My thought on E cigs

[davec33]

Hey all....
Ok i have been thinking about this for some time , now why all this bad reports from the goverment departments regarding our ecigs ?
Ok well lets break this down a bit .

cigs contain
nicotine
+4000 other known and unknown chems
and 1000 of people dye from smoking every year !
passive smoking also kills !!!

but lets look at that again +4000 other chemicals ?? ok so their ok to let us smoke something that contains that many chemicals and kills that many people ... im sure each of those 4000 chems have not been tested individualy to see what effects they have on us all over a period of time but hey its ok because it makes them money ..... ok their it is money £££££££$$$$$$$$$$$$


so as long as we make them money they will pass what ever .... NOW TO ECIGS lets look at them closer....

they contain the drug nicotine .
no known deaths as of yet
pg / vg
water or h2o

ok nicotine is in cigs so we will ignore that drug
water well we all drink it its approved by the goverment lol
pg/ vg its in all or most foods and most meds as thickening agents and texture again approved by all goverments
hmmmmmmmm ok vapor which is in all clubs in their smoke matchines again approved by the goverment

So if all the product above are approved on their own why if we put them together is it classed as being unknown and banned and being put down by many in places and goverments ??? ahhhh is it £££££££$$$$$$$$
i mean flour is approved by the goverment and if we add sugar butter and eggs again approved by goverments Does that make pancakes a banned product ? and do pancakes need testing ??? oh my god we are all going to die no more making pies or pancakes lol

COME ON PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP SMOKING COSTS THE GOVERMENT SO MUCH MONEY FROM SMOKING REALTED ILLNESES
sorry re my spelling lol but i just cant understand it all what is so wrong with ecigs ? again no one has died from them .

i guess its about who has more power to controll us and at the moment il bet that at thr moment cig companys tell the goverment what to do .. orWilliam Gates III

 

[CES]

you have a good question and, as you noted, the short answer is money...you might want to check out the campaigning subforum.

 

[Rationality]

If marijuana is still illegal based on paper companies' fear of losing money, why would ecigs which threaten another huge industry be legal? Weed is far less harmful than alcohol and ecigs are clearly far less harmful than cigarettes (especially if they were FDA approved and eliquid content more regulated). Basically.. FDA is looking out for the interests of the established businesses.


Not to assume anyone else here thinks pot should be legalized, just showing that something that has been proven as benign (or certainly more benign than more accepted alternatives) can still be demonized as ecigs seem to be.

 

[TheBlueAdept]

It isn't just the paper companies btw, it's also the textile industry and big pharma..

As others noted, just a big game of Follow The Money!

 

[honuhart]

and how many big companies are the suppliers of those 4000 chemicals...its all about the money..

 

[oso]

Two guys standing by the side of the road...

"I'll take a quarter ounce of green tea and 5 atomizers.... How much will that run me?"

 

[~Jo~]

... and ecigs are clearly far less harmful than cigarettes (especially if they were FDA approved and eliquid content more regulated). Basically.. FDA is looking out for the interests of the established businesses.

I don't understand the thinking behind the part that I put in bold. The last sentence says it all: the FDA is looking out for the interests of the businesses. That's what they do. Look at any set of FDA regulations, and for every one that is supposed to be about consumer safety, you should find at least ten that protect business interests.

I neither need nor want FDA approval or regulation. If I want to know what's in my eliquid, then I can make it myself or buy only from those who offer full disclosure of their ingredients. If I suspect that I cannot trust a supplier, then I won't buy from them.

Actually, that's no different than it would be if the products were regulated.

On the flip side of that coin, if I happen to disagree with FDA "experts" about whether or not an ingredient is "safe," I'd prefer to make the call myself rather than being told what can legally be included in eliquid. Even worse is when they determine that something must be added and dangerous chemicals are included because the government said so in order to "protect" us. (Fire proof cigs, anyone?)

To agree that the government should regulate eliquids I'd have to believe a) that they have MY best interests at heart, b) that they are right more often than they are wrong, and c) that they would react immediately to new research. Then I'd also have to return to a childlike state, content to let others make my decisions for me.

 

[Cali]

I know my opinion on this subject is unpopular but I still feel it is valid. I honestly do feel there is a need for some sort of regulation on this product. Simply because it is being ingested into our bodies and I have said many times that in a world where I have to sift through and check every individual piece of candy my kids snag on Halloween because there's always that chance then it is jsut a feasible that someone could do the same to the liquids we use.

Restaurants are all regulated by a health and safety code. This isnt' because the government is attempting to make more money it's because without the regulations anyone anywhere can serve, prepare, and store food items in an unsanitary environment resulting in illness and even death.

Do I want the FDA jacking up the prices and becoming big brother on this? No I do not, but I DO feel that there should be some sort of regulations in place to help ensure the safety of buyers and to have some accountability to those that sell.

 

[sporkboy]

I know my opinion on this subject is unpopular but I still feel it is valid. I honestly do feel there is a need for some sort of regulation on this product. Simply because it is being ingested into our bodies and I have said many times that in a world where I have to sift through and check every individual piece of candy my kids snag on Halloween because there's always that chance then it is jsut a feasible that someone could do the same to the liquids we use.

