NOT desiring to sub-ohm, just need a little help with understanding coils

[DingerCPA]

O.k. I get some of the theory behind ohms, volts, and watts. My simple brain also gets a tiny bit of the philosophy of different gauge wire (lower number, lower resistance for same number of turns - current "flows more easily", etc.)

I am rebuilding my kanger heads, and about 9 wraps of 28g wire yields about 1.4 ohms (before I can get the stem back on....) In the effort of experimentation, I got some 32g wire (my local B&M was out of 30g) and get about 5 wraps to yield a 2.2 ohm coil. My first 3 or 4 attempts at 28g would never fire, once the head was completely reassembled. Tonight, I have a 1.4 ohm coil that is actually firing on my MVP (yay me!)

I'm pushing my MVP all the way to 11.0W on a 1.4 ohm (28g) coil, and I'm not getting ANY burning. If I even THINK about going over 8.0W on a 2.2-2.5 ohm (32g) coil, my juice fries and I get burnt hits. I did the math, and even 11W on the LR coil, I'm only running about 3.92V. The other coil (I averaged 2.3 ohm for my number-crunching) actually runs me at 4.3 volts.

I have a couple of stock 1.8ohm heads, but when I try to fire them at much above 8.5W, they fry too.

Here's the question.....(finally, I know)..... I'm drawing more current (just over 2.8A) through the LR coil, but yet it doesn't fry my juice. I'm only drawing 1.85A through HR coil, and everything is burning. Is all this because the 28g is less restrictive than the 32g wire?

A side question then becomes, since I have to run my device at higher power (to get the juice to even start vaporizing half-way decently), that basically means I'm going to drain my battery more quickly. Or, because I'm dropping more voltage across the HR coil, would that drain the battery more quickly?

The real test would be comparing a 1.5ohm coil made of 28g to a 1.5ohm coil made of 32g. However, I think I'd only have about 2 or 3 turns to get to that resistance

Sorry for rambling - I think I went into a slight "free-association" mode too.... the question is clear in my head - just not sure if I got it out correctly

 

[VaPreis]

The higher resistance, thinner, 32ga wire heats up MUCH more quickly then then thicker 28ga wire. You should want to turn the wattage down for the 32ga build, and increase it for the 28ga. Although, I doubt you'd ever match the heat of the 32ga build with 28ga wire on the MVP.

That being said, I've found 29 or 30ga wire to be the best when building for the MVP. 28ga or thicker, the MVP just doesn't have the guts to heat it up to my satisfaction.

EDIT: Thought I would also add, that my best performing protank microcoil builds tend to be the ones using 30ga wire for 1.8-2.0Ω. I have done builds at 1/16"ID using 12 wraps of 28ga wire (yes, it just barely fits) for around 1.5Ω and they do not match the performance of the higher resistance 30ga builds when the device is the MVP.

 

[DingerCPA]

Thanks VaPreis. I'm chomping at the bit for some 30g - I figured that would be my "happy medium". My 1.4 ohm coil is now reading 1.3 ohms (and I think my power setting is 10.5 - yup, just bumped to 11) I think I'm starting to understand the hubbub of sub-ohm vaping. It's certainly not overly warm, and I do think I'm getting really nice flavor from it. Just seems like I'm drawing pretty hard to get a good hit. I had been thinking my "preferred" resistance was going to be around 2.2, but I think I'm going to run your range of 1.8-2.0. I think that will give me more versatility....

I finally have a 1/16" drill bit in my "Koil Kit" that I organized this weekend. I had been using a toothpick!

 

[volume control]

Yeah i wrap 7-8x 1/16 micro with 30 gauge for those heads usually(1.6-1.8ohm). 28 gauge takes a lot of power to heat up. The stock coils are super thin and spaced thats why they burn easily i think, or the wick is terrible, or a combination of both. You want as much surface area and heat possible that you can get the wick to handle for the perfect build


Also i got an evod glass, run a 6 wrap 28gauge micro at 5/64 and can fit a HUGE wick(evod glass has a much larger channel since its dual coil stock, but one big single seems to work just fine). Hits like a champ on a spinner so i imagine it would on an MVP too. Its about 1.3 ohm

 

[DingerCPA]

Thanks volume. I tried wrapping the 28g around a toothpick (bigger diameter than my 1/16 drill bit), and that was quite the no-go. Since coil resistance is somewhat function of the length of wire used, wouldn't I want a slightly larger diameter than 1/16 to get a slightly higher resistance? Makes me wonder why I couldn't get the toothpick diameter to work (maybe couldn't get the coil windings tight enough?)

Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmm"

 

[edyle]

O.k. I get some of the theory behind ohms, volts, and watts. My simple brain also gets a tiny bit of the philosophy of different gauge wire (lower number, lower resistance for same number of turns - current "flows more easily", etc.)

I am rebuilding my kanger heads, and about 9 wraps of 28g wire yields about 1.4 ohms (before I can get the stem back on....) In the effort of experimentation, I got some 32g wire (my local B&M was out of 30g) and get about 5 wraps to yield a 2.2 ohm coil. My first 3 or 4 attempts at 28g would never fire, once the head was completely reassembled. Tonight, I have a 1.4 ohm coil that is actually firing on my MVP (yay me!)

I'm pushing my MVP all the way to 11.0W on a 1.4 ohm (28g) coil, and I'm not getting ANY burning. If I even THINK about going over 8.0W on a 2.2-2.5 ohm (32g) coil, my juice fries and I get burnt hits. I did the math, and even 11W on the LR coil, I'm only running about 3.92V. The other coil (I averaged 2.3 ohm for my number-crunching) actually runs me at 4.3 volts.

I have a couple of stock 1.8ohm heads, but when I try to fire them at much above 8.5W, they fry too.

Here's the question.....(finally, I know)..... I'm drawing more current (just over 2.8A) through the LR coil, but yet it doesn't fry my juice. I'm only drawing 1.85A through HR coil, and everything is burning. Is all this because the 28g is less restrictive than the 32g wire?

A side question then becomes, since I have to run my device at higher power (to get the juice to even start vaporizing half-way decently), that basically means I'm going to drain my battery more quickly. Or, because I'm dropping more voltage across the HR coil, would that drain the battery more quickly?

The real test would be comparing a 1.5ohm coil made of 28g to a 1.5ohm coil made of 32g. However, I think I'd only have about 2 or 3 turns to get to that resistance

Sorry for rambling - I think I went into a slight "free-association" mode too.... the question is clear in my head - just not sure if I got it out correctly

Here's the question.....(finally, I know)..... I'm drawing more current (just over 2.8A) through the LR coil, but yet it doesn't fry my juice. I'm only drawing 1.85A through HR coil, and everything is burning. Is all this because the 28g is less restrictive than the 32g wire?

It's because you need more power to keep a thicker gauge coil hot enough. Imagine a really big coil about a foot long and 5 inches wide; obviously the amount of power you need to get that to get warm is alot more than a tiny 5 mm sized coil.

A side question then becomes, since I have to run my device at higher power (to get the juice to even start vaporizing half-way decently), that basically means I'm going to drain my battery more quickly. Or, because I'm dropping more voltage across the HR coil, would that drain the battery more quickly?

Running higher power will drain the battery faster.

The real test would be comparing a 1.5ohm coil made of 28g to a 1.5ohm coil made of 32g. However, I think I'd only have about 2 or 3 turns to get to that resistance

The 28gauge coil will take more power to keep the same temperature as the 32gauge coil.

The 28gauge coil will have more metal surface area compared to the 32gauge of the same resistance.

 

[Topacka]

I'd put money on the reason all the stock coils 'fry' (read: dry hit) is because they're pre-wicked with silica and silica is a poor wicking agent for vaping. But that said, all of your reasoning is sound.

 

[ElConquistador]

I gave up on 28 gauge wire after a couple of tries. It just took too long to heat up (using a Vamo and Russian). I pretty much use 30 gauge now, wrap it on a "Gizmo" coil winding tool from Michael's craft store for a perfect coil every time.

 

[dr g]

I'd put money on the reason all the stock coils 'fry' (read: dry hit) is because they're pre-wicked with silica and silica is a poor wicking agent for vaping. But that said, all of your reasoning is sound.

