New to Vaping. Need help with RDA Basics

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seraphe

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Hi

I'm a noob to ECF and to vaping. I've done some research about vaping and the equipment I'd need, but I haven't actually bought my first kit or used one yet.

Yet I'm really keen about the RDA where I get to customize the amount of heat and wattage by the way I set up. I've some questions and I'm still researching the forum for my answers but if someone can give me some pointers, I'd greatly appreciate your help.

1. Mechanical mods - How safe/dangerous are these, even if I used batteries with protection caps? Why do these exist when we have the regulated mods?

2. Coil - from what I understand, the bigger the wire gauge, the higher the resistance = more heat = less chance of burn out. Correct?

3. Conversion from 20's pack per day cigarette smoking - What should I expect? Vaper's cough?

Thanks.
 
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MasteroftheVape

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1. Mech mods are perfectly safe if you know what your doing. If you have a shorted coil even a protected battery can fail, but the chance of that is probably similar to a battery venting out from some other internal failure.

Mechanical mods exist because some people like them and want to buy them. Some people like the simplicity, no electronics so less that can break.

2. The bigger the gauge = smaller wire diameter = more resistance. The larger diameter of lower gauge wire is more resilient for obvious reasons.

3. Everyone responds differently when they put down the smokes. I would expect a month or two of smokers cough, and vapor tongue. If it happens then you know what to expect, if it doesn't then good for you.
 

AXIOM_1

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    Welcome !

    1.) Mechanical mods are not safe in the hands of people who either lack electrical knowledge or are new vapers. I would totally advise you to get into regulated mods FIRST....... Regulated mods can do everything a mechanical mod can do and do it much safer. Mechanical mods are left over from the days of old before circuit boards were installed into mods.... Mechanical mods are mostly for cloud chuckers... You can chuck clouds every bit as good with a regulated mod.

    2.) Yes, the bigger the wire gauge then the more resistance the coil will possess. The part that you have incorrect is the "less chance of burnout" statement.

    3.) Don't know what you mean by vaper's cough but I can almost assure you that smoking causes worse coughing than any vape device. Yes, vaping can cause a person to cough every so often when inhaling but this is not all the time and only happens on occasion and rarely for most folks. I rarely cough from vaping.
     
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    edyle

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    Hi

    I'm a noob to ECF and to vaping. I've done some research about vaping and the equipment I'd need, but I haven't actually bought my first kit or used one yet.

    Yet I'm really keen about the RDA where I get to customize the amount of heat and wattage by the way I set up. I've some questions and I'm still researching the forum for my answers but if someone can give me some pointers, I'd greatly appreciate your help.

    1. Mechanical mods - How safe/dangerous are these, even if I used batteries with protection caps? Why do these exist when we have the regulated mods?

    2. Coil - from what I understand, the bigger the wire gauge, the higher the resistance = more heat = less chance of burn out. Correct?

    3. Conversion from 20's pack per day cigarette smoking - What should I expect? Vaper's cough?

    Thanks.

    1: the safely of a mechanical mod is mostly dependent on the knowledge of the user.
    'protected' batteries are really the unsafe chemistry batteries; that is why they are sold with protection circuitry otherwise the probably wouldn't be allowed on the market.
    the 'unprotected' IMR batteries are the safer chemistry batteries and are the ones recommend for vaping.
    The existed before regulated mods.

    Nowadays with more high powered regulated mods, especially mods using 2 and 3 batteries, there is less demand for mechanical mods. The do however serve as a reliable backup.
    Adjustable 510 centerpin is quite standard on mechanical mods, whereas on regulated mods, fixed centerpin is probably still the most common arrangement and that centerpin ends up being the first point of failure.
    Some regulated mods come with spring loaded centerpin.

    -oh- there are a couple noteably dangerous mods if put in the hands of unsuspecting new users:
    (a) the fake-hybrid mods like the SMPL which has no centerpin.
    (b) the metal cherrybomber with negative body, and switched-negative

    2: the thicker the wire the lower the resistance per inch
    with wire gauge, the higher number gauge is the thinner wire.
    thicker wire is harder to burnt out of course.
    higher resistance needs higher voltage, generally speaking.

