Police ourselves

[Tinker]

MSNBC just had a "headline" on their ticker saying that the FDA is concerned about water-soluble nicotine products. From the UK to the USA?

For the most part, Uncle Sugar is worried that it's not getting it's cut through sin-taxes on nicotine products the way it gets it from alcohol and tobacco products.

But to involve the FDA, there's a concern over non-addicts becoming addicted.

Is it the candy flavors? Are we simultaneously catering to ourselves AND targeting kids? If not, it's still providing the FDA with unlimited ammunition to try to step in and regulate e-smoking (and get it taxed to death).

Non-addicts are going to agree with a statement that, by the nature of the favorings, a target must be kids. If just using a cartoon camel was enough to get them out with pitch forks and torches, what will they think about flavorins like jellybeans and bubble gum?

I'm as guilty as anyone; I don't vap tobacco-flavored liquids because I hope to break my addiction someday and don't want anything reminding me of or tying me to cigarettes. I'm six months off of my two pack a day habit, and I ain't never looked back.

I think we need to ask ourselves some hard questions and try to find answers that head-off the FDA's interest. Some starters might be:

Do we need shopping-mall kiosks, or are we better off flying below the radar for a while?

Do we need candy flavors or could we survive on more adult-like flavors? The coffess, for example? Will the same people who pushed smokers into social pariahs see coffee as child-oriented, or just the candies?

I do not want to be forced back to tobacco, and government interest in e-liquid/soluble nicotine products - here or anywhere else - scares the bejeebers out of me.

I am an addict. If they take this away from me, I'm not going to say, "Well, that's it, I'm done with nicotine!" I'm going to get it any legal way I can - and that might end up being tobacco.

What can we, as a community do, by ourselves, to blunt the FDA's interest?

Saints preserve us from federal agencies!

- Tinker

 

[Wafflestomper]

That's what always floored me about the flavored cig ban even...not really targetting kids if we don't "SELL" it to kids... By definition, having to be 18 to buy it should mean "targetting anyone BUT kids".

I think that fact alone makes it glaringly obvious that it's a money issue, and not "for the kids".

 

[Tinker]

I don't disagree with you, wafflestomper; but flavored cigarettes were not sold to minors, either.

And does it matter if it's a money thing if the attack they use is, "targeting the children"?

- Tinker

 

[beast775]

they will if ever,destroy the market by using genetically modified flavours,that are almost free to make but will charge 100xs the amount.they will not be able to produce a nic delivery system for every intake of vape.the personal vaper is a metal tube with a battery,its just a toy.

putting the word cigarette with these is using common law status.a cigarette is a cigarette?nope.it is a battery with a metal tube.they cannot outlaw a toy for use over 18.but they can group cigarette with these devices and thats how they are going about this.i will always buy underground.no marlboro ecigs for me thanks.i can make my own.

 

[Tinker]

Good point, even associating the word "cigarette" is fuel for the fervent non-smokers.

 

[crashtestjeep]

I think its all abt the $$$$ too. Heck, theres now nictine lozenges, FDA approved, in CANDY flavors.....The lozenges, NOR ecigs advertise with cartoons and dont make it look "enticing" to minors so I dont see where this "kid" debate is even coming from. Not sure if many have seen the poll on here amember is doing, but MOST ECF members are above the age of 26yrs.....
I think in the end, the liquid will prob become a taxed item and well be able to get the hardware at regular prices. Id be willing to take that hit for the whole ecig war to be over...even tho I dont think it should be taxed bc it NOT a tobacco product. Esp if vendors use NONtobacco derived nicotine like Ultrapure and Ecopure and a few others. I also doubt well have to pay taxes if we buy online from overseas but then the US companies will lose out and our economy will stay in the dump....Im not sure ppl realize the long term when they make decisions concerning these things but I can only hope I do my part well enough so that using ecigs stays affordable and obtainable...

 

[pianoguy]

The whole kids/flavors argument is absolutely ludicrous. Kids try cigarettes for exactly one reason - because it is forbidden. Cigarettes could be flavored like doggie-doo, and kids would still try them.

 

[Guineahill]

Here is a link to the article. FDA compares dissolvable tobacco to candy

"Dissolvable" tobacco... does that really sound like something kids would like? ICK!!!!

 

[Elapid]

On the soap box,

It's all about the revenues the government isn't getting from E-cigs, they couldn't care less about the publics health. If they did care we wouldn't have big tobacco pumping billions into the tax pool. Plain and simple, the government would like for you to die right when you stop being a working tax paying citizen. Tobacco plays right into the governments grand plan, big tax revenues and puts the non tax payers in the ground.

off the soap box.

 

[Turco Chips]

Do adults not like sweet stuff? Candy? Me and my son went to a Dallas Stars game last week and I had a bag of cotton candy!!! Heavens to Betsy!....those damn cotton candy pushers lured me in with that fluffy blue and pink cottony goodness.

The "flavors targeting kids" thing is getting real old and I find myself getting absolutely LIVID everytime I hear it or read it...


