cause compression on parts of the wick where it pinches, and just like squeezing a sponge, more likely than not it would drain more juice down into the well all over again before you even get to reuse it. If everything is sufficiently dry, can just pop the chimney back on and continue using it again good as new.

It seems like at some point, the wick that's inside the chamber gets oversaturated. Only thing I've had help is minimizing contact with anything touching the wick, namely the rubber grommet. If that grommet is touched, it'll push anywhere on the wick and almost guarantee to send more juice inside. Been trying many many different configurations with the wick (the coil is pre-installed and I can freely slide in new cotton, so that variable is constant). Only two things can conclude is that 1) more wick inside the well increases the problem, given this is cotton it's even more exaggerated at how fast and how much juice gets sucked in, if I put a second piece of cotton ontop I'll have gurgling on my very first draw. 2) It seems the flooding is unavoidable, switching between different juices may speed this process up. I also suspect that the best case scenario, you'll still slowly build up condensation inside the well and eventually get enough juice to gurgle.

Resting some tissue on the wick to dry up the wick and then (with the head screwed on my battery), flicking the device several times (centripetal force?) as if you're trying to flick out the extra juice, was sufficient to get it absorbed into the wick and dry up the well without having to stick anything absorbent down there. Next time I have a flood on my normal vaping head, I'll see if it's as simple as turning the unit upsidedown, unscrewing the base from the tank (keeping it screwed in the battery), and then wrapping it good with tissue to suck out juice from the wick, and doing that flick a few times. If that works, assuming the juice didnt already work down to the battery (which it doesnt seem to if you stop as soon as you get a gurgling draw), it should be possible to just screw the bank back on and resume vaping.

Just trying to find a realistic solution that would work while out & about. Even if not near a public bathroom to get some tissue, it would still be possible to just use my shirt or something in a pinch to suck the wick dry, just to give an idea of what's running through my head.

Edit: Just wanted to add, unscrewing the tank, threading a piece of tissue down the mouth piece as far as it goes, followed by a few really good flicks forcing everything upwards restored full vapor production. Perhaps drying the wick or even opening the tank is unnecessary. Time will tell.

 

[Train2]

that fix is proof that it's juice leaking into your air tube - which implies the trouble is where the coil is screwed in, or where the tube connects - and NOT really a flavor wick problem.
I get that gurgle occasionally - not much but occasionally.
I bought a bag of like 100 pipecleaners, cut them in quarters, and now have 400 ProTank length bits of pipecleaner.
I MOSTLY use them to swipe through the air tube when I refill - but I also shove em down to grab that occasionally airtube gurgle juice if it happens mid-tank...

Well, I seem to have found a fix for my gurgling that's been working every time so far. Fix, meaning if I get gurgling, I can clear it out and continue vaping and it tends to last all the way to the end.

When I get gurgling, I rip a thin strip, maybe an inch wide, of tissue and roll it into a strand. Work that into the opening of the tip all the way as far as it goes. Then turn the device upside-down and burn for a full 10 seconds. Once, maybe a second time for good measure, pull out the paper (which will have absorbed some juice at the tip) and.... no gurgling. And this has worked regardless of how much is in the tank, so I can vape all the way to empty (aka few drops left in the tank thats almost as thick as honey).

I've thought about cotton but haven't felt like messing with it for the time being. Currently using two heads made the same way, folded 3mm wick with 4 wraps of 30g kanthal using a paper clip, seems if the wick loses contact with the upper parts of the coil due to gravity or whatnot, it'll add a burnt taste. Just today I decided to pop one open, was fairly gunky, so ran it under hot water with the coil exposed, then dry burned with pulsing until I got everything to glow red, ran it again under hot water, and this time I added two strands of wick ontop (aka them "flavor wicks"), because it seemed like the wick was losing contact with the top part of the coil and so far it's working even better than before, much thicker vapor. It hasn't gurgled on me yet but I'm sure my upside-down burn would be able to deal with it.

Take that for whatever it's worth. I find that different heads (got 6 of them to play with) may whistle when I'm inhaling and require a LITTLE loosening on the 510 thread to find the sweet spot, still giving good resistance on the draw.

Edit: Just wanted to add, I really have not noticed any change if I put the tank on it's side. Even had a tank laying sideways in the car during a party to switch out midway through the night and worked just fine. Not sure what to make of that, one thing's for sure, if you can find what works for you stick with it!