    3: if you smoked for decades then switched suddenly to vaping, you'll cough a lot the first few weeks as the cilia in your lungs get unstuck from the tar buildup and start flicking stuff upwards to clean out the lungs
     

    MasteroftheVape

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    Vapers cough= when I smoked, I never had a "smokers cough" because constantly smoking keeps the cilia in the lungs too paralyzed/weak to bring all the nasty stuff up that was in my lungs. When I started vaping my cilia started to recover and I started to get a "vapers cough". The coughing isn't caused by vaping, but is the body getting all the stuff out from when I was smoking prior.
     

    Alien Traveler

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    Jul 3, 2014
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    Hi

    I'm a noob to ECF and to vaping. I've done some research about vaping and the equipment I'd need, but I haven't actually bought my first kit or used one yet.

    Yet I'm really keen about the RDA where I get to customize the amount of heat and wattage by the way I set up. I've some questions and I'm still researching the forum for my answers but if someone can give me some pointers, I'd greatly appreciate your help.

    1. Mechanical mods - How safe/dangerous are these, even if I used batteries with protection caps? Why do these exist when we have the regulated mods?

    2. Coil - from what I understand, the bigger the wire gauge, the higher the resistance = more heat = less chance of burn out. Correct?

    3. Conversion from 20's pack per day cigarette smoking - What should I expect? Vaper's cough?

    Thanks.
    Forget mech mods for now. Not safe.
    Are you sure you want RDA, not RTA (RBA)? RDA is dripping atomizer, you need to add e-liquid every few puffs. RTA - tank, it may lasts you the whole day (or half a day...).
     

    AXIOM_1

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  • Jul 6, 2015
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    Vapers cough= when I smoked, I never had a "smokers cough" because constantly smoking keeps the cilia in the lungs too paralyzed/weak to bring all the nasty stuff up that was in my lungs. When I started vaping my cilia started to recover and I started to get a "vapers cough". The coughing isn't caused by vaping, but is the body getting all the stuff out from when I was smoking prior.

    ^^^ correct .... Yes when a person FIRST quits smoking then yes a person will cough up phlegm no matter if they vape or not...It's just the body's way of getting rid of stuff that doesn't belong in the lungs to begin with. I didn't have this problem because I came to vaping from tobacco chewing..... However, i smoked for many years prior to chewing and when I quit I also hacked up a bunch of junk.... I read the OP's question too fast and assumed he was asking if vaping causes a person to cough. Yes, after your lungs get cleared of junk then vaping can cause a cough every so often but it rarely happens.
     

    seraphe

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    Thanks for the welcome.

    1. Mech mods are perfectly safe if you know what your doing. If you have a shorted coil even a protected battery can fail, but the chance of that is probably similar to a battery venting out from some other internal failure.

    Mechanical mods exist because some people like them and want to buy them. Some people like the simplicity, no electronics so less that can break.

    2. The bigger the gauge = smaller wire diameter = more resistance. The larger diameter of lower gauge wire is more resilient for obvious reasons.

    3. Everyone responds differently when they put down the smokes. I would expect a month or two of smokers cough, and vapor tongue. If it happens then you know what to expect, if it doesn't then good for you.

    I'm just paranoid about the melting of batteries. Does having the protection caps help to prevent this?

    Welcome !

    1.) Mechanical mods are not safe in the hands of people who either lack electrical knowledge or are new vapers. I would totally advise you to get into regulated mods FIRST....... Regulated mods can do everything a mechanical mod can do and do it much safer. Mechanical mods are left over from the days of old before circuit boards were installed into mods.... Mechanical mods are mostly for cloud chuckers... You can chuck clouds every bit as good with a regulated mod.

    2.) Yes, the bigger the wire gauge then the more resistance the coil will possess. The part that you have incorrect is the "less chance of burnout" statement.

    3.) Don't know what you mean by vaper's cough but I can almost assure you that smoking causes worse coughing than any vape device. Yes, vaping can cause a person to cough every so often when inhaling but this is not all the time and only happens on occasion and rarely for most folks. I rarely cough from vaping.