Restaurants are all regulated by a health and safety code. This isnt' because the government is attempting to make more money it's because without the regulations anyone anywhere can serve, prepare, and store food items in an unsanitary environment resulting in illness and even death.

Do I want the FDA jacking up the prices and becoming big brother on this? No I do not, but I DO feel that there should be some sort of regulations in place to help ensure the safety of buyers and to have some accountability to those that sell.

Currently all of the ingredients are controlled by the FDA except for the Nic which I believe is controlled by the EPA.

Both of the agencies have failed to do their jobs in recent years, look at all the e-coli outbreaks, cross pollenation with genetically modified crops. Personal safety has to start with you. this is why I like to deal with small producers, they take pride in their product and are more than willing to let me see their facilites. (again this includes the food i put into my body as well)

 

[~Jo~]

I know my opinion on this subject is unpopular but I still feel it is valid. I honestly do feel there is a need for some sort of regulation on this product.

Cali, I must respectfully disagree, and I'd like to explain why.

Regarding restaurants (since you brought up that example), a popular large chain restaurant in my hometown has had multiple cases of hepatitis over the years, and they're still open today. OTOH, my family's restaurant closed down many years ago because the cost of bringing the building and the equipment up to code was literally more than the building was worth. There was never a single reported case of food poisoning from our restaurant.

As a small farmer, we can't sell our eggs off of our farm in our state without individually checking each egg for blood spots that sometimes appear in egg yolks. They're not harmful, but the law says they can't be sold *unless* one has a factory farm with X number of chickens. Then, the law says that a certain number of those eggs is okay, so they can sell every egg without checking. Dairy? We can't sell dairy off our farm, either. It doesn't have anything to do with sanitation, it has to do with where the lights are in our milking area, and the bathroom and washing area are in the house rather than the milking area. In other states, it's illegal to sell raw milk at all because the government has determined it to be unsafe. All the people who disagree are SOL because the government took it upon themselves to make the decision for everyone.

A more FDA specific example would be the melamine that is in baby formula. When reports of this broke out, the FDA, protectors of the people, determined that a little was probably okay and nothing to worry about.

I pay more for organic beds so that I can avoid the government mandated chemicals that get sprayed onto mattresses. My children usually sleep in regular clothes rather than pajamas so that they don't have to breathe in government mandated chemical flame ......ants while they sleep or sleep in uncomfortably tight cotton which is also often chemically treated. And the list goes on.

The things the government insists upon adding are even worse than the things they won't let us have.

Jefferson said that he "would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty than those attending too small degree of it," and that's where I stand. Government regulations take away freedom from all under the guise of good intentions, and it doesn't matter if the facts do not support their decisions; we're expected to live in accordance to their decisions anyway.

No regulations leaves each of us free to do our own research and make our own decisions regarding from whom to buy and which ingredients to accept.

Those who want regulations will be taking my freedom, too, and I oppose that. We all made the decision to pick up smoking, and now we're all making the decision to switch to vaping instead of just quitting. We *could* just quit. Lots of people have before us, but we don't *want* to. I take full responsibility for both smoking and vaping, and I'll bear the consequences of them. I'm banking on vaping having no or at least fewer consequences, as most of us are.

Don't forget: By saying the government has the right to regulate eliquid to keep it safe, you're also saying that the government has the right to ban it as completely unsafe. NORML has links to a great many government studies that prove that the government doesn't always pay a great deal of attention to their own studies when making decisions.

 

[Thornbyrd]

Taxes- it all comes down to taxes. How much do you really think that pack of analog costs the manufactor to make? Hmm I can buy a carton at duty free for $30 per trip outside Canada but to buy a carton on a regular basis its $80. $50 in taxes per carton that's what the Cdn and Ont gov't are bringing in.

The argument that the long term costs in health care caused by analogs doesn't matter to them, the taxes on the cartons gets added to their budget now. The health care costs lets be realistic that's the next or maybe the one after thats problem so there is no need for them to budget for it.

E-cigs threaten that income stream and how their time in power is fewed through history.

Don't kid yourself and think their interest in banning e-cigs has anything to do with your or my health, they could care less, they'll be long retired from politics before our health costs start hammering holes in the budget and it will be someone elses problem.

Just my opinion but e-cigs are not the first alternative that the governments have attempted to or banned regardless of the positive impact on peoples health. There's big money to be made in treating disease for prolonged periods versus curing or preventing the illness in the first place.

But I'll get off my soap box now with one final thought-

"If I'm old enough to vote or die for this country (join the armed forces) then I'm old enough to chose how I die and if that is through the use of analogs or e-cigs that should be my choice not the governments"

Thornbyrd

 

[Henry ∇ George]

i'm surprised that big tobacco haven't jumped onto it. i think they're waiting for the small vendors to work out the kinks and to allow them to test the government.

big pharma would rather you take their psychotic mind-altering drugs (chantix, wellbutrin) along with their vaccines for swine and avian bird viruses they create in a lab and have big media to hype it.

what i think is that the nanny-state is scared that e-smoking will turn into a big craze. big tobacco, big pharma, and big government would hate this as well. they'd rather have you hooked on cancer sticks, taking big pharma drugs, and paying through the nose in taxes. it would also hurt social security since smokers would live long enough to collect it.

i think this one took them by surprise. or maybe they plan on taxing it. i don't see them trying to kill an addictive industry with little cost to the public.

