Nic absorbtion through the skin

[dave8944]

I know nicotine is toxic, but how much juice is toxic? I think part of the reason I'm liking this stuff is that I'm absorbing some of the juice through my skin everytime I load it.

From the information out there I can only figure there is about 1 cig's worth of nicotine per drop of liquid (I'm using 24mg liquid). I don't notice any major effects if I absorb some residue through my fingertips after loading my cart. However, I spilled a drop on my glass table and put it on the skin of my inner wrist for better absorption. I definitely got a reaction from that! I didn't feel ill like I had smoked too many cigarettes, or even like the head rush you get if you haven't smoked for a while. Instead, I felt flush, dizzy and little disoriented. I did not get a headach or other signs of toxic absorption I have read about, but I did feel a definite psychotropic effect I don't get from smoking. I've heard that free-basing nicotine would get you very high and wonder (worry) that absorbing it through the skin might have similar effects.

It also seems that a lot of nicotine must be lost in loading and in the vaporization process if the liquid by itself gives more effect than smoking the same amount of liquid (smoking a drops worth of liquid takes very little time).

 

[Nuck]

I've spilled a ton of times over the last 6 months and I have yet to feel the slightest effect. I used to be paranoid, now I don't even bother wiping it off unless it's a large amount.

 

[four2109]

All I notice is an itchy, uncomfortable sensation on my hands.

 

[wv2win]

Maybe you should stop using liquid.

 

[dave8944]

Like I said, it only happens when I put on my inner wrist area for better absorption. After reading some more posts I have found it is a sign of nicotine overdose, so maybe it's not a good idea. Still, it leaves me wondering how much of the nicotine we really absorb through the vapor in a quick puff. If one drop can do that to me through the skin and nothing like that happens when puffing constantly on the thing, there must be a BIG difference in the absorption of the nicotine from the two processes.

 

[wv2win]

Check out this thread. From this and the definitive New Zealand study, nicotine from vaping is much less than analogs. You can always wear gloves if you are that worried:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...5034-nicotine-absorbtion-vaping-research.html

 

[dave8944]

You misunderstand me, as I like the effect. I'm only worried that our nanny-state overloards will have another reason to ban liquid nicotine if anyone can just rub in on their skin to get really high. That's why I mentioned free-base nicotine in my original post. I have read that if you could free-base nicotine it would have an extreme psychoactive effect (different than smoking). I'm wondering if rubbing it in a place where the veins are close to the surface of the skin (as I did) has a qualitatively different effect like free-basing, or if what I felt was simply due to absorbing more total nicotine.

Is the effect and toxicity of nicotine simply function of the total amount absorbed by the body, or is there a distinction between the amount we absorb and the amount we get into our bloodstream? That is, maybe you could get a more psychoactive effect by getting more into your bloodstream without increasing the total amount of nicotine to toxic levels.

So, perhaps I can refine my orignal question. Is a single drop of liquid more toxic if absorbed in some other way than if it were vaporized?

 

[Treece]

I'm only worried that our nanny-state overloards will have another reason to ban liquid nicotine if anyone can just rub in on their skin to get really high.

It's people who do things like purposely rubbing liquid nicotine on their skin "to get really high" that make people think nanny-state overlords are necessary. Don't be foolish. Don't rub nicotine liquid on your skin. Also, don't take a bath with a toaster. Don't drink bleach. Don't stick your hand in a moving blender. Etc.

 

[wv2win]

Tag on hairdry: Don't use while in the shower!!!!!

 

[effigi]

And what about this gasoline in my sippy-cup?

 

[Treece]

Very good!

And don't forget, kids: Open the sliding glass door before passing through it!

 

[dave8944]

It's people who do things like purposely rubbing liquid nicotine on their skin "to get really high" that make people think nanny-state overlords are necessary. Don't be foolish. Don't rub nicotine liquid on your skin. Also, don't take a bath with a toaster. Don't drink bleach. Don't stick your hand in a moving blender. Etc.

I heard about liquid nicotine long before I heard of vaping and simply assumed skin absorption would be the delivery system. I hesitated even mentioning it, but if I'm thinking of it others will as well. Shutting down the conversation in such an absolutist's way does little to advance understanding. I'm an old man and have smoked for decades so my fascination with a "buzz" has long since passed. The reason for my post and my "worry" about such effects was what the least common denominator in our society might end up doing.

I'm still left wondering if simply getting a strong reaction indicates an overdose of nicotine or that perhaps skin absorption yeilds a qualitatively different reaction. Can the same amount of nicotine in x-quantity of liquid be perfectly fine for consumption one way but toxic another?

 

[happily]

nicotine patches deliver up to 21mg of nic per 24 hours................through the skin. It generally causes a rash also.


The answer would be yes different ways of consumption produce different results

 

[Treece]

Can the same amount of nicotine in x-quantity of liquid be perfectly fine for consumption one way but toxic another?


Certainly the method of consumption matters. You wouldn't, for example, want to eat cigarettes. A few would make you very, very ill--and would be enough to kill a toddler. In fact, toddlers show up in emergency rooms every year as a result of eating cigarettes.

 

[TropicalBob]

Your questions are valid, Dave, and if you read way back on this forum you'll find that such experiments were done. One veteran here smeared e-liquid on his eyelids -- without effect or consequence. I've tried transdermal absorption of e-liquid (long ago) and didn't even get a red spot. I've tried other crazy alternative uses of the nicotine liquid. I wouldn't do any again.

And I do not in any way advise others to experiment this way. After my experimental days were over, I settled down to commercial cartridges and e-liquid only, no DIY or alternative delivery routes.

