NooB in a panic - I need to make a purchase decision QUICK!

[carpediem1982]

Hi! I use a DSE 901 for about 1 week. I'm satisfied with de quantity of vapours and start feeling the flavours (in the first 2-3 days - all the flavours was the same ). Perhaps the next will be diffrent, i want a cartomizer
My kit had: 2 complete cigars, 1 bottle 30ml ejuice, charger, empty cartriges (14), i both another bottle ejuice 30ml, acording to the consume for this week - if nothing will hapen with the atomizer , i will have ejuice for at least 1 1/2 months.

 

[swedishfish]

Sweedfish
If tons of people vape over 24mg, they shouldn't , A marlboro Red is ~ 16 to 18mg. At 36mg it is 2x the nic level of Marlboro Reds.
Not wise, and too much stimulant.
Simple math.

Some say the nic level vaped is not as strong. I contend it is, but from my reading just hits at a differing speed in the system. But it is still nic and all there.

Are you a doctor? I don't know where you're getting your math from but it's inaccurate. No one is even sure how much of the nicotine we're actually getting. Some say as low as 1%.

Here are the blood test results of someone chain vaping 36mg nicotine
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3-blood-test-lab-results-nicotine-levels.html

This might be an issue if we were 15 and had never smoked a cigarette. But I assume most of us are long term smokers before we startyed vaping and have built up somewhat of a tolerence to nicotine anyway.

 

[Rickajho]

The OP backagain. I'm in trouble. Maybe.

Day four (yesterday): 26 mg PG all day. And feeling slightly nauseous all day too. Enough so that late last night I switched back to 16 mg VG. It was too late in the day to say that the nausea went away, but it didn't get any worse.

Today: Started with one Pall Mall Blue (light) 100. Felt like I was having a flash back: You know like when you started smoking way back when and felt a little light headed and buzzed from those first cigarettes? It was like that. Threw that info out just to give you a frame of reference on what's going on possibly with my nicotine levels.

Started with the 16 mg VG and for several hours everything is fine. But it's just not enough nicotine so I went back to the 26 mg PG. Only three vapes later and the nausea comes back right away. And I'm having trouble breathing: Felt like there was something lining my lungs that I was trying to breathe through. Not acute, but a little scary. I put the e-cig down, haven't touched it since (about 20 minutes), and the nausea and the breathing problem went away, gradually improving over that short a time period.

The only other thing I have experienced is occasional, infrequent itchiness on my hands. That one hasn't gone away today, and only started after I switched to PG. I'm not as concerned about attributing this to a PG reaction since I have a "common household" allergen profile. It feels just like a histamine reaction that I would have to dust allergens.

I don't even know if there is a point to my posting this. I read through the info and blogs about possible adverse reactions to PG, posssible symptoms experienced when stopping cigarettes and it all seems very counfounding. Right now I'm just a little scared, and scared enough to not want to try the PG again today.

Rick

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

It is a reaction to too much nic......cut it down....I'd stay with the vg and order more liquid with a mix of pg/vg. or up the nic in the vg that you like......Where did you order the juice from....do they have options of a mix?
or you could add vg---available at Walmart, but then the flavor would lessen....

 

[Rickajho]

It is a reaction to too much nic......cut it down....I'd stay with the vg and order more liquid with a mix of pg/vg. or up the nic in the vg that you like......Where did you order the juice from....do they have options of a mix?

I ordered from Cignot.

Would the nicotine matter explain the sensation of breathing difficulty? I could understand it producing the nausea problem. And I'm craving more nicotine and vaping more with the 16 mg VG than when I move to the 25 mg liquids.

I do have another VG option on hand that I haven't tried yet: The EcoPure "mint" sampler at 25 mg. Trying that may answer both questions as to wether the breathing problems and nausea are nicotine based or PG vs VG based.

I'm smoking cigarettes right now. I'm just to anxious to want to play any further at the moment.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

No, I think the breathing is an allergic reaction, but I will look it up and post a link.....don't touch the pg ...

 

[carpediem1982]

Hi! I don't think that the itching, lack of breath and the rest are because of the nicotine concentration. "three vapes", for me that is a small quantity. In bouth cases it started on the same product. It is possible that you make an alergi to that product.
Try a VG (the same brand that you support) with a 26 mg nicotine. I don't believe that something wrong will gonna hapen.


PS: i'm a doctor and see often alergic reactions and diffrent tipe of intoxication with diffrent products.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ing-your-symptoms-while-adjusting-vaping.html

here is a link to answer some of your questions,,,,,,,
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ing-your-symptoms-while-adjusting-vaping.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...onception-all-ejuice-flavors-pg-update-1.html

 

[swedishfish]

I ordered from Cignot.

Would the nicotine matter explain the sensation of breathing difficulty? I could understand it producing the nausea problem. And I'm craving more nicotine and vaping more with the 16 mg VG than when I move to the 25 mg liquids.

