NSW Current legislation

[Gatso]

Ill try to keep this simple....

(I am from a legal background in field criminal offences BUT I am not a lawyer and this information may not be accurate and is open to mis-interpretation - use at your own risk)

Nicotine is listed as a poison under the Poisons and Theraputic Goods Act 1966(NSW).

POISONS AND THERAPEUTIC GOODS ACT 1966

This act is confusing at best - even for people who know their way around the law. Items in relation to this act are governed by "Schedules" (which is a list of items such as Nicotine).

NICOTINE IS SCHEDULED AS A POISON!!!!!

You can find the current schedule here:

http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/resources/publichealth/pharmaceutical/pdf/poisons_list_alpha.pdf


But ill just copy the relevant 'poison'

7 NICOTINE except:
(a) when included in Schedule 6;
(b) in preparations for human therapeutic use; or
(c) in tobacco prepared and packed for smoking. .
4 NICOTINE in preparations for human therapeutic use except:
(a) when included in Schedule 2; or
(b) for use as an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking in chewing gum, lozenges, or
preparations for sublingual, transdermal or oromucosal spray use.
2 NICOTINE for use as an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking in preparations for inhalation.
6 NICOTINE in preparations containing 3 per cent or less of nicotine when labelled and packed
for the treatment of animals.

Schedule 6 is in reference to use on animals so it does not apply
Scedule 2 is also of little relevance to the use of e-cigs.

Now if you go to the Act that I linked above - which creates offences section 16 is the offence of possession. HOWEVER - section 16 only relates to Schedule 4 which does not include Nicotine. So in essence we can possess it.

We cannot sell it (Nicotine) because of Sections 9, 10, 11, 34 and 36 of the Act.

All that aside - If I am mistaken.....and I can be, especially with this Act....I would certainly argue that I am in possession of Nicotine for ...preparations for human therapeutic use.

"Therapeutic use" has the same meaning as in the Commonwealth Act"
"therapeutic use" means use in or in connection with: (a) preventing, diagnosing, curing or alleviating a disease, ailment, defect or injury in persons; or
(b) influencing, inhibiting or modifying a physiological process in persons; or
(c) testing the susceptibility of persons to a disease or ailment; or
(d) influencing, controlling or preventing conception in persons; or
(e) testing for pregnancy in persons; or
(f) the replacement or modification of parts of the anatomy in persons.

Answer "Im trying to quit smoking your Honour....preventative measures for cancer and other smoking related illnesses"

I dont actually know if I would run that argument but its a side thought anyway.

At the end of the day my advice would be DO NOT POSSESS ENOUGH EJUICE IN NSW TO BE ACCUSED OF BEING IN POSSESSION FOR THE PURPOSE OF SUPPLY. How much that is I cant tell you but use common sense. And dont test this or stuff it for the rest of us who are clearly trying to beat smoking.

And please please please - research this yourself and argue what I have posted. It is important if you can prove me wrong for everyone.

 

[RichardLOZ]

Thanks Gatso

You should join us down on the Aussie Vapors forum locally as well if you have the time.

 

[Gatso]

No worries. I researched this before I bought anything. I cant think of any offence of possession but be careful how much you own. There is this whole 'possession for the purpose of supply' thing

 

[RichardLOZ]

From what we have deducted from all of the legislation is that it is "legal" to import up to 3 months supply for personal and immediate family use. makes it pretty gray though if one person vapes 2 ml / day and another vapes 12 ml / day. Makes for quite a varied range. Life is complex sometimes...LOL

 

[Gatso]

Well another part to this would be the 'spirit' of the legislation. "Was the law designed for this?"

Is it in the spirit of the legislation to convict a person for smoking steam nicotine in an attempt to elliviate harm to themselves. Its there to stop criminals being criminals and possessing anthrax.

Is there a petition or something in regard to this? Its an industry that should need strong regulation though. Maybe get on to Alan Jones or something

 

[RichardLOZ]

Letters have been sent to something like 115 politicians, and to date I believe there have been only 15 responses, with about half of those pointing to a different minister (who had already been emailed) and the rest baing a copy & paste job. Email and phone calls have also been make to the TGA, state authorities etc, and still with no one actually able to give any reasonable or logical definition of the "law" as it currently stands....

 

[soundasleep]

Not meaning to *bump* a quieter thread, but I'm the person in Oz that has been spending (arguable wasting) time to try and get all of this clarified. If anybody is interested, I'm blogging the entire process at smokescreen.info as well as regular discussion on the AussieVapers forum.

If anybody has the legal knowledge to assist with the disecting the information I've already discussed please let me know!

 

[light487]

"6 NICOTINE in preparations containing 3 per cent or less of nicotine when labelled and packed for the treatment of animals. "

This is still worth noting though that they have imposed a limit. 3.0% is the same as 30mg/ml.. so any questions over possessin higher than 30mg/ml might be worth considering. Anything under that and it could be useful to show a relative harm relationship that already exists in law. It is not stated what kind of animals though as there is a big difference between how a full grown house or cow would react to 30mg/ml of nicotine compared to how a small dog or cat would.

 

[Rysup]

packed for the treatment of animals

Can someone explain how/where/why nicotine is used in the treatment of animals??? Or is this just for bullcrap animal testing?

