Primatic flat cell battery help

[Foggyroomz]

I originally posted this in the general section I guess I didn't scroll through enough sections to find this section for modding etc. Anyway my question is I'm building a custom box mod and wanted to use flat cell for space and weight benefits but I'm not sure how to determine the battery capacities and where to find something that will work in a high drain high amperage device. I don't have much in the understanding of battery technologies and C ratings composition or any of that, I know MNKE 3500mah 26650 for my Hades and Sony VTC5 30 amp for all my 18650 needs but I'm building a frankenstein mod and for weight and space I want to get away from conventional tubular cells. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm ot to proud to admit that I'm lost in battery confusion LOL!

 

[rhelton]

Im guessing that you want to use a lipo? Thats doable, as far as c ratings are concerned it really depends on what your requirements are. Is it regulated or unregulated, max amp ratings.

Basically what are you building?

 

[Foggyroomz]

Both mech and regulated and I need to sustain a 60 amp continuous discharge

 

[pnyc]

A prismatic lipo cell may have the high discharge rate you are looking for. However, they will not have the same safety features as a cylindrical cell (like a safety vent, PTC, current interrupt device).

 

[Visus]

I know you want to get away from cylinder cells but whoa they are hard to beat for size when getting up that high in amps
the sonys can handle up to 200 amps before short. (tested)
In Stock genuine high discharge rate rechargeable cylindrical 18650 Li-Ion batteries Sony, LG, Samsung from PowerStream; authentic 18650HE2, US18650VCT4, US18650VCT5, VTC4, VTC5, INR18650-25R with battery data sheet and discharge curves

IDK The safest route is a well enclosed and electronically protected mod but even those can have failures
IMO a cylinder is better in all categories when it comes to next to your face lol..

Small mods ya cannot beat lipo's size but with some tight tolerances 18650's can be rather small and huge mah.

Two sony in parallel will easily handle your amp needs but who in their right mind would vape 400 watts continuously anyway
there's noone who could unless you have one of these party mod atomizers.

 

[Foggyroomz]

I read that the sony VTC5 handle 150amp burst at a period of like 2 seconds and 30 amp continuous drain until the cell is dead. I want more mah and amp capability but keep it in a relatively smaller package versus like a 1590bb hammond box. I don't want the thing to be like vaping off a shoebox but I want enough juice to push.08 ohm build without battery failure and have the batteries last more than 15 minutes. If I can't find what I'm looking for in a flat-cell then I'll make the equivalent out of 18650 cells and make a custom enclosure to house the extra batteries and still keep the unit small hand friendly

 

[Visus]

The sonys in parallel will handle 60amps continuous.
Its really a great battery.

Yeah lipo's will give you the amps for <~20A in a small package but getting up near 60A the packs even small lipo's in parallel are the same size or bigger than 4 18650's @~36mm square but most flat lipo packs I have seen will be wider or longer than 65mm... The round lipo's would be awesome to parallel 58mmx15mm 1200mah 15A

With 4 of those you will have 60A and 4800mah in a smallish config..
Turnigy nano-tech 1200mah 1S 15C Round Lipo

Theres a guy on Breaktru's forum that made a 12000mah 480A mech 5400mah 280A mod with an enclosure squared to the packs dimension a stack of small flat lipo's it wasn't that big either, if I find it I will post it.

Here's the post
http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,1137.0.html

 

[chargingcharlie]

So do you all think the batteries I use in my RC helicopter would be too big to use? They're only 6S 5,000mAh at 65C

The one advantage I see to LiPo batteries is that the quality ones can be charged at higher rates. I charge my heli batteries at 20A and they are done in about 15 minutes from 20% capacity. 1S LiPos usually can't handle more that a 1C to 2C charge rate, but that's still a 30 minute to 60 minute charge vs the long charges a lot of the LiOn batteries require. I'd recommend anyone going LiPo to steal away from Turnigy. They make junk batteries that puff very easily.