    I'm still keen to experiment on a mechanical mod. I'd never learn to use one if I don't. Wish me luck.

    Hello, welcome to the forum.

    In response to the mech mod question: To me it is more of an art form and if you know what you're doing it is safe. To be able to build a well performing coil on a mech mod is a challenge.

    That's where I'm trying to learn, the different gauges, coiling styles and number of coils in a RDA with mech mod.

    My first possible set ups:

    1) A1 wire 28g (0.8 ohm)
    2) Clapton coils 26/32g (0.4 OHM)

    I'm probably going to try these on single/double coils on a RDA/Mech with 3.7V battery. Any danger here?
     

    seraphe

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    Forget mech mods for now. Not safe.
    Are you sure you want RDA, not RTA (RBA)? RDA is dripping atomizer, you need to add e-liquid every few puffs. RTA - tank, it may lasts you the whole day (or half a day...).

    I'm considering both, actually. RDA is for the small size while RTA is for the larger capacity.

    Btw, is the Kayfun Lite considered a RTA?
     

    AXIOM_1

    Vaping Master
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  • Jul 6, 2015
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    Thanks for the welcome.



    I'm just paranoid about the melting of batteries. Does having the protection caps help to prevent this?



    I'm still keen to experiment on a mechanical mod. I'd never learn to use one if I don't. Wish me luck.



    That's where I'm trying to learn, the different gauges, coiling styles and number of coils in a RDA with mech mod.

    My first possible set ups:

    1) A1 wire 28g (0.8 ohm)
    2) Clapton coils 26/32g (0.4 OHM)

    I'm probably going to try these on single/double coils on a RDA/Mech with 3.7V battery. Any danger here?


    Why do you need a mech mod in order to build coils? You can do everything in regards to building coils with a regulated mod as you can with a primitive mech mod.
     
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    MasteroftheVape

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    A .4 ohm coil on a mech is about 40 watts with a 10 amp battery draw, totally safe. However if you build the coil wrong, or it shorts on the build deck, you could be in trouble.

    My wife used to use a mech that i made her builds for until one day she told me her mod was busted. She dropped it and it wouldn't work anymore.
    When she dropped it the coil must have moved to short over the build deck, then when she tried to use it then entire tank (legit russian 91%) was welded into a solid block of metal. There was no unscrewing it. I destroyed it trying to take it apart. The Batteries protection worked thankfully and she didn't loose a hand, but I upgraded her to a vw device after that.
     

    AXIOM_1

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    A .4 ohm coil on a mech is about 40 watts with a 10 amp battery draw, totally safe. However if you build the coil wrong, or it shorts on the build deck, you could be in trouble.

    My wife used to use a mech that i made her builds for until one day she told me her mod was busted. She dropped it and it wouldn't work anymore.
    When she dropped it the coil must have moved to short over the build deck, then when she tried to use it then entire tank (legit russian 91%) was welded into a solid block of metal. There was no unscrewing it. I destroyed it trying to take it apart. The Batteries protection worked thankfully and she didn't loose a hand, but I upgraded her to a vw device after that.

    Yeah I know what you mean........ I got a defective Kennedy RDA clone and the cap had a defect in it that caused it to touch the coils periodically and short them out. The entire RDA burst into flames once when I was toking on it. Had I not been using the RDA on a vw mod then I would probably have gotten seriously hurt.
     

    edyle

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    I'm considering both, actually. RDA is for the small size while RTA is for the larger capacity.

    Btw, is the Kayfun Lite considered a RTA?

    yes the kayfun lite is an rta, but I wouldn't recommend it as a first tank nowadays.
    the top of the chimney/airtube does not affix to the topcap, it just kind of hopefully plugs in with a seal, and if it doesn't seal properly you get total leakout; i'd sooner recommend the lemo, but I don't actually have a lemo;

    but nowadays there's the subtank to consider; you can use prefab coils or use the rebuildable coil head.
     

    Susan~S

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    Hello and welcome to the forum @seraphe. Glad to have you here!:)

    +1 on the regulated option.

