New to Mechs

[Sptz]

Hi guys,

I just placed a pre-order for a Hades 26650 Copper Clone. This will be my first mod and I have to say I'm a little bit scared.

I have a couple of questions if you guys don't mind.

First of all, when in case of short and by short I mean, a simple coil short like a coil leg touching a bit of metal in a tank. Is that going to make the battery explode basically?! What happens then, how do you notice and solve it without any real damage?

Second, I read about not using the batteries when they're at 3.5V or below, what is the real life damage of that? Is it again, venting and/or exploding? Or is it just damaging it to the point of it not taking a charge efficiently and ,in worst case scenario, never again?

I'm thinking of buying a Nitecore i4, will that work with multiples as well as different types of batteries? Is there a controlling chip per channel?

And last, I'm debating over getting a MNKE 26650 or a Sony 26650. Is any of them safer than the other per say? I know the Sony is better for extreme sub-ohming due to it's 50A but that's not what I'm into. The lowest I'll go would be 0.5ohms but then again that wouldn't be an ADV I'm afraid, I'd probably hover around the 1ohm area.

So, in my case, would the MNKE serve me better?

Thanks and sorry for the possibly excruciating questions.

 

[anumber1]

Hi guys,

I just placed a pre-order for a Hades 26650 Copper Clone. This will be my first mod and I have to say I'm a little bit scared.

I have a couple of questions if you guys don't mind.

First of all, when in case of short and by short I mean, a simple coil short like a coil leg touching a bit of metal in a tank. Is that going to make the battery explode basically?! What happens then, how do you notice and solve it without damage.
.

Yes. A short is a short. Coil legs touching, blocks touching. A short is a short and you have no built in safeguards.

An ohm meter at a minimum is required. A decent dmm is best.


.

Second, I read about not using the batteries when they're at 3.5V or below, what is the real life damage of that? Is it again, venting and/or exploding? Or is it just damaging it to the point of it not taking a charge efficiently and ,in worst case scenario, never again?
.

A battery discharged below its specified maximum discharge voltage (too low) becomes unstable. Unstable means themal runaway which will result in venting. So yes, it is dangerous to run a battery too far .

 

[Sptz]

Thanks dude, I'll be sure to get a multimeter as I feel those are much more accurate.

How do you know you're running your battery too far? Does it really risk exploding? I thought it would just go down and down in voltage delivery and that was it.

 

[anumber1]

performance will really drop off most of the time.

I pull my batteries out at about 3.7 or so, when I notice a performance drop.

Safe maximum discharge will vary between brands and models. Best to find the manufacturer's specs for the particular battery you are using to find the maximum discharge voltage.

 

[Baditude]

If you get a digital multimeter, you can pull the batteries from you mod occassionally during use and measure their voltage level. Evaluate the vape quality as the battery goes from full charge to discharge; with experience you eventually learn when to pull the battery when the vape quality falls to a certain point.

Most likely an IMR battery will only vent hot gas when it goes into thermal runaway. However, dramatic explosion is a real possibility, if rare. Below is an AW 18490 IMR battery which exploded.

 

[Sptz]

Thanks for the help!

Although I'm sure for that to happen, something must have really GONE WRONG or the guy using it just went overboard.

If someone could answer me one last question I'd greatly appreciate it!

I'm thinking of buying a Nitecore i4, will that work with multiples as well as different types of batteries? Is there a controlling chip per channel? Also, with an advanced battery charger, probably like this one, is it ok to leave the batteries in there? Because supposedly it shuts down each channel as soon as the battery is charged.

Cheers

 

[Baditude]

Nitecore Intellicharger i4

"The Intellicharger i4 is a universal, automatic smart-charger compatible with almost all types of rechargeable batteries thus eliminating the need to own several chargers. The i4 is able to automatically identify Li-ion, Ni-MH and Ni-Cd rechargeable batteries and apply an appropriate charging mode (Constant Charge Current (CC), Constant Charge Voltage (CV) and Trickle Charge). Each of the i4’s four microcomputer-controlled charging slots is capable of monitoring and charging batteries independently. Additionally, yellow and blue power/charging status indicator lights could visibly indicate battery status and charging process. i4: The all-new highly advanced smart charger. It’s as simple as insert, detect, and charge.