 

[Necrosis]

Hadn't thought of pipe cleaners, that would definitely be convenient to work with in general.

There's two points in the device where I could get gurgling from. The chimney above the coil, and the center hole underneath the coil. The upper one is easy to deal with, and in many cases fixes itself in a couple drags (I figure that means enough force used gets enough of the fluid in the chimney to splash out and over the edge over the grommet, or onto the tank's airway). Easy to see too, since the amount it appears to take to gurgle will also form a seal in the tube completely obstructing it.

The gurgling from the lower center hole, though, is a much more powerful and consistent gurgle, and from my intentional flooding tests, appears to be the point that triggers the chain reaction. What may be happening, is that once enough juice is in that hole to form a seal, the pressure from inhaling creates a vacuum in the chamber and sucking in juice through the wick from the higher pressure in the tank (osmosis?). This also sends plenty of juice up the tube, especially if the coil turns on and sizzles/splashes more up. If I have fluid in the lower hole, I have fluid in the upper hole as well. But if I have fluid in the upper hole, it does not necessarily mean I have fluid in the lower hole.

Anyways, that's my reasoning. I'm not a scientist, just some guy with expendable time and a schizoid mad-scientist approach towards problems. Flicking last night coupled with blowing through the bottom upside-down was working very well and consistently, I was intentionally not cleaning out the head or the airway (just wiping the tip of the mouthpiece after), though eventually it felt like things got gummed up enough to warrant a trip to the sink. Doesn't work as well with a low tank.

Edit: I swear, it seems like leaving the inner pathway coated with juice is having a seasoning effect that's strengthening the flavor. Hard for me to tell, I'm stuck in the vapors tongue phase and cant really get much taste out of any of my juices besides cinnamon, citrus based stuff, and mint.

 

[JulesXsmokr]

I'm going to start on making coils myself.
But I have to ask you, have you tried to go back to ground zero with a brand new 1.8 store bought coil with the long stem that they are selling? maybe the small o-rings are ripped a little or something. I have the PT2 and when I bought it, originals leaked some and had a bad taste, the new coils work great so far.- just a thought..
I do like what you are doing, especially the micro coil setup..

 

[ElectricalSocket]

I like how you think Necrosis. I'll post a few ideas you gave me later today. Maybe we can bounce some ideas around and figure this out. I've been having flooding issues as well.

Such a fine line with cotton. It's worth figuring out though for sure. Talk to ya soon.

 

[Necrosis]

I'm going to start on making coils myself.
But I have to ask you, have you tried to go back to ground zero with a brand new 1.8 store bought coil with the long stem that they are selling? maybe the small o-rings are ripped a little or something.

More or less, I have, I got 6 of these heads (some 1.8 some 2.5) and 3 bases to screw them into and when I make a new coil or design, I'll use the next one in line. I haven't been able to see any notable difference between them as far as the non-coil&wick components, at least not with the ones I have.

 

[Necrosis]

I'm still using my second built microcoil for however long it's been (me and time measurements don't mix well). Decided to pull out the head and replace the wick so I snapped pictures along the way to show how I've been having the best results. It's not 100% perfect, there may be an occasional period where you start hearing the gurgles, in which case I immediately unscrew the tank off the battery and, with my finger over the mouth tip w/ a piece of tissue, flick it several times very hard to get everything forced towards the tip end. Take a few air drags with my finger over the battery connector end of the tank to confirm there's no gurgling, reconnect and go.

=== Mkay, lets start with the high-res pictures shall we? ===

This is what my head looks like when I removed it, this wick has gone through multiple tankful's worth of juices.

Popped the hood, you can see the coil is nicely gunked up from use (mostly 50/50 juices, also turned out that left side was getting hotter than the right)

Ran it under warm water to make it easier to see, normally I skip this step and go straight to removing the wick & dry burning.

Removed the wick (clipped one side and slide out the other. You can see my coil is... not straight anymore. It's gone through significant abuse as I forced different sized cotton during experiments in there distorting it over time. As long as it dry burns like a microcoil, aka red starts in the middle and moves out, seems to be fine.

Dry burned it by pulsing it for a few seconds on & off until I was satisfied, my eVic was set to 8w at the time.

After dry burning, a very good rinse is in order, and even a light toothbrushing if you want. This coil is probably nearing the end of it's life since it's not looking quite as new after this process.

