Need help DIY'n + 100VG-PGFREE + RDA

[survivalist538]

Before I ask you guys anything, I would like to just thank everyone that replied to my questions and for being very helpful on this forum. This community is truly amazing with what they do, and with their broad experience which comes very handy in helping new comers into this life changing accomplishment is worth the appreciation.

I want to make this short, I have a crazy reaction to PG even at as low as 5% after many testings and trying different ratios. Symptoms show in response to my nasal, short breath, wheezing, itchy eyes, muscle aches, and just a sick feeling. Now, I do not know if this is because I feel allergic to PG because when I stop vaping PG at any ratio, I'm back to normal within the next 2 hours. I stop vaping PG at all like mentioned in my last post and switched to 100VG from past few days now and none of the symptoms respond. I am loving it at full 100VG with 3mg nic (VG based)..

I bought some ethyl alcohol based flavoring (after checking their SDS for any traces of PG) and did a quick steep using hot bath, leaving cap off for 24 hours to let the ethyl escape, leaving behind my computer as it's always running. I will be steeping for longer in the future without taking the cap off, but this was to test it as soon as I can. So I been trying it since yesterday, and I am happy to say that using them was a success with no symptoms responding. 2.4% total flavoring as they are super concentrates. I moved from a MTL (tank) to a nobu mini rda because of high VG, since it doesn't do great in tanks. I have had this rda from a very long time which I never used before but now going day in and day out on it.

Here is the problem I am running into, slight burnt hits. Slight, because I still give myself 2 minutes between 1-2 drags to let the cotton soak up with the thick VG. Ever with this practice, sooner or later I get that slight dry hit again. I tried using distilled water before but without flavorings, but I hated the taste of DW even at 5% so I did not add it again after that. I can taste the water, which is not pleasant to my taste buds, it also leaves a aftertaste for a while which doesn't taste good at all to me.

Please give me any suggestions or advice to follow. I desperately need help, I even tried searching all the forums for the answer without any help. Here are my questions:

1) Should I try DW again with flavorings this time, if so, what percentage should I use in my total mix if my flavoring is at 2.4% and would I still taste the distilled water? Even slightly? because I truly HATED how it tasted!

I bought myself a bonza rda which should be arriving tomorrow. It has a deep well for that one, and it may become more of a hassle now since it'll take longer for VG to travel up to the coils.

2) If I made a wrong choice in picking that rda for my style of vaping, it's fine, can you please suggest me a rda that can and will handle 100VG? or 97.6VG?

I do not want to add more flavoring to thin out my VG because I like the way VG taste by itself, and I am looking to bring slight flavoring to it, enough to taste something there, with it not all up in my nose. You can also suggest a TANK you can vape 100VG in, but I know it's better to go for a rda as many recommended for my application. Price does not matter as I have already spent enough money that I won't mind spending more on a good tank/rda that works.

3) Do my coils make a difference as well in wicking that high VG?

I am using drago cotton or koh gen do for my builds (tried all methods including fluffing them out first) I have been using regular dual claptons at 2.5ID and 3.0ID, I don't see the difference between the two with dry-hits. I did order some regular round wire 24 gauge and I will be testing to see if I can make a simple dual that will wick better for high VG.

What am I trying to achieve? I got into this because of nicotine. Simply put, I want to take at least 4-5 drags straight to feel my buzz without worrying about dry hits using PG-free and extremely high VG mix.

If there is another thread that I missed out on and it may help me, please post it here. Thank you guys once again, I am really looking forward to your replies, if any.

-Zen

 

[IDJoel]

Hi Zen, glad you got your PG question resolved.

As for the dry hit questions, I will take a stab at it, but please remember that these are my opinions only. If there is anything useful... great. If not... ya' got what you paid for.

1) Should I try DW again with flavorings this time, if so, what percentage should I use in my total mix if my flavoring is at 2.4% and would I still taste the distilled water? Even slightly? because I truly HATED how it tasted!

I am in a similar boat; in that I did not enjoy my brief experiments with DW and quickly abandoned them. I will readily yield to those who have experience making it work.

The only thing I might offer is to make sure you are using distilled/demineralized water. Bottled water, spring water, filtered water, tap water, is/are not the same thing.

Don't forget to experiment with lowering your temperature/power setting. Water boils at a lower temperature than VG (or PG for that matter). So it stands to reason, that adding water to an e-liquid, would also lower its boiling point. Lowering the temp/power might help reduce the unpleasant taste (but I am only guessing).

