Nicotine OD, or something else?

[bluedove3]

Hello!
My hubby got his first e-cig just a few weeks ago...(an E9 from E-cig.com) He ordered the highest nic in his initial cartomizers (36mg) and after a few puffs he became nauseated and got a headache and vomited. We concluded that the nicotine was too high for him.

Today we got in some 16mg cartomizers and he tried those... about 4 puffs and he started feeling ill again. He smokes a pack or a bit more a day in "analogs" he rolls himself with filtered tubes and pipe tobacco. So it's surprising that he's getting sick on the higher mg of nic, he needed the highest available nic therapy patch when he couldn't smoke because he stayed with me in the hospital.

So could this be something else? He wants to know if the base makes a difference in nic absorbtion... Like if PG gives better "throat hit", is that because it is a more efficient in nicotine delivery? Could a sensitivity to PG result in symptoms like these?

Also, what would be the quickest, easiest, cheapest way to dilute these too concentrated solutions so he can safely vape them? Is there anyway to find the kind of PG or VG that is safe to vape locally, in a small town? Or should we just order some nic-free premixed ejuice since we're new at this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Vidi]

He may be one of the rare people who are allergic to PG or VG. I say that because I can't imagine it being a Nic OD with only a few puffs.

that being said take a look at the Understanding your symptoms post in the ECF library.

The quickest way to dilute it would be to order some 0 nic of the same flavor and mix to a more appropriate level of nic. Tasty Vapor sells Doublers of their flavors which allow this for their flavors. I believe other vendors also have 0 nic versions of their flavors, but Tasty Vapor charges less for the 0 nic than their normal nic juice.

Hope that helps

 

[SimpleSins]

You could try posting his symptoms in the health forum and maybe somebody there could better tell you. Offhand it sounds like overdosing on the nicotine, but I don't even pretend to be an expert beyond what I've read.

Depending on small your town, you can get the ingredients. Drug stores and Walmart often carry the vegetable glycerin (VG), usually in with the Band-Aids and peroxide or you can order it on line. If you've got an Orschelin's or Farm & Home, you can the PG there (used for ketosis in dairy cattle), but it usually comes in a gallon jug so you can do a whole heckuva lot of diluting.

 

[TrashcanCandy]

I really don't think it's a nic overdose if he smoked that strong of analogs. I vape 36mg, and I didn't have that kind of reaction... I would assume it is either a reaction to the PG or possibly something in the flavoring...PG would be the most likely conclusion, IMO. As a previous poster said, after only a few puffs, it is unlikely that this was a nic overdose, especially since he smoked such strong analogs and had the same sort of reaction to a much lower nic strength.

Try some VG liquid in the same mg and see how that works out. Vapor4Life.com has a limited selection of VG cartos right now, but there are quite a few suppliers who carry blank cartomizers and VG liquids.
Blank cartomizers are really quite easy to fill...just pop off the plastic endcap (there is often a clear silicone o-ring inside that you need to remove as well...if you have a hard plastic endcap then look for one of those...if you have a soft rubber endcap, then there probably isn't one). I use a safety pin to pop the endcap off. Then just drip around the wall of the carto so that the drops run down onto the filler while rotating the carto, as if you're pouring a glass of beer and rotating the glass. Drip until the liquid looks like it is no longer being absorbed into the filler. Then check to make sure there isn't any excess liquid in the center of the carto (hold it up to a light source and look through the hole). If there is excess, gently blow through the mouth end either into a cartomizer condom (the little silicone sleeves that come on either end of a new carto) so you can use the extra juice next time you fill, or onto a napkin or tissue if you're not conserving. Always be sure to wipe off the battery end so you don't gunk up a battery.
It sounds like a lot of work and like it would be time-consuming, but I swear it is super easy.

 

[TrashcanCandy]

In fact, upon taking a look around e-cig.com, I see that they have some really inexpensive blank cartomizers and a really decent variety of flavors in different nic strengths of e-liquid where you can choose a VG base. I'd say if you are happy with their customer service and the previous flavor you chose, go ahead and order the VG liquid and some blanks from them to try.

I'm actually really glad that I looked at their e-liquids...I've been looking for a 36mg Lychee flavor ("Litchi" on their site) since Totally Wicked is discontinuing their Decadent Vapour line...finally found one now. I'll have to try theirs.

