New member + another article on EU E-Cig ruling...

[AegisPrime]

Hey everyone - been off the analogs for a week now thanks to e-cigs and thought it was time to join the cause

I'll sign up to CASAA later on but for now, here's another article on the rather worrying turn of events in the EU E-Cig proposals...

E-cigarette decision passed to member states | European Voice

These are particularly worrying comments (my emphasis):

Green MEPs, who have been more sceptical about e-cigarettes, gave a cautious welcome to the deal. "E-cigarettes will finally be regulated in the near future,” said Swedish Green MEP Carl Schlyter. “Member states will be free to decide whether they want to subject them to authorisation as medicines or apply new rules that should ensure the quality and safety of these products. Either way should ensure that e-cigarettes can be used safely to help smokers stop smoking, and not act as a gateway product for non-smokers.”

“As the new rules do not regulate the use of flavours in e-cigarettes, it is important that member states that will not apply pharma legislation act quickly to ban the current range of flavours that deliberately target younger users,” he added.

 

[dice57]

Just another reason to buy quality rba's that will last a lifetime.

Welcome and congrats on your vape. The best thing I can say about the rulings in the UK, is not a total loss, but definitely not a victory for the Vapers.

 

[AegisPrime]

Hey! And thanks!

The problem is that the ruling only limits choice for EU customers - the situation is this:

Individual member states are free to declare e-cigs as medicines if they so wish.

Max dose is 20mg/1ml with carto sizes capped at 1ml.

Member states are free to ban refillables and if just three states do then the EU can ban them across the whole of Europe.

Member states are free to ban flavours they deem attractive to younger users.

Basically, this ruling provides no protections to E-Cigs and limits the dose of cartos/pre-mixed e-liquids to below what some users need to quit analogs - it's utterly useless

 

[meanckz]

yeah, that's pretty much how I understood it, I'm at work and can really read too deeply right now, however the article seemed not all bad nor all good (which can hardly be expected, after all the misinformation that has been previously broadcast)

 

[AegisPrime]

Well, they're voting on whether to adopt it or not today so I guess we'll have to see what happens...

The general consensus of even the 'supportive' MEPs seems to have been 'well, you were always going to lose some freedoms' - I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can see that as a win (and they do) - it's just less of a defeat than it could have been.

 

[dice57]

Totally agree with you Aegis, it's a backdoor ruling that could still play into big tobaccos hands, but also could work for the Vapers as well. Vapers world wide need to unite, and educate the masses and make their voices heard. I sign every petition and post them on FB and the forums I frequent, imploring for just consideration for the vape industry. What affects one of us affects us all.

It's simply not in the Worlds Best Health interest to put unnecessary regulations on vape gear and juices. Fortunately I have enough quality mods and rba's to last me the rest of my life. Have a bag full of cotton and hemp fiber and a large spool of wire. Have a good supply of base, just need to keep my eye on things for long term inventory purposes.

The main people being harmed by any regulation are new vapers and current smokers.

 

[Anjaffm]

Of course it is useless.
So it is important that we write to our MEP's - again - to inform them on what is important. Again.
Which I will do. Tonight. Again.

Remember: the MEP's will still have to vote on that proposal.

 

[AegisPrime]

It's simply not in the Worlds Best Health interest to put unnecessary regulations on vape gear and juices. Fortunately I have enough quality mods and rba's to last me the rest of my life. Have a bag full of cotton and hemp fiber and a large spool of wire. Have a good supply of base, just need to keep my eye on things for long term inventory purposes.

The main people being harmed by any regulation are new vapers and current smokers.

Completely agree - at worst EU should have classed e-cigs as tobacco products thereby ensuring that they could be purchased in all EU member states in the same places people can currently buy tobacco. The proposed legislation allows individual EU states to 'make it up as they go' and still potentially ban refillables/flavours as they see fit - the 20mg/1ml is the only positive to come out of this and to 24mg+ vapers even that is a disgrace

 

[djsvapour]

I am stocking up on anything that can be rebuilt. $2 clearo, $50 RBA.

This is what annoys me.

The deal would allow refillable cartridges, but they must be in self-contained packets that would avoid spilling. Cartridges could have a maximum size of 1ml containing up to 20mg of nicotine, roughly equivalent to one pack of cigarettes.

As I predicted over a year ago. The rip-off carto brands with their promises of "300-400 puffs and 1-2 packs of cigarettes" have got deep into the psyche of the people discussing/voting/legislating.

1mg of 20mg may contain 20mg of nicotine, but you are not going to YIELD 20mg. I used 0.9ml cartos with 24mg e-liquid and found them next to useless.

Dare I say it, even the Tobacco company e-cigs with 48mg liquid are still not really enough.
Take the "Vype" - BAT stipulate unequivocally on their web site that the user will be able to vape 60% of the liquid, which is 11.2mg BEFORE vaping.

(ONE un-smoked full strength cigarette contains <10mg before smoking.)

Cartomizers containing 11.2mg of liquid is not the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes.
An "approved" dose of 20mg (as opposed to 48mg, say) is not even going to provide half a packs-worth to a full-strength smoker.

It is madness.

ECITA (the trade body) have stated on their website that vapers tend to use 2ml or more per day....they need to step in and sort these bureaucrats out...

1 cartomiser is not 20 fags. PLEASE...please...

 

[AttyPops]

You know? In a way, I pretty much ROFL at the flavor thing. There's part of me that says "Let them ban flavors!". Makes them feel better. Like they actually did something. Validated their otherwise meaningless existence. lol.

E-liquid uses candy flavoring after all. Freely available everywhere for candy, cakes, etc. DIY E-Liquid

I know that it's devastating to e-juice vendors and I'm not really saying I agree with any ban or that we shouldn't fight it. It's just that it is so freaking STUPID, ignorant, moronic, and ill-informed that it's laughable. LAUGHABLE! And so ineffective. These people really have zero clue. Zero. Just 100% manipulation/distortion/fear-mongering. They live off of it. Like vampires. So sad.

 

[AttyPops]

The real danger, of course, is banning nicotine base. Particularly internet sales. It's the only thing keeping the prices reasonable now.

Not just in the UK or EU, but everywhere.

 

[Razorback]

Welcome, from across the pond!

 

[ptheng]

Just needs more high level studies done...alot of cities in socal are passing ordinance against ecigg with flying colors recently. Its troubling to say the least.