2) If I made a wrong choice in picking that rda for my style of vaping, it's fine, can you please suggest me a rda that can and will handle 100VG? or 97.6VG?

Any RDA should be able to accommodate 100% VG. There is no secondary reservoir it needs to move the VG from (e.g. no "port," or restriction, the e-liquid must pass through). It is basically your wicking material sitting in a puddle of e-liquid.

So, if that is true, the only things affecting juice-flow, should(?) be; the wicking material itself (composition; what it is made of, and how well that material wicks), and wicking technique/method (too tight; too loose; just right?). (More about these two in the next section)

Now RTAs, and RDTAs, are a whole other matter. either the juice has to pass through a restricted orifice (RTAs) to reach the wick, or the juice has to travel along a wick, which passes through a restriction. In both these cases devise design can indeed impede the use of thick e-liquids.

3) Do my coils make a difference as well in wicking that high VG?

Coils, in and of themselves, shouldn't(?) make a difference... if they are wicked appropriately for their needs. Of course every coil is different; diameter of the coil, mass of the coil, coil material(s), coil construction, all have influence on how to best wick it.

Instead, I would hypothesize, that it is the manner of wicking, or the firing temp/power, or a combination of both, that is causing the problems.

Over-wicking (using too much wicking material), can create a constriction that prohibits fast enough flow to keep up with vaping demand. Under-wicking (not using enough wicking material), can leave parts of the coil with inadequate contact/liquid supply, and drys out faster than the rest of the coil. Both problems, especially when slight (close but not quite right), can allow a couple of decent hits before the symptoms appear.

Excessive temperature/power will cause the liquid to vaporize faster than the wick can replenish it. When the coil is cool, and until it reaches full temperature, the wick is keeping up allowing decent hits. Once peak operating temp is reached, the majority of liquid is consumed, and dry hits commence. Higher mass coils (thicker wire, and/or multi-wire complex coils) require more power to heat up in a timely manner. This can make finding the right balance between too much/not enough power even more challenging.

Complex, multi-wire coil designs, depend on the capillary action of all the nooks and crannies, in order to have adequate liquid (the wicking material is directly contacting far less than 50% of the coil's surface area). Excessive heat (power), excessive frequency (too many hits too fast), and/or excessive duration (too long of a hit) can all exacerbate dry hits (lower temperature will help minimize the latter two). Simple, single wire coils, will be less susceptible to these variances.

This brings up another variable; the rate of inhalation. If I take a gentle puff (slow, steady, inhale), I will have less impact on the coil temperature, than a full on hard-hitting drag (rapid, high-volume inhale) which cools the coil considerably. So, if I have the power cranked (to offset the heat loss) to take a big-old cloud chuckin' vape; and then turn around and take just a little "sipping" vape on the exact same setup, I am likely to get way too hot of a vape (which can lead to a dry or burnt hit). If I am dramatically changing the way I inhale I may also need to change my coil temperature.

Then, there is the possibility of limitless combinations, of excess power plus wicking errors. The higher the power; the faster wicking deficiencies are revealed.

So... what the heck does all this mean?

I would suggest a few simplifications until you get the bugs worked out:
1) Start by using simple coils. smaller gauge (26ga. or smaller? I like 28ga. for my daily vaping). For the time being, forget about cloud chucking and nick buzz, and focus on getting a quality vape. Simple, single wire, spaced coils are about as simple as you can get.

2) Consider using a single coil build. When any atty has only one coil the possibility of coil imbalance is eliminated.

If dual coils are imbalanced, one will heat up faster than the other, and this makes for a power setting problem. If the power is set to accommodate the faster heating coil; the second coil is producing very little vapor. If the power setting is set to accommodate the slower heating coil, the faster heating coil will overheat, and give dry and/or burnt hits.

There are both RDAs, as well as RTAs, that are specifically designed for single coils. Any dripper (RDA) can be used with only one coil, but it may be too airy, and not provide optimal flavor. Tanks (RTAs), may or may not be able to accommodate both single and dual coil setups, depending on specific design.

3) Start vaping with your power setting low... especially with a fresh build. This does a couple of things for you. It allows for a gentle break-in period for both the coil as well as the wick. It also will provide better feedback, on how much power is best for your build and you and your own vaping style, as you slowly increase the power. Start low enough that you are getting just a hint of vapor production.

Higher is not always better.

Once you figure out how much power works best, for you and that particular build, you can reevaluate how much nic and flavor you might need/want to use in you e-liquid.

4) Wicking. You mentioned you have "tried everything." I know how frustrating getting the wicking "right" can be. Don't give up; keep at it.