 

[SimpleSins]

I really don't think it's a nic overdose if he smoked that strong of analogs. I vape 36mg, and I didn't have that kind of reaction... I would assume it is either a reaction to the PG or possibly something in the flavoring...PG would be the most likely conclusion, IMO. As a previous poster said, after only a few puffs, it is unlikely that this was a nic overdose, especially since he smoked such strong analogs and had the same sort of reaction to a much lower nic strength.

What we smoked in cigarette does not necessarily correlate with what we vape. We vape differently than we smoke, the way the nicotine is absorbed is different. Somewhere there is a posting regarding the symptoms of nicotine overdose. This is one of the stickies at the top and it's pretty good to read (as are all of them).

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nverting-e-cigs-regards-nicotine-content.html

 

[StormFinch]

Unfortunately, e-cig.com is the company that is adding ...... and rimonabant (weight loss and addiction treatment drug said to cause instances of depression and suicide.) to some of their juices. If they are willing to do that, I'm not sure I'd trust the ingredients in any of their other liquids either. My suggestion would be to find an ECF approved supplier here on the forums and order both PG and VG liquids along with one that has no flavorings. That should probably tell you exactly what your husband is reacting to.

 

[TrashcanCandy]

What we smoked in cigarette does not necessarily correlate with what we vape. We vape differently than we smoke, the way the nicotine is absorbed is different. Somewhere there is a posting regarding the symptoms of nicotine overdose. This is one of the stickies at the top and it's pretty good to read (as are all of them).

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nverting-e-cigs-regards-nicotine-content.html

I realize this, hon. That is why I made no definite statements, but said things like "IMO" and "unlikely." What I said was mostly based on the fact that he had the same reaction even when the nic strength was significantly reduced.

 

[TrashcanCandy]

Unfortunately, e-cig.com is the company that is adding ...... and rimonabant (weight loss and addiction treatment drug said to cause instances of depression and suicide.) to some of their juices. If they are willing to do that, I'm not sure I'd trust the ingredients in any of their other liquids either. My suggestion would be to find an ECF approved supplier here on the forums and order both PG and VG liquids along with one that has no flavorings. That should probably tell you exactly what your husband is reacting to.

Oh wow...that's good to know...guess I'll keep looking for my Lychee in 36mg.
OP, this is solid advice...I second it.

 

[Kate51]

bluedove3, you can very quickly run to Walmart Pharmacy or your grocer may also have any good USP (food Grade) Vegetable Glycerine to dilute the juice. I would start at about 50%, just from what you described: those are classic symptoms of over dosing. If you use VG to dilute it, you'll also be cutting the PG by ½, as well, which will make great vapor. That should also be telling if he is PG sensitive, it will not be so drying, but that would surprise me at this stage of his use. If the juice seems too thick, a tiny bit of distilled water can also be added, but not usually necessary.
As he seems to be able to better cope with 18 mg/ml, (½ of 36mg/ml juice), you can go up or down from there. I.e., cutting it into thirds may also be an option. Whatever level nicotine satisfies best. It sometimes takes a few minutes to feel the effect of too much, I'm sure you found that out.

I was a 2-3 pack a day smoker, I started with 16mg/ml juice, but was not comfortable with that, so I upgraded to 24mg/ml juice. I was happy as a clam with that. PG sensitivity is something that usually takes a few weeks to rear it's ugly head, with sore throat, or cough, or even lung pain...that happened to me too. So I've been using strictly VG ever since. Do drink LOTS of water, PG and VG are both humectants, make throat and nose feel very dry. So increasing water (which we all should do anyway!) will keep tissues hydrated from the inside.

After a couple months I was comfortably and without withdrawal able to cut my juice from 24mg down to 18mg, and then again down to 12mg/ml a little later. And have stepped down vaping by quite a lot also. I tried a 36mg/ml juice one time thinking I wouldn't vape so much, but the same thing happened to me as it did to your husband!! I was so sick all I wanted to do was lay down....ringing ears, extreme nausea, pounding pulse I could feel all over. My stomach was wretching!! I honestly didn't know if my heart would keep beating, but I was too sick to go find help. One thing, after a bout like that, within an hour he should be recovered...the ½-life of nicotine in the system is about that long.