 

[Satans_Monkey]

I actually emailed the minister for health not long ago asking for a definitive answer as to why the sale of liquid is illegal especially with all the benefits of vaping. You know what she said? Nothing. Ab-so-lutely nothing, no "hey Mr Monkey I read your email and honestly I dunno either" or "Mr Monkey please don't email me again" no nothing. I don't know how much tax and tobacco companies have to do with the legalisation of selling juice locally but it does seem odd that with all the anti cancer and smoking is bad for you ads out that a healthier alternative would be embraced.

P.S. No I didn't send an email under the name Satans_Monkey, although it would've been funny.

 

[soundasleep]

Emails almost always get ignored - you need to send a real life letter. Even them it will take about a month to get a response, and it will just be a bunch of canned replies.

 

[purrin]

I'm confused. I also need to know the legal stance NSW has on e-ciggies. I am going to New Zealand this summer and I want to know if I can take my e-cig and liquid with me, or will customs arrest me or what? Also I regularly import supplies for personal use.
Should I ring them up and ask. Anybody else left from mascot or come in with them, any problems? Because they're going to show up in the metal detector afterall.

Regards
C.

 

[Rysup]

you'll have no problems purrin, RichardLOZ from earlier in this thread was overseas very recently if I'm not mistaken

 

[symphynity]

No need for confusion , the only thing that is illegal is the sale of Nicotine Liquid . Possession of liquid , cartomisers , E Cig batteries is perfectly legal.

 

[soundasleep]

Technically even possession is illegal in most states, but luckily nothing is actually being done about it.

I think I've figured out a "work-around" to be able to bring nic juice into Australia legally (for personal use only) but I'll hold back from posting the how until I can make some phone calls on Monday. I'm pretty confident it will work, but don't want to jump the gun...

 

[symphynity]

No need for a " work Around" , it is legal to import nicotine liquid for personal use into Australia. I have some friends who are Customs Officers , and they inform me it is quite legal to import ( and some of them do so themselves ) . QLD is the only state where problems are encountered , and that is with QLD Health , not Customs.

 

[light487]

I think the problem is that it's still very much a grey area when siezures do happen. So if your stuff gets siezed, what recourse do you have... and I think that is what soundasleep is trying to establish by finding the specifics (not just opinion and heresay) of the laws that will protect us should a siezure occur; or should you get stopped in the street etc. If there was a specific law and sub-paragraph that you could quote (or better yet, put on a business card in your wallet), then you'd always have a point of recourse should either of the above happen.

Police: What is that?
You: It's an electronic nicotine vapouriser.
Police: Nicotine is a poison/restricted drug. Here's a fine and I am confiscating all your stuff.
You: But this law, blah blah blah, allows for me to have and use this.
Police: Oh right. Move along citizen.

 

[soundasleep]

No need for a " work Around" , it is legal to import nicotine liquid for personal use into Australia.

There are no Federal or Customs laws preventing it's importation, but if it's considered Schedule 7 then their are most definately State laws that prohibit not just importation and possess and use. If it's Schedule 4 (as the interim decision published August 24th states) then it's legal at State level with a prescription.

The trick is the States health authorities won't acknowledge that decision (nor will the TGA), but fortunately they aren't doing anything about it. I'd like to think it's because they are wrong and don't have a legal leg to stand on but it's more likely they just don't have the funding or manpower to do much about it (except QH at this stage).

 

[none]

lol, what has queensland health actually done? I live in QLD and have no problems with importing nic or e-cig goods, I'm guessing the police wouldn't have a clue about the laws pertaining to e-cigs, so at this point its all a lot of talk and not a lot of action nor need there be. Bloody stupid politicians, we have one involved spending money on adult entertainment another stealing groceries and all the while banning e-cigs while taxing tobacco reaching higher inflation then gold! saying I'm trying to help you, ITS FOR THE CHILDREN! lol parents with less money and poorer health with the cost of either tobacco or ....ty overpriced NRT's, yep that will save the children...

Getting a little off topic there, I know a few people who work for QH and from first hand account I can assure you that QH is way over burdened as it stands, if they had any sense they would be embracing e-cigs with open arms! less people smoke would mean less stress on hospitals.

but as they say QLD the smart state.. lol

 

[Hackcessor]

lol, what has queensland health actually done? I live in QLD and have no problems with importing nic or e-cig goods, I'm guessing the police wouldn't have a clue about the laws pertaining to e-cigs, so at this point its all a lot of talk and not a lot of action nor need there be. Bloody stupid politicians, we have one involved spending money on adult entertainment another stealing groceries and all the while banning e-cigs while taxing tobacco reaching higher inflation then gold! saying I'm trying to help you, ITS FOR THE CHILDREN! lol parents with less money and poorer health with the cost of either tobacco or ....ty overpriced NRT's, yep that will save the children...

Getting a little off topic there, I know a few people who work for QH and from first hand account I can assure you that QH is way over burdened as it stands, if they had any sense they would be embracing e-cigs with open arms! less people smoke would mean less stress on hospitals.

but as they say QLD the smart state.. lol

So you come here to taunt them?