Maybe even consider a different material. There is a significant number of vapers who prefer the wicking performance of rayon. From what I have read (I have yet to try rayon myself), it is wicked differently than cotton though, so some research is recommended. There is a great thread on ECF dedicated to rayon use here: Rayon Wick - Better Flow, Flavor, Longevity, and Nic Hit!! - Pt.2

Less finicky wicking is another benefit of simple builds. Smaller gauges, single wires, and lower power/temperatures seem to be much more forgiving (in my experience) than heavier, more complex builds. Get the basics down first; then you can move on to those builds requiring more technical precision.
I have no idea if/how any of this is applicable to you and your situation. If anything is helpful; !

Good luck on getting it figured out!

 

[stols001]

I'm sensitive to PG, not so much so that I can't use some lower PG to flavor, but I sympathize with your situation. When I can, I try to get flavors in VG, but that can be quite limiting.

I do use distilled water in my mixes currently, and it helps thin the juice and reduce temps and I did find it actually improved the quality of my vape, including making it more flavorful which I was not expecting. I will say, I did it "reluctantly" and mainly to lower the temperature in my vape, but it did work, and work better than I expected.

You could try using PEG400 in your vape, it's a variant of PG and some folks aren't sensitive to it, the way they are to PG. I got a small amount, test vaped it to see if I could tolerate it, and it's now in my mixes at 40% but I am waiting for them to steep. I don't know how PEG400 really functions as a flavor carrier, so I started out with my usual flavoring percentages. I refuse to taste it before it steeps adequately, as otherwise I won't really know how it performs, but I am excited about it (getting a bit tired of the VG fog).

As far as wicking, with thick liquids in more MTL tanks, I had to develop priming/wicking/vaping techniques that worked. I do use rayon as it gunks far less quickly and that is useful. I also developed the habit of inhaling a few seconds after the fire button is released, to keep juice wicking nicely into my coils, and more open airflow helps as well. But, you can make almost any type of liquid work in most tanks with a bit of experimenting. I will say also, that adding DW to my mixes improved coil life, so that was helpful as well. I'm also happy to have PG to try.

Best of luck, and I hope you get it sorted out. PG sensitivity is a pain and sometimes a large one. You might also want to look at flavor "crystals" that you can dissolve into your mixes, or alcohol based flavors. I hope you are able to make things work for you.

Anna

 

[NicotineRush]

What am I trying to achieve? I got into this because of nicotine. Simply put, I want to take at least 4-5 drags straight to feel my buzz without worrying about dry hits using PG-free and extremely high VG mix.

Up your nic so you don't have to hit on it so much. I would imagine that quickly hitting any tank 4-5 times in a row would give dry hits.

Joel's suggestions are spot on. Low Power. Single Coil. Try the DW again.

 

[BrotherBob]

I am loving it at full 100VG with 3mg nic (VG based)

I mix max VG. I can tolerate up to 15% PG that comes from my flavors. Often, if I feel that the mix may need a little smoothing, I'll add a small drop of VG to my RDA mix (use a dropper bottle I keep full of VG).

Here is the problem I am running into, slight burnt hits

To reduce burnt hits, could try vaping at low temperatures.
I'm at high ohms and low watts (2.2-3 ohms/6-7w/32ga Kanthal A1;4-5 turns;0.118 inch ID;Rayon wick).
Start 6 w. and work up wattage wise until you see a small cloud. It will take 3-4 long puffs to get your wire coil hot enough to obtain consistent good performance (clouds). After a few min. consider backing off .2 watts or so to cool the wire coil and vape on from there. I find 32 ga. will hold residual heat after a few minutes after start up.
I don't use any DI water in any of my mixes.

 

[survivalist538]

I would suggest a few simplifications until you get the bugs worked out:
1) Start by using simple coils. smaller gauge (26ga. or smaller? I like 28ga. for my daily vaping). For the time being, forget about cloud chucking and nick buzz, and focus on getting a quality vape. Simple, single wire, spaced coils are about as simple as you can get.

2) Consider using a single coil build. When any atty has only one coil the possibility of coil imbalance is eliminated.

I thank you so much for this post. I am finally free of burnt hits and I won't be switching back to dual coil anytime soon. I am assuming, just assuming, that it was because high VG wasn't able to provide to both coils equally why I ended up with SLIGHT, like mentioned, burnt hits. Switching to a single coil did the trick and I was still restricting myself to 4-5 hits but now I am all at it without dry hits. I did start using the Bonza RDA which arrived just yesterday instead of my nobu mini. I might try the nobu mini again with single coil but I don't really care no more as this is working perfectly fine for me now. This was truly amazing, such a simple advice and it worked wonders for me. I want to look further into good single coil RDAs now, lol.. it never stops does it haha.. I might remain at simple coils as well now. THANK YOU SO MUCH once again! Much appreciation!