See the cartoony Satan in my sig? I put it on my facebook page hoping to try and lure kids to SATAN!!!!!

TC

 

[316lvm]

Personally, I believe the whole flavors ban is a fear tactic. I think the FDA, if it really wants to get into this area of banning "flavored" nicotine would just open up another avenue for nicotine addicts to get their flavors.

Then what? Will the FDA then start banning flavors all together if DIYers started making their own flavored nicotine? The FDA would have to ban the flavoring industry.

And what constitutes adult flavorings? Coffee? Chile? Who makes that determination? Why should I have to give up fruit flavors because someone thinks it's for kids?

Are we also going to ban flavorings for different ethnic groups because it might influence their kids? So the Asian community can no longer have green tea, plum, milk flavored products? What about the Latins? No horchata, expresso?

This is just insane. Think about it. There are far worse things out in the "real" world than flavored e-juice.

 

[pmd]

I'm afraid that the cat is out of the bag already.Vapeing is catching on more and more and as it does, you know it will be harnessed in somehow sometime by the govn't. It seems inevitable really. I can only enjoy this now and wait to see what happens next. I don't think petitions or anything will do a damn bit of good. We will be at the mercy of those in power like it or not. I have no conspiracy theories here about what will come next but can only enjoy it now and if I have to start spending as much on juice and supplies as I did on smokes, then I will have to use the pv as a way to actually quit altogether some day. That was the plan in the begining anyway, to wean off a bad habit.
So I will enjoy what I have today cause I don't think we will have anyone on our side if the fed gets involved. Lets just hope it's years away.

 

[Connman]

Do we need shopping-mall kiosks, or are we better off flying below the radar for a while?

Can`t stay below the Radar with this being the 2nd Largest as described in the post here.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...d-fastest-growing-forum-world.html#post995765

 

[navyboym]

The best thing you can do is to educate people on what the facts are, and to keep your elected officials educated on the facts as well. The best defense is to convice the people that write laws is to see our point of view.

 

[darkmatter22]

damit.................

 

[butchrobotpope]

It comes down to the interests of big money. Who profits? Both in the short & long term? If tobacco companies (or other big corporate interests) jump into the e-cig business, they'll be looking at the long term profitability. Politicians are only going to look at the short term political gains.

Yes, the "protect the kids" routine is hollow. But that kind of attack is very effective. Hey, no one ever went broke by banking on the gullibility of the average person.

The OP asks if we should "police ourselves". I say, that's the wrong question. If we even get any say about regulation of e-cigs, it's going to be WHO will police this business. Personally, I'm more than a little concerned.

 

[clyde2801]

Aren't we (PV retailers and consumers) already policing ourselves? Every site I've been to clearly states that you have to be 18 to enter. You have to use a credit card or paypal to order online, and paypal won't let you order PV products. For a minor to order PVs, there has to be an adult enabling them.

And the 'we've got to do this to protect the kids' is a straw man argument. How many times has the government tried to regulate or police the internet to 'stop child porn' when the measures they've attempted have little or nothing to do with it? Stop taking away my choices as an adult because of other people's poor or non-existant parenting skills!

If the government really cared about the health of children, they would stop fast food restaurants from installing playgrounds and putting toys in their kid's meals. Or dictate that such meals have REAL FOOD in them. Why don't they? I suspect that the tax base, and gucchi clad lobbyists for the fast food industry writing love letters to legislators in the form of checks might have something to do with it.

And as much as I think the current US healthcare system needs to be reformed, I'm terrified at universal healthcare. Do I think everyone having access to doctors is a bad idea? Obviously not. But I'm convinced that this is going to lead to what Thatcher called 'the nanny state' wherein the government is going to try to regulate and/or tax every aspect of my personal life because my lifestyle choices may end up costing money later down the road.

Call me cynical, sure. I'll call you naive right back.

 

[zoomie61]

they will try anything to weasel their way into the market to get a piece of the pie those dirty crooks. See, they use the kid thing to get to peoples emotions and strike a nerve. What better way to get in on it than to use the kids as targets. Do you really think they care about the kids? I don't. It's just smoke and mirrors to get a way in. It's like everyone else says, they want to be able to generate the big bucks from it...

 

[CaptJay]

Who here started smoking because there were flavored cigarettes?
In the UK we didn't have any flavors - tobacco and menthol was it.
I don't personally know anyone hwo thought smoking was cool because 'it tatstes like candy'.
People eat candy for that reason, not smoke. If this wasn't true every child would be smoking. Are all children smoking or were hey smoking when there were flavored ciggies here in the US? No..of course they weren't. They aren't PVing either.

AND while we're on the specious argument - why aren't flavored condoms being scrutinised for a ban? Won't they lure children into having some form of sex?
What about those sensuous 'massage oils' eh? I've seen banana and orange flavorings. They also have bubblegum and cherry. Surely that will make all minors into rampant sexual fiends?!

 

[zoomie61]

haha CaptJay...funny but oh so true! I think they use a lot of the flavored condoms and oils so they keep their mouths shut about those.