So being a heavy or light smoker, everyone has a different nicotine level to seek out to be the magic number. It's very effective to have a juice strength that can be cut to your needs, but any flavor will also be cut back. But once you find the correct strength (after a couple days you'll know!) then by all means just order juice with that density. Vaping has a kind of steep learning curve, a little try me is necessary, getting the hang of it all. Not quite as easy as running to the corner store for a pack of cigarettes, but immensely worth it all!! I've not felt so good for years.
Best of luck!!

 

[bluedove3]

Unfortunately, e-cig.com is the company that is adding ...... and rimonabant (weight loss and addiction treatment drug said to cause instances of depression and suicide.) to some of their juices. If they are willing to do that, I'm not sure I'd trust the ingredients in any of their other liquids either. My suggestion would be to find an ECF approved supplier here on the forums and order both PG and VG liquids along with one that has no flavorings. That should probably tell you exactly what your husband is reacting to.

Yeah, I did not mean to bring up E-cig.com as a good supplier, just saying where we got the initial kit. If I had known about their shoddy reputation, we would have never ordered from there.

Thanks for the suggestion! I wish I'd had a clue that it might be a sensitivity issue before we made our last order, I could have made sure to get right stuff to test this out.

 

[iamdougm]

Hi bluedove, Rather than give you my life story, I'll just help a bit with a couple of places to get some blank (empty) cartomizers that fit you E9. If the ones that came with your kit DO NOT have slots cut around the battery side of the carto, these will do.

If the DO have little slots or air holes cut into the battery side, try these.

Once you have your blanks, order some very low mg or even 0 mg juice from a supplier recommended from the above posters.

Hope this will help. Good luck and welcome!

 

[Para]

Unfortunately, e-cig.com is the company that is adding ...... and rimonabant (weight loss and addiction treatment drug said to cause instances of depression and suicide.) to some of their juices. If they are willing to do that, I'm not sure I'd trust the ingredients in any of their other liquids either. My suggestion would be to find an ECF approved supplier here on the forums and order both PG and VG liquids along with one that has no flavorings. That should probably tell you exactly what your husband is reacting to.

I would question whether they actually add those to ecig carts. Both are EXPENSIVE and vaping to deliver a dosage is...well laughable. You're more likely to get snake pee than ............

 

[Kate51]

I would question whether they actually add those to ecig carts. Both are EXPENSIVE and vaping to deliver a dosage is...well laughable. You're more likely to get snake pee than ............

Good point Parallex, people think they can vape vitamin C also, if they read the specs they would know there's no way any dosage of anything except nicotine is a waste of time and money and brain cells. Stick with conventional methods when in doubt. (In a bottle!) And that the amount of necessary nicotine density one vape's correlates more with pharma patches than with past smoking habits.

I still maintain the man's symptoms are classic OD, but guess that's something the OP will have to figure out eventually. I speak with some experience with that as well.

 

[StormFinch]

Who knows if they are actually adding other stuff or not? Supposedly you can get drugs that are through the roof expensive here from other countries at a 10th of the cost. Of course they could also be lying about it. But that leads to the thought that if they are lying about adding ...... to e-liquid, who's to say the wouldn't lie about their sources and the purity of their PG, VG and nicotine as well?

I agree that the husband's symptoms are the same as nicotine OD, I've hit the nicotine wall myself once. It made me wonder though, since the OP stated her husband had a similar reaction with half the amount of milligrams. Since other people had covered the fact that OD has those symptoms, I wanted to make sure she knew that ecig.com was showing up as a shady operation, and that all avenues should be checked. Yes, nic OD does cause nausea, vomiting and headache, but so can allergic reactions. They don't always hit everyone the same way. Growing up, I was allergic to some element in chili powder and would literally be sick for a day or two after eating anything that included it. It was rather upsetting since I adored chili dogs. I guess I should have been more thankful though, it could have been my dad's childhood allergy to chocolate with similar symptoms

 

[Kate51]

I can't eat green peppers or cucumbers! Chocolate's fine though, thank God.

 

[bluedove3]

We definitely HOPE it was just too much nicotine, otherwise vaping may not be an option... but we want to cover our bases here. It certainly seems strange that someone who consumes so much nicotine traditionally (via analogs) would be so sensitive to it in vapor form.

We have some samples of 0mg nic in tobacco flavor and 6mg unflavored on it's way and I bought some USP glycerin today to do some testing out. Hopefully we'll get this figured out!

Thanks for the help!

 

[tybin]

cignot.com has a good vg based marlb juice that works well

 

[Sandybeach40]

He may just not like the taste and it makes him sick.