-Zen

 

[survivalist538]

You could try using PEG400 in your vape

Anna

I gotta give this a try but thank you so much.. My issue was solved by switching to a single simple coil build.. It's truly wonderful now! Thank you for your feedback Anna.

-Zen

 

[Letitia]

Single coil RTA & RDAs made a come back in the last few months. Maybe look into squonking for out and about convenience. Happy to read you found a solution.

 

[IDJoel]

THANK YOU SO MUCH once again! Much appreciation!

I'm glad you found success! Thanks for coming back and letting us know what worked!

 

[dc99]

Glad everything worked out for you. In the future you can try what Stols001 said. PEG400 has been a life saver for me. I can actually do a 50/50 blend with no reactions.

 

[Qaay]

What am I trying to achieve? I got into this because of nicotine. Simply put, I want to take at least 4-5 drags straight to feel my buzz without worrying about dry hits using PG-free and extremely high VG mix.

If there is another thread that I missed out on and it may help me, please post it here. Thank you guys once again, I am really looking forward to your replies, if any.

-Zen

In general PG has two roles in a juice - flavour carrier and viscosity reducer. Because of your alergy to PG you will probably use VG based flavouring so using any PG equivalent like PEG(poliethylene glycol) or DPG(dipropylene glycol) is pointless because both are also thicker than PG.
Well... since you want only to reduce the viscosity of your juice so you can add ordinary water... or/and ethanol(maximum about 20% of water / 5% of ethanol). Just check the wicking of your diluted base before adding flavor... excessive spitback is a sign of too "watery" juice.

 

[Letitia]

I do not recommend adding tap or bottled drinking water to your mixes. I use DW in mine and they are wicking well in my rtas. Vodka works as well but needs to breath.

 

[stols001]

Distilled water is best. I've used vodka from time to time, it's okay. It's also hard to let it breathe as I figure it will all evaporate. Still holding out on my PEG400 mixes, but I'm looking forward to them. I still used DW though...

Anna

 

[dc99]

Distilled water is best. I've used vodka from time to time, it's okay. It's also hard to let it breathe as I figure it will all evaporate. Still holding out on my PEG400 mixes, but I'm looking forward to them. I still used DW though...

Anna

Anna, give them a try. Ive always had to do max VG and never knew anything was missing. While Im not going to say there is a great difference I do get a more vivid flavor profile. Im not sure if the PEG I have contains DW but it is nowhere near as thick as my VG. Not as thin as PG but a lot thinner than VG.

 

[stols001]

Yeah, I have 1100 m.g. mixed up and steeping. I did experiment with just vaping it first, and it seems I can tolerate it. I put 5% DW in my mixes this time, mainly because I didn't want to make them TOTALLY PEG400 heavy and I only had one bottle. I'm looking forward to it, but don't want to vape them without a decent steep time, since I have no clue how well PEG400 carries flavor.

But, I will be excited in about 3 weeks when I get to try them. I may find PEG400 helpful enough that I don't need DW water at all, but I guess we'll see. DW is a pain as it can evaporate. I am excited though!

Anna

 

[Qaay]

I'm looking forward to it, but don't want to vape them without a decent steep time, since I have no clue how well PEG400 carries flavor.

Anna

Comparable to PG - some people say PEG works even better as a flavor carrier. I didn't tried tho - some time ago i had an idea to make 2 samples of the same(proportionally) juice to check this "better flavor" claim but as i got absolutely no problem with PG my motivation was very weak .

 

[stols001]

Well, that's good to hear, anyway. I did some research about safety issues, but wasn't really looking for more than that. I flavored my regular fashion, so I expect (since I was using VG and DW other than flavors) that I may have more flavor, not less. Good to know, thanks.

Anna

 

[dc99]

Well, that's good to hear, anyway. I did some research about safety issues, but wasn't really looking for more than that. I flavored my regular fashion, so I expect (since I was using VG and DW other than flavors) that I may have more flavor, not less. Good to know, thanks.

Anna

Im not going to say you get more flavor but its more vivid. The top notes seem to shine a little more than with just VG. I got mine from NR and it seems a tad bit thicker than PG but nowhere near as thick as VG. I can imagine steeping time will go down a bit from pure VG.