Usually more very thin gauge wire and small coil size, so not much juice mass. Silica is fine for quite a bit of power if you use enough of it.

 

[volume control]

Thanks volume. I tried wrapping the 28g around a toothpick (bigger diameter than my 1/16 drill bit), and that was quite the no-go. Since coil resistance is somewhat function of the length of wire used, wouldn't I want a slightly larger diameter than 1/16 to get a slightly higher resistance? Makes me wonder why I couldn't get the toothpick diameter to work (maybe couldn't get the coil windings tight enough?)

Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmm"

It sounds like it was shorting against the sides. If you want to run 28 gauge you want to run a lower resistance, I think 28 starts to really shine under 1.4 ohm, and higher and it just takes too long to heat up. Make sure you have plenty of room on the sides and your center pin leg isn't shorting out anywhere. I don't know the exact diameter of a toothpick, but drill bits work nicely for sizing your coils, or really small screwdrivers

 

[coalyard]

Heh. You actually tried to fit a 28ga microcoil at 1.4 ohm into a PT head? And I thought I had a high tolerance for pain! Anyhow, everyone's advice is solid. You really need to get ahold of some 30ga. A 1.8ohm microcoil with a 1/16" ID wicked with organic cotton is about as good as it gets with a PT, taking into consideration it's inherent design and wicking limitations.

In particular, Volume is right. 28ga is really good for coils in the 1.2 or under range, which is way lower than a ProTank is capable of handling or for that matter an MVP is capable of firing. Best of luck to you. There are a lot of threads here about microcoils in a PT to point you in the right direction.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

I actually don't mind how slow the 28 gauge takes to heat up. I like the added surface area of more wraps that I need to do to keep the ohms up to firing range for my regulated devices. More surface area means more juice vaporized at once, which means more taste for me.

 

[tj99959]

O.k. I get some of the theory behind ohms, volts, and watts. My simple brain also gets a tiny bit of the philosophy of different gauge wire (lower number, lower resistance for same number of turns - current "flows more easily", etc.)

I am rebuilding my kanger heads, and about 9 wraps of 28g wire yields about 1.4 ohms (before I can get the stem back on....) In the effort of experimentation, I got some 32g wire (my local B&M was out of 30g) and get about 5 wraps to yield a 2.2 ohm coil. My first 3 or 4 attempts at 28g would never fire, once the head was completely reassembled. Tonight, I have a 1.4 ohm coil that is actually firing on my MVP (yay me!)

I'm pushing my MVP all the way to 11.0W on a 1.4 ohm (28g) coil, and I'm not getting ANY burning. If I even THINK about going over 8.0W on a 2.2-2.5 ohm (32g) coil, my juice fries and I get burnt hits. I did the math, and even 11W on the LR coil, I'm only running about 3.92V. The other coil (I averaged 2.3 ohm for my number-crunching) actually runs me at 4.3 volts.

I have a couple of stock 1.8ohm heads, but when I try to fire them at much above 8.5W, they fry too.

Here's the question.....(finally, I know)..... I'm drawing more current (just over 2.8A) through the LR coil, but yet it doesn't fry my juice. I'm only drawing 1.85A through HR coil, and everything is burning. Is all this because the 28g is less restrictive than the 32g wire?

A side question then becomes, since I have to run my device at higher power (to get the juice to even start vaporizing half-way decently), that basically means I'm going to drain my battery more quickly. Or, because I'm dropping more voltage across the HR coil, would that drain the battery more quickly?

The real test would be comparing a 1.5ohm coil made of 28g to a 1.5ohm coil made of 32g. However, I think I'd only have about 2 or 3 turns to get to that resistance

Sorry for rambling - I think I went into a slight "free-association" mode too.... the question is clear in my head - just not sure if I got it out correctly

The laws of thermal dynamics trump ohms law every time. It's the changes of air flow & wicking that allow the LR coil to work at a higher wattage. Even a 10 ohm coil would burn at a low wattage if it doesn't get the air & liquid to keep it cool. That's why there is a thermostat to keep the coolant at the proper temp. in your car engine. When building coils & wicks YOU are the thermostat.

 

[DingerCPA]

Coalyard, completely "slurped" a tank of sunkiss float from my local B&M in about 20 min on that bad boy!

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