    With a mechanical mod the only way to "fine tune" your vape is to build a new coil. With a high vv/vw regulated mod (and its buck/boost circuitry) you can "fine tune" with a push of a button. On a mechanical mod your voltage drops as you vape, with a regulated mod this does not happen. Your first hit is just as good as your last hit.

    A high vv/vw mod is a lot more versatile than a mechanical mod (not to mention safer, less upkeep, etc). The beauty of a high vv/vw mod is that you don't have to build low sub-ohm coils to get a great vape. In fact, building low sub-ohm works against you. Higher ohm coils use more wire which means more surface area to vaporize juice. This increases both heat and vapor production.

    With a mechanical mod you increase the warmth of your coil by building lower ohm coils. However, the electronics in a regulated mod boosts the power coming from the battery so the ohms of the coil no longer control the warmth.
    =========

    If you are going to go the Mech Mod/Rebuildable route you are going to want a safe-chemistry, high-drain battery with a high CDR. How high? I'll quote @tj99959 as this is the practice I follow with regards to amps & headroom.

    "When considering how low you can build you need to give yourself some headroom. I try to never exceed 50% of the CDR (continuous discharge rating) of a fully charged battery (4.2v). So with a 20A battery, that would be 10A. This Ohm's Law Calculator tells me that a .4 ohm build is as low as I would want to use.

    The reason that I place a 50% limit is because as a battery ages the mAh of the battery degrades, as the mAh degrades so does the batteries c rating (amp limit). So down the road, a 20A battery may only be a 10A battery."

    I highly recommend you spend some time with @Baditude & @Mooch (two of our resident battery/safety experts) and visit their blogs. You are now 100% in control of your own safety (and others around you). Make sure you purchase an ohm reader and a voltmeter or DMM so you can measure your builds, check for shorts and measure the remaining charge on your batteries.

    Here are links to some of Mooch's blogs:
    * No matter what is printed on the battery wrapper: There are no 18650 batteries with a genuine rating over 30A!
    * Links to all his battery tests to date: List of My Battery Tests | Mooch's Blog
    * Picking a Safe Battery to Vape With: Table of 18650 Battery Safety Grades | Mooch's Blog

    Baditude's Blog - Table of Contents: The blogs that address battery safety, Ohm's Law, CDR (continuous discharge rating/Amps) and how they all work together are detailed below:

    BATTERIES

    Battery Basics for Mods - The Ultimate Battery Guide
    * Another essential read to understand which batteries are safe to use in mechanical and regulated mods. Includes a frequently updated list of recommended safe-chemistry, high-drain batteries with their specifications.

    Purple Efest Batteries not as Advertised
    * A cautionary blog that reveals that the purple Efest batteries may not have the specifications advertised. Also includes a commentary on "continuous discharge ratings" vs "pulse discharge ratings" of battery specs.

    OHM'S LAW

    Ohm's Law Explained for Vapers
    * My attempt at explaining Ohm's Law in layman terms and how it relates to vaping.

    Explain it to the Dumb Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations
    * As simple as it is to use, some people have a tough time grasping the concept. Warning: Includes graphic photos of mod explosions.

    BATTERIES - WHERE TO BUY

    Only buy batteries from a reputable supplier (not ebay or Amazon) as there are many counterfeit batteries being sold. Here are several reputable battery suppliers in the US.

    * RTD Vapor
    * Illumination Supply
    * Lighthound
    * Orbtronics
     
    Last edited:

    IMFire3605

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    May 3, 2013
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    Hi

    I'm a noob to ECF and to vaping. I've done some research about vaping and the equipment I'd need, but I haven't actually bought my first kit or used one yet.

    Yet I'm really keen about the RDA where I get to customize the amount of heat and wattage by the way I set up. I've some questions and I'm still researching the forum for my answers but if someone can give me some pointers, I'd greatly appreciate your help.

    1. Mechanical mods - How safe/dangerous are these, even if I used batteries with protection caps? Why do these exist when we have the regulated mods?

    2. Coil - from what I understand, the bigger the wire gauge, the higher the resistance = more heat = less chance of burn out. Correct?