Ripped some cotton off a ball, this part is an art and you have to acquire a sense for how thin you need the cotton to be.

Rolling it up, tight is good here or threading it becomes less possible. Again, this part is an art.

You want it to be somewhat loose inside the coil, if you grab one end and push in and out, it should be able to without the cotton just buncing up between your finger and the coil. What I do, once it's in like this, is slide it back and forth about half a cm which causes the coil to strip the cotton in the center making it a nice looose fit. This might require a microcoil that can handle the abuse, a normal pre-rolled coil may not maintain it's spacing, but I don't know for sure.

Now the fun step, I dont trim the wicks short, I tuck them in along that outer well until they meet opposite ends.

I think this is one of the critical steps, I snip the tips at a point so that tucking the remainder will fill every little gap, so it looks like one continuous wick. My reasoning is, you have to have the wick very consistent at the point outside where it enters the well, any gaps may make it more vulnerable to letting juice seep in.

Pop the chimney back on, and I think this part is also critical, I slide the grommet down all the way it goes, and make sure it snapps into the bottom ridge of the chimney. My reasoning, like the previous step, this grommet is there to cover the extra gap above the wick where it enters the well. With everything nice and dry, the wick should swell and form a good seal around everything ensuring no gaps (at least, thats my theory). Optionally, after the grommet is in place you can add some juice to the outer wick circle, but this doesn't seem needed. Just screw it into the tank, flip upright, give it a minute or two and it'll be saturated.

Wanted to show my tank right after, I only bothered to fill it halfway. I rarely do more than half a tank just because my vapors tongue is still in effect and I can barely taste a damn thing, and I like to switch flavors around anyways. It really doesn't seem to matter how full or empty the tank is, it works for me to the last drop with the rare gurgle that is fixed via flicking.

Final thoughts ===============================================

A fresh wick on a cleaned coil will produce amazing vapor and flavor with a creamy-like texture. It works better without an air-flow restriction, at least I find, I guess more air = better.

Performance, flavor, and vapor is at peak performance for the first tank's worth on a fresh wick. To maximize everything, it would be ideal to thread in a new wick, which is pretty darn fast and easy after acquiring a nack for it as shown above.

If switching flavors but the wick is still plenty fresh, I either just fill the tank w/ the new juice and go, OR, I rinse the head (without removing the chimney) under warm water. If you do this, you can screw it back in, but you will need to do short pulsing & puffing (dont bother inhaling, just trying towork the water out). I give a few good seconds between pulsing just to be careful, if that wick should dry burn, you'll taste it and it doesnt go away without replacing the wick. Once the water is out and it's saturated itself with juice, you'll know. Vapor production may not be quite the same as a fresh wick.

If I have juice in a tank not in use, I take off the drip tip and store it upside down. Theory is 1) the wick does not have a chance to over-saturate and 2) any excess juice in the well will have a chance to either rewick, or at least drip out the chimney via gravity.

I've only tried 50/50 DIY juices and 80/20 pre-mixed assrapepriced juices. High VG should work, just draw carefully until you know. I did have one dry hit with this setup on a 50/50 juice and holy hell was that the worst thing I've experienced short of receiving my aga-t2 cracked.

If you think you're getting a burnt taste, it's possible a previous hit didn't wick itself perfectly. It tends not to go away so just put in a new wick and resume. Right now my lost taste only allows me to detect burnt by french inhaling, so I don't know too much on this.

30g 12/11 wraps around a 16g needle is what I think I was using here, 30g 10/9 seemed to work fine as well, I dont know what the optimal microcoil setup is in wire thickness, number of wraps, or the circumference. I'm at a point, over 30ft of kanthal later, where I've experimented enough and just want to kick back (and get my sense of taste back .......mit) and enjoy.

Not sure how long a coil will last, but seems they can take a good beating. I thought when I built this coil (my memory is weak) it was measuring at around the 2.4ohms range, right now it's 3.0ohms. It gradually built up resistance, so I assume that just that alone may be an easy indicator when it's time to rebuild.

Stay hydrated! I dont know if drinking water is enough, my mouth isn't dry but feels like the inside of my mouth has developed wrinkles. They say moderation is key, but I say, if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing.

 

[Geo7163]

Tried this method tonight. I have tried cotton before on a Kanger head but never wrapped around. It makes the draw kind of tight but not bad at all. Thanks for the write up, nice to try something new.