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[Visus]

So do you all think the batteries I use in my RC helicopter would be too big to use? They're only 6S 5,000mAh at 65C

The one advantage I see to LiPo batteries is that the quality ones can be charged at higher rates. I charge my heli batteries at 20A and they are done in about 15 minutes from 20% capacity. 1S LiPos usually can't handle more that a 1C to 2C charge rate, but that's still a 30 minute to 60 minute charge vs the long charges a lot of the LiOn batteries require. I'd recommend anyone going LiPo to steal away from Turnigy. They make junk batteries that puff very easily.


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Many modders using the turnigy cells with 0 complaints with long mileage on them.
I guess it depends on use, they have been bench tested as well to spec matching great results.
The round nano cells not their bigger packs, I have no idea about those..

 

[chargingcharlie]

Many modders using the turnigy cells with 0 complaints with long mileage on them.
I guess it depends on use, they have been bench tested as well to spec matching great results.
The round nano cells not their bigger packs, I have no idea about those..

They could be fine for vaping use. I'm basing my opinion on 3S to 6S use with RC airplanes and helicopters. I had horrible luck with them and got rid of all of mine. I stick with mostly Pulse and Thunder Power, but Thunder Power are crazy expensive. Batteries in the picture above cost me around $150 and a TP of the same size and rating is closer to $300.


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[Visus]

They could be fine for vaping use. I'm basing my opinion on 3S to 6S use with RC airplanes and helicopters. I had horrible luck with them and got rid of all of mine. I stick with mostly Pulse and Thunder Power, but Thunder Power are crazy expensive. Batteries in the picture above cost me around $150 and a TP of the same size and rating is closer to $300.


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Thanks for the heads up, I am a electric r/c car guy myself. I have been dormant for many moons and still have the nimh packs lol.
I'll never forget when the 1800mah batt packs were released we went nutz lol very good stored in the refrigerator packs back then... They released the 2500mah packs about three months later I knew I should have waited, it was rumored. I cannot imagine the new brushless motors and lipo packs 100mph+ not even trying lol.

Traxxas XO does 100mph RTR it's a huge new day in r/c because of the batts..
200mph record just last month was entered in the books
I am a HPi guy myself have owned every RS4 and their pro's and can find no reason to upgrade they are fabulous..
That hobby --its worse than e cigs lol

 

[chargingcharlie]

You ain't kidding! The last heli I built this year cost me over $2k. The power from LiPos is amazing though. Sorry for bringing the thread OT...Back to your regularly scheduled program.


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[Foggyroomz]

I'm still uncertain 18650 cells are less expensive and take longer to charge Lipo are more expensive but I could set them up to charge in 20 min off an R/C charger so I could do a new build on the atty while it was charging and both would be done about same time. Now if I were to have enough batteries to just keep swapping when they run low it will be about the same amount as the lipo cells. The li-ion are a safer chemistry though, I'm going to have to weigh the cost now versus efficiency but thanks everyone for your input and once the projects done I'll post pics and performance vids I have 2.5 months to prepare for this expo and cloud competition so hopefully this works out to be done and ready to kickazz by then

 

[chargingcharlie]

It all really depends. LiPo and LiOn both have very similar charging methods, but some 1S LiPo batteries will let you charge at a higher rate than 1C. I'm not sure how high you can go with 18650 cells from various brands, but I know the one brand I have right now has a max charge rate of 1C. I forgot to order a damn charger when I ordered my Cool Fire 1, which arrived tonight, so I'm charging the 2,200mAh 18650 for it at just under 1C (2.0A) and it still nice and cool after the charge rising from then 10% it came at to 40%. I can deal with 1C if I have to, but I'd be happier with a 2C charge rate for sure. I couldn't believe the brand new cell was at 10%, though. They should have been at a storage voltage of 40%.

Talk about a laughable setup...I'm using a high end charger to charge an e-cig battery with the leads taped to the battery (with springs for tension). I'll pick up a charger that fits it tomorrow on my way home from work. The one by me is closed already.

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