    3. Conversion from 20's pack per day cigarette smoking - What should I expect? Vaper's cough?

    Thanks.


    1) Mechanical mods are nothing more than a glorified flashlight tube in essence. No electronics, battery, two contacts, resistor in the rda coil, a mechanical switch, and most a locking mechanism on the switch to prevent accidental firing. With current regulated engineering, most that own or buy a mech anymore are hobbyists, collectors, or just like mechanicals over regulated mods. Mechanical being so simple in design, just a little TLC maintenance, they are simple to trouble shoot or repair.

    Though on the more advanced side, they need a lot of technical knowledge, how a basic circuit works, ohms law, battery safety, and how to balance their potential output at the coil. Before regulated mods caught up engineering wise, about a year ago to cloud competition, chuck clouds, or build a setup that just oozed juicy flavor, a mech and an RDA was really the only option.

    2) As stated above, yes, higher the AWG (American Wire Gauge Standard) number, ie 30awg, the thinner the wire and more resistance per inch in the wire, where 24awg, being thicker, electricity moves through it easier, less resistance and more surface to wick contact, but takes more power to heat up, yet more wire to wick contact in one area equals more liquid to vaporize at once, produces more vapor, more flavor, and more throat hit as you could potentially vaporize almost 6x the amount of liquid at once compared to a beginner device like the Kanger Protank. Most RDA builders balance wire resistance, wire gauge, air flow, wicking, with what they want cloud and flavor output to be with wire durability, heat up and cool down. Fast heat up, decent vapor, good flavor - 28awg higher resistance in a narrow 18 or 19mm rda, to an extreme cloud chaser, 24awg low resistance in a wider rda with massive air flow and wide mouth piece top cap. The first heats up and cools down quickly so doesn't cook and boil liquid yet risk snapping a coil each rewick, where the second example, the coil takes about a second or two to reach top temperature and stays hot long after power has stopped being supplied so carmelizes liquid being pulled into the coil that doesn't get vaporized, yet the coil can last weeks even months due to it is so strong.

    3) Pack a day full flavor - Nic level I'd suggest on a basic starter kit (MVP 2.0 and a Nautilus for example) would be 12mg to 18mg, yet when taking into account #2, on an advanced higher output device that can vaporize 2x,3x, even up to 6x the amount of liquid at once, you'd be in the range of 2, 3, up to 6mg Nic juice to keep from causing Nic overdose and razor dart throat hit. Like stated above, a lot of vaping is subjective to each vaper or potential vaper, this includes transition, detox, and how your body will react while purging itself clean. Some have a morning smoker's cough to clear out ejected garbage from cigs out of the lungs, anxiety, a mildly short temper, the list is long and this period could last a week to even 6months down the road getting less drastic at the end. Just have to ride it out like with any other stop smoking regimen, drink lots of water, juices, and green teas, decrease caffeine intake the first week or two, nor get let down if you get such a bad urge to have smoke while vaping, smoke 1/3 to 1/2 a cig if you have to waking up, going to bed, high stress situations, break at work, after eating, start with the vape first, but still strong urge have the 1/3 to 1/2 cig to kill the urge, eventually you'll just naturally put your last cig down due to taste and revulsion.

    Good luck, and welcome to the forums.
     

    seraphe

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    Wow. That's some good albeit intensive knowledge, esp for a batt and vape noob like me.

    Here's the advertised specs of the 18650 batts I've gotten:

    Nominal Capacity: 3350 mAh
    Typical Capacity: 3250 mAh
    Minimum Capacity: 3250 mAh
    Nominal Voltage 3.6 V
    Internal Impednce 32mohm
    Discharge Cut-off Voltage 3.0 V
    Max Charge Voltage 4.20±0.05 V
    Standard Charge Current 0.52 A
    Rapid Charge Current 1.3 A
    Standard Discharge Current 1.5 A or more
    Rapid Discharge Current 1.9 A or more
    Max Pulse discharge Current less than 6 A

    From what I gathered from reading the above, the lowest resistance I can go is 0.4 ohm, right? If I have 2 x 0.4 ohm (parallel) coils, that'd raise the resistance to 0.8 ohm?
     
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