I do have another VG option on hand that I haven't tried yet: The EcoPure "mint" sampler at 25 mg. Trying that may answer both questions as to wether the breathing problems and nausea are nicotine based or PG vs VG based.

I'm smoking cigarettes right now. I'm just to anxious to want to play any further at the moment.

I'm so sorry to hear you are having issues. I'm curious to see how the EcoPure works for you. My mother has been having issues lately (not sure it's ecig related) and I ordered her some EcoPure Regular in I think 10 mg.

If the solution for you is just switching to VG, that would be good!

 

[Rickajho]

Hi! I don't think that the itching, lack of breath and the rest are because of the nicotine concentration. "three vapes", for me that is a small quantity. In bouth cases it started on the same product. It is possible that you make an alergi to that product.
Try a VG (the same brand that you support) with a 26 mg nicotine. I don't believe that something wrong will gonna hapen.


PS: i'm a doctor and see often alergic reactions and diffrent tipe of intoxication with diffrent products.

For what I have on hand the Basic VG 25 mg will be from a different manufacturer than the PG 25 mg. (I screwed up in my other post - the 25 mg VG I have is Basic, not Ecopure.) But I believe the important difference will be that the nicotine concentration will be the same, but it will rule in or rule out the PG versus VG question.

Anyway this is the stuff:

25 mg PG I'm afraid to try again:
PG liquid
I just looked at the "extended information" and found the PG is made by Boge

25 mg VG haven't tried yet:
BASIC Liquid -Menthol Sampler

Also, I have my annual check-in appointment with my Allergist coming up May 12th. He's an open minded guy (we have all probably met at least one MD that is not) and most certainly will put questions to him regarding his viewpoint on e-cigarettes and the probabilities and symptoms of adverse reactions to PG as either an allergen or irritant.

Damn, 3 cigarettes later and I'm already back to coughing.

 

[Rickajho]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ing-your-symptoms-while-adjusting-vaping.html

here is a link to answer some of your questions,,,,,,,
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ing-your-symptoms-while-adjusting-vaping.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...onception-all-ejuice-flavors-pg-update-1.html

Hi all, OP back with my personal update

Thank you for the link. I think I had read through that post, or the modified version in the ECF library. And lotsa other items in the library and forum posts I could find regarding my symptom experience. Didn't really find a clear answer. BUT:

Noodles to say I have stayed completely away from PG liquids since. Whether I'm vaping too much or too little (see below...) none of the "PG symptoms" I was having - nausea, breathing difficulty, itchy sensations on my hands - have returned on VG no matter what nicotine level. Question is still open as to whether I had a bad PG reaction. But as I said I will take the PG questions up with my allergist and let you know what he has to say about the issue. That post should go in the medical forum, right?

Could I please get some feed back on my transition experience from butts to vaping? I'm still trying to figure out the nicotine level issue. (Such a NooB...) This is what's going on:

Yesterday evening I cautiously returned to vaping the Basic 25 mg liquids. After several hours everything is just fine, but that "wanna cigarette" craving kicks in toward the end of the day and I smoked 2 or 3 cigarettes. That seemed to settle me down.

Today I vaped for 4+ hours and as that went along I vaped more and more frequently. The problem with describing that is I don't have a clear idea of what is "a lot" of vaping, "very little" vaping etc. This is where I become lost regarding comparing my cigarette habit with the equivalent vaping habit. By now I'm feeling the old "light headed, dizzy, edgy" stuff. And when you read articles like above, or search on the symptoms of "nicotine withdrawal" versus "nicotine overdose" you could pretty much attribute those 3 symptom to either too much or too little nicotine. It is confounding.

So I feel like I need to figure out my own system to figure this out. (That made sense, at least to me anyway...) That being said here are the two questions:

Does anyone know if you can somehow compare a full 510 cartridge to x number of cigarettes or x number of packs or fraction thereof? That would help me to get a relative idea of how much I'm vaping if there is any way to compare cartridge capacity to cigarette quantity.

So you hit that point where you have been vaping only for several hours, the "light headed, dizzy, edgy" is on you and you need figure out if it's from too much or too little nicotine. The knee jerk reaction so far has been to "change something" - change the nic level of your fluid, throw in some butts, vape more, vape less, etc.

What about this option: Do nothing. Stop vaping anything and don't go for the cigarettes either.

If you were experiencing too much nicotine how many minutes should one have to wait for the "light headed, dizzy, edgy" to go away? 30 minutes? Longer?

My point is if the symptoms subsided after xx minutes of no intake at all it would be a fairly clear indicator that you were taking in too much nicotine. OTOH if the symptoms are still there and haven't lessened after xx minutes that would seem to indicate a much lower nicotine level that your system is used to.

Comments? Please. Am I on the right track here?

Thank you everybody once again.

Rick

 

[earthpig]

Rick

If you are using carto's it gets kind of basic. But either way, the carto companies (at least in the 808D-1 format) are calling for ~ 150 to 200 puffs (many lie and claim 200-300) from a carto, which generally has 18 drops of fluid.
200-240 puffs is considered a pack of cigs (or 10 to 12 puffs per cig...mind you this is quite dependent on each individual, but it's a good generalization)

510 carto's hold more juice than an 808D-1, and it is probably more equal to a pack of smokes.