But let me add this: Curiosity and questioning unexpected results are signs of bright minds, not idiots. Society moves forward because some think outside the box and see possibilities beyond the given, beyond the specifications and rules. Bless you for being one of those. The world will need a lot of them if we're to pull out of the present tailspin. Thanks for posting your observation and questions, Dave.

 

[Corki2]

I agree with TropicalBob and I have also wondered what the consequences could be since I can't seem to keep it off my hands either. I try not to touch it and I wash my hands a lot more than I did before I started vaping. I also try not to touch anything my family might touch if I have juice on my hands because none of them smoke or vape and I always worry that they might experience some ill effects if they get it on themselves. I believe that we are absorbing some through our fingers, but not enough to amount to harm thanks to the toughness of the finger skin and tolerance to nicotine. Wrist, etc may be a different matter, but I'm not going to purposely apply it in order to test it. Thanks for bringing it up Dave.

 

[Antebellum]

I personally wonder if we aren't getting some over-cautious warnings about nicotine. Of course, pure nicotine will zap you deader than a dodo, but smoke juice is anything but pure nicotine. It's up to about 3 to 4% of the volume of the juice, dissolved in a carrier. If you spill some, or rub it on your eyelashes, or soak a bandage and press it against your abdomen for a day, it's still such a weak concentration that it would be hard for it to do harm.

Common advice is that about something like 60/mg of pure nicotine ingested - or dramatically, one drop(!) on the skin, can kill you right there. Kerplunk! Pushing up daisies.

But who in their right mind is playing with pure nicotine?

So even if we are talking about 36 mg/ml or 48 mg/ml, we are still talking about a highly dilute mixture.

I vaped a cart of 48 mg/ml unflavored this morning, and I haven't started growing a second head yet. I also touched my tongue to the top of the cart to see what unflavored tasted like. (Still sort of sweet, to my surprise.)

So our friends in China have decided that 50 mg a day is bad for some people. No kidding. If we take the recent research and say that 10% of the nicotine in smoke juice is absorbed and used in the body, then it would take vaping five full 1 ml carts (ie, 801) in one day to reach 50 mg. It would also take dripping 5 ml of 50 mg/ml.

 

[Kate51]

Check out this thread. From this and the definitive New Zealand study, nicotine from vaping is much less than analogs. You can always wear gloves if you are that worried:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...5034-nicotine-absorbtion-vaping-research.html

Anyone who says they "like" the effect from what they're doing (skin absorbtion? OMG) definitely NEEDS TO READ THESE POSTS.

 

[Kate51]

i personally wonder if we aren't getting some over-cautious warnings about nicotine. Of course, pure nicotine will zap you deader than a dodo, but smoke juice is anything but pure nicotine. It's up to about 3 to 4% of the volume of the juice, dissolved in a carrier. If you spill some, or rub it on your eyelashes, or soak a bandage and press it against your abdomen for a day, it's still such a weak concentration that it would be hard for it to do harm.

Common advice is that about something like 60/mg of pure nicotine ingested - or dramatically, one drop(!) on the skin, can kill you right there. Kerplunk! Pushing up daisies.

But who in their right mind is playing with pure nicotine?

So even if we are talking about 36 mg/ml or 48 mg/ml, we are still talking about a highly dilute mixture.

I vaped a cart of 48 mg/ml unflavored this morning, and i haven't started growing a second head yet. I also touched my tongue to the top of the cart to see what unflavored tasted like. (still sort of sweet, to my surprise.)

so our friends in china have decided that 50 mg a day is bad for some people. No kidding. If we take the recent research and say that 10% of the nicotine in smoke juice is absorbed and used in the body, then it would take vaping five full 1 ml carts (ie, 801) in one day to reach 50 mg. It would also take dripping 5 ml of 50 mg/ml.

I'm not a chemist or a doctor, of course, but what's the flaw in this logic?

the flaw in this logic is that you are not a chemist or doctor, if you were you would not even think of saying what you just did

 

[Kate51]

Please, don't anyone take for granted that e-cigs are harmless
What nicotine is not, a carcinogen.
It is toxic, poisonous if ingested in high levels....40-60 mgs will kill you, your pets, your kids. That's about a teaspoonful of 24mg/ml juice, less than that if your nic density is higher. Please be careful about storing juice, and spills on your skin should be washed immediately. Do not expose your children to it, even on just your fingers. Or let your pet lick your skin after contact with the juice. WASH it off. It will absorb through your skin. It kills bugs!
Nicotine is highly addictive: it is rightly unknown if the substance itself is addictive OR if it is added to any other substance makes that the addiction. This is a question long been posed by cigarette smokers, is it the nicotine or is it other things in the cigarette we are addicted to. Either way, the nicotine-laden neuron receptors in your brain will make you feel euphoric when nicotine is in the blood system. Overdosing will make you feel giddy, or increased heart rate, sluggish, "out-of-focus", stomach cramps or nausea....stop ingesting immediately, symptoms will subside unless other physical conditions intensify danger. Cut down the level you have been using.
Nicotine is known to raise blood pressure levels, by constricting blood vessels. Smokers always have known the red blotches on a smoker's face are capillaries under the skins' surface that become occluded, blood does not flow easily through the tiny things, clotting can take place, making it look like your nose is red or purple, under-eye black circles, and across the cheeks and general "ruddy" looking skin. My "mask" is nearly gone!, but I always looked tired because of bloated stagnated circulation in my skin. But do watch your blood pressure, especially if you are pre-disposed to high BP, heart problems, lung problems, poor circulation (diabetes) PAD, COPD,etc.. This is not a joke, e-cigs are from 100 - 1000 times safer than cigarettes, but don't fool yourself into being complacent about the nicotine. And make sure others know it as well. Ignorance about this is surely not blissful.

Disclaimer:This information is from my research, so please take that into account.