 

[CaptJay]

I think people in power forget (and regret) your constitituion is written down - government FOR the people BY the people OF the people..something in there seems to keep getting lost in translation I feel....
I wonder which part that is...

 

[Henry ∇ George]

The two-bit nanny politicians are going to want to ban it to prevent it being a gateway to analogs.

The high-powered politicians (Bilderberg, CFR) are going to want it legal as something new to tax the middle class. And they'll want it as a gateway drug for analogs for Big Pharma and Big Tobacco. There is a concern that the prison industrial complex would want it illegal as a reason to lock people up. However, the gateway mechanism would still give police a reason to violate your civil rights and use it as probable cause to search you, especially if it really does act like a gateway.

Local banning is just two-bit politicians. The big corrupt politicians will recognize they'd want it to turn into a craze and use it as a tax on the poor while they're at it. I don't see them getting any benefit with it being illegal. Pot already serves that purpose well since it is easy to grow, easy to bust people for it, and provides a good means to corrupt government officials.

I'd be concern if the UK bans it. I just hope the big power wakes up and stops this non-sense from rogue nanny politicians. They should keep it untaxed until it starts a big craze. While I'm not one to support the actions of a corrupt state, a broken clock is still right twice per day.

 

[Henry ∇ George]

i just don't see a black market for e-cigs. it would serve the new world order no purpose to ban cheap plastic crap from china.

 

[Cali]

Here's my deal. If Vendor A in State A sells a multiple bad batches of e-liquid to Customers B,C,D,E,F, and G in states here there and overseas resulting in severe illness or even fatality what is the recourse as of right now? I know that's a bit drastic and even a little extreme but that is a worst case scenario. If this were to happen and the media were to run with a story like this right now then I can almost guarantee it would all but shut down this industry or at the very least STRICT regulations.
There are unscrupulous people in the world we live in. There are people who will poison and hurt others jsut because they can. I'm saying there needs to be SOME sort of regulation in place before things come to something like that.
Does our government have plenty of laws and regulations that make no sense? Of course they do. Just as with any other bureaucratic process there will be things that are slow, overburdened, and just plain difficult.

 

[Thornbyrd]

Here's my deal. If Vendor A in State A sells a multiple bad batches of e-liquid to Customers B,C,D,E,F, and G in states here there and overseas resulting in severe illness or even fatality what is the recourse as of right now?

I can see your logic, but I'm more concerned about them coming up with reasonable laws regarding actual prescriptions like oxycotin and vicodin prior to them diverting their attention to e-cigs.

When your dealing with an internet community then your dealing with the whole world making it far more difficult to come up with a responsible way to govern these items.

In fact, I believe that law enforcement is even having difficulty making laws fit for contract hits that are done through the internet involving parties that live in different countries.

Although I can see your point about crazies wanting to hurt people and the opportunity that ecigs might present - I think there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to internet laws for example:

Child porn
Illegal sale of Prescription Drugs
Weapons and Arms dealings
Hate Propaganda

I'd be far more interesed and worried about the governments addressing these issues first then spending time worrying about e-cigs and the suppliers.

Just my thoughts

 

[Aunt Cranky]

As much as I would like to be assured that the liquid I am buying is "safe" and has it's contents certified by some government agency, anytime the government starts touching something it's going to cost the consumer more money.
There's also that yucky "tax" thing.
One of the reasons for folks switching from analogs to vaping (or supplementing analog use with vaping) is the cost savings. (in MA cigs are roughly $7.50 a pack now)
If the government is involved, they're going to tax the hell out ecigs once they figure out how to categorize them.
Imagine they go so far as requiring a prescription for liquid nicotine, or require you to sign your name at the pharmacy counter like you do (at least here in Mass.) for psuedophedrine (deongestant).

I think that, at least for now, this industry will police itself as long as there is a medium such as this forum (and You Tube) who will out a bad supplier or a bad product.

Government regulation attached to this product may not really be a good thing for us all. Once they get involved, there's really no guarantee what they'll do with regards to the various ingredients that can make up an e-juice.

 

[Katattack]

QC is important but I don't think the gov't needs to step in. An independent body who has QC critera and voluntary compliance that leads to a "seal of approval" much like the good housekeeping seal or how the NSA/NNFA approves vitamins/supplements with "GMP" approval. These approvals are not mandatory but having them means consumers tend to gravitate toward your product.

 

[thoughtfull1]

E cigs need to stay legal. Pot should be legal. Alcohol is responsible for so much personal illness, addiction, and (second hand casualties) why not have another prohibition? because.....

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!!! Disgusting, but true.

There are those of us who do not dismiss the idea that they already know how to cure cancer. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY, AND IT'S A SHAME.