So as a rule, a carto is a little less than a pack of cigs and about 20+ drops of fluid (drop size also varies with fluid thickness) is a pack.
.............
Now, on the nicotine level.
A Marlboro Red has ~1.1mg of nicotine per cig. So 1.1 x 20 =22mg a pack. So a 22mg juice is your target, but to quit, many kick it up a shade to overcome the cig urge, and after quitting for 3 to 6 months will begin to drop the nic level some to back to normal and in time maybe less yet. Some will claim the nic isn't as strong. I claim it is, but absorbs into the system more slowly. Jury is out on that.
I will NEVER tell a customer to go over 24mg, as I consider it dangerous, and hard on the vascular system. If you have hi blood psi. be careful and check it regularly.

Since most don't smoke Marlboro Reds, but something a little less, you can see the tie in.
If you smoke light cigs, the nic level could be as low as .5mg (per cig) x 20 = 10mg e-juice. So quitting might require kicking up to 12mg or even 16mg,

See how it flies? Your type of cig has a bearing on the type of juice from a nic point of view.
These are generalizations but give an idea how to judge things. Your smoking practices and how hard you hit on a cig compared to an e-cig have a bearing as well.

Pigs on the wing

 

[Credo]

510 carto's hold more juice than an 808D-1, and it is probably more equal to a pack of smokes.

Sure about that? I can get more like 50 drops in a bone dry KR808D-1 carto...with a BD medical syringe that measures to a little over 1ml.

No idea who made my KR cartos...but I have some with horizontal coils, and some with vertical coils...and both types hold similar amounts.

 

[Rickajho]

Hi

While I still don't necessarily agree with you on the nicotine math, the cart/capacity info helps clue me in as to what may be going on.

As i said - just using plain 'ole 510 carts - not cartos. And as I understand they have less capacity than the cartos. With a new/dry 510 cart I don't think I ever manage to get more than 12 drops in there, more likely 10. Even less with the Basic VG liquids as I find them to be much more viscous than the other fluids I have tried so far.

But as far as "cart-math" goes I'm only using one and a half 510 carts a day, tops. That would seem to indicate, just based on cart capacity alone, that I'm more likely nicotine deprived than nicotine depraved even on the 25 mg fluids.

Rick

 

[JD1]

Hi

............But as far as "cart-math" goes I'm only using one and a half 510 carts a day, tops. That would seem to indicate, just based on cart capacity alone, that I'm more likely nicotine deprived than nicotine depraved even on the 25 mg fluids.

Rick

I use the 510 atty/carts quite a bit and I count a cart as three cigarettes. Of the few posts that I've read where someone posts what they count a cart as, I think five is the highest I remember. Have you tried starting your day with your high nic content, then switching to a low content later? Several have posted they use that method.

 

[Keenan]

Sure about that? I can get more like 50 drops in a bone dry KR808D-1 carto...with a BD medical syringe that measures to a little over 1ml.

No idea who made my KR cartos...but I have some with horizontal coils, and some with vertical coils...and both types hold similar amounts.

Are those the Bloog MaxxFusion blank carts that hold like 1ml of juice?

 

[Doomed!]

doomed.
You can look up your cig and find the nic content of a cig...times 20 for a pack. (example: Marlboro = .7 per cig X 20 = 14mg)
It then is equated to a carto of 1ml in e-juice, or the rating on the carto you buy. Generally a carto is = to a pack of cigs by their own claims. or 1 1/2 packs per carto, which is off.

No it's not an exact science, but an indicator of where you are at by comparison.

That's what I'm saying. Those numbers that you looked up are per puff not per cigarette. That's what they put on the side of the pack, too (if they still do that, haven't really looked) and those numbers are per puff. They measure it with a "puffing machine". Look up some pictures of it, it's pretty rad. It's kind of like the robot from The Jetsons chain smoking.

 

[earthpig]

Doomed.
It's impossible for that to be per puff.
First off, everyone puffs differently. It's per product piece unless you have proof different.

Example 1 if it was: .7mg per puff X 12 average puffs = 8.4mg a cig x 20 cigs = ""168mg of nic per pack?""
"""thats HUGE when you are comparing to a carto ! and doing a similar number of puffs.
And thats a LIGHT Cigarette!!! Marlboro's number is 1.1 or 1.2mg
Example 2 if it was: 1.1mg per puff x 12 puffs = 13.2 x 20 cigs = 264mg per pk.

Erowid Tobacco Vault : Info on Nicotine Content of Cigarette Brands
"""They say it's per cig"""

Read 4 paragraphs above Table 1, and see Barclay. Next on the top of the page hit "B" and look up the Barclay cig.
Then you can choose a letter that matches your previous cig brand. "M" for Marlboro, etc.

If That doesn't convince you,,, I'm done.