Features:
· Capable of charging 4 batteries simultaneously
· Each of the four battery slots monitors and charges independently
· Automatically identifies Li-ion, Ni-MH and Ni-Cd rechargeable batteries
· Features three charging modes (CC, CV and Trickle Charge)
· Automatically detects battery status and selects the appropriate voltage and charge mode
· 3 Color LED displays charging progress for each battery
· Automatically stops charging when complete
· Features reverse polarity protection
· Designed for optimal heat dissipation
· Certified by both RoHS and CE"

 

[brickfollett]

I have the Nitecore I4 and really like it. Charge time is way faster than my old TR001. I would opt for the Sony battery with the higher amp limit regardless of what you vape or how you plan to vape. In the case of a short, a higher amp limit simply offers more protection than a battery with a lower amp limit. A well practiced hand and use of a multimeter should theoretically prevent this from happening anyway though.

When you put your brand new build on the multimeter, be sure to flick the coils and look for changes in resistance. If the resistance bounces around alot when flicking the coil, something is wrong. A variance of .02 ohms when flicking isn't a big deal though. My multimeter reads to an accuracy of +/- .02 ohms, rather than .01 ohms, so its probably in the middle somewhere.

Also check your ohms when everything is juiced up and put together. If you have your coil placement incorrect, the top cap of say an RDA could ground the connection and cause a short as well. Check, double check and triple check.

Once this is done, do a little bit of pulsing to make sure everything is lighting up okay. Shorts will be very evident very quickly, so short, rapid presses of your button are all that's required. You should have seen the shorts I was getting when I built this monster...



SS mesh doesn't always play nice. I could see the shorts within a fraction of a second when I was pulsing. Since they weren't dead shorts, it wasn't a problem, and I was pulsing with a half charged Sony VTC5, 30 amp battery. On the multimeter, the lowest ohms I witnessed when flicking the coils was .3 or so. Still regarded as safe.

Just be safe, be educated and have fun!

 

[Sptz]

How do you know it's shorting when on the mech? What happens physically?

 

[jpcwon]

How do you know it's shorting when on the mech? What happens physically?

Well if there's no kick or fuse in the mech then the battery will get VERY hot very quickly. I had this happen to me once and it was scary! I'm lucky that's all that happened and that the battery didn't vent...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Baditude]

How do you know it's shorting when on the mech? What happens physically?

You'll feel heat where you normally don't. Either the fire button, body of the mech, or the battery itself. The only place that is normal to feel heat is the atomizer. The entire device is part of the electrical circuit -- from the battery, battery contacts, mod body, the fire switch, the connector pin, and finally the atomizer attachment. A dead short is when there is no resistance and allows the battery to give all its got, resulting in rapid over-discharge of the battery and thermal runaway. The battery literally self-destructs in a core meltdown. Just like the battery I posted above.

 

[Sptz]

Ok. I'm very very careful and thoughtful when building coils etc, I always double check the legs etc and make sure nothing is touching anywhere, check the resistance very carefully.

I was just afraid that it would be the case of, I press fire and it takes 0.2 seconds to explode in my hand, since it's not that way and I at least have time to throw it like a baseball away from me then that's fine

 

[Baditude]

Ok. I'm very very careful and thoughtful when building coils etc, I always double check the legs etc and make sure nothing is touching anywhere, check the resistance very carefully.

I was just afraid that it would be the case of, I press fire and it takes 0.2 seconds to explode in my hand, since it's not that way and I at least have time to throw it like a baseball away from me then that's fine

I've had a battery vent dramatically in a mod before (an ICR protected battery). I've also witnessed IMR batteries vent. The process happens rather quickly (several seconds or longer).

 

[Sptz]

Sounds fairly safe then! Unless you're 100% careless

 

[Baditude]

Sounds fairly safe then! Unless you're 100% careless

Fairly safe? 100%?

Here's a pic of an AW 18490 IMR that vented (looks more like exploded to me). That's a 16.5 amp battery, which people say gives you plenty of safety margin against venting. Imagine that happening in your mechanical mod. Rare, but could happen. ANY battery can vent under the right conditions. Just practice due vigilence with safe battery habits, use the best batteries that you can get, and chances are this will never happen to you.

 

[Sptz]

What I mean by safe is, you will know something is wrong before it happens. It's within your common sense to either let it happen in your hand or somewhere else.

 

[brickfollett]

How do you know it's shorting when on the mech? What happens physically?

You can see the shorts. The coil should glow evenly and if you see hot spots (like a really bright ember on the coil) that's a minor short. It usually pulses away. It was extremely difficult on the provari because it would throw an error code before I could pulse the short away. And it threw the error codes in a fraction of a second, usually before I could see it

Certainly a testament to the incredible safety mechanisms built into the provari, but makes it hard to perform mesh builds. Not impossible though

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