Question about charging MVP 2.0

[erikbal]

I finally received my MVP 2.0 Friday and love it! I used it for over 12 hours yesterday and the battery only dropped to 3.9. My questions is...I am pretty .... about keeping things charged and I was wondering if it would hurt to charge it every night even if the battery isn't really low. From what I read about lithium ion batteries is that you're better off not letting them die anyways. So say my voltage is only down to 3.9 or so. Is it going to hurt it to plug it in and top it off a lot? I've done this with my cellphone which has a non replaceable battery and it's 1.5 years old and I have noticed no decrease in battery life at all. Thanks for any input guys!

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[AngryPirate]

Nothing scientific to back it up but I plug mine in every night. It's generally 3.8-4 at that time. 2 months in and no performance changes.

 

[Subdivisions]

Lithium ion batteries can be charged at any point in their discharge cycle. Older Nicad batteries suffered from a "memory effect" if you didn't discharge them fully before charging them. This isn't the case with lithiums or Nickel metal hydrides. In fact if you charge it from say 80% up to full charge it only counts as 1/5 of a charge cycle against the max number of charge cycles for the battery (most state about 500 charge cycles)

The MVP will shut the device off if the battery is too low so you don't have to worry about discharging too much.

 

[wonner]

I've heard several experts state simply, "Lithium batteries love to be charged."

Charge 'em if you got 'em.

 

[j3illy]

I've done a lot of reading online about lithium batteries, and read a study about how to get the most longevity. Instead of topping the battery off to full, and/or letting it drain completely, it said the best method was to charge it at ~35% capacity, and take it off the charger at ~85% capacity. There's no harm in charging them to full since Li-ion are so versatile, but it's not the most ideal situation for the cell. They don't like to be at 100%, and if ever overcharged it will damage the battery (not really a concern w/ the cut-off but still). That last 10-15% of trying to fill the battery actually takes just as long as the main bulk of charging, since it's charging much more slowly at that point.

From what I gathered from the article, it said if you charged the batteries in this manner, you could get upwards of twice as many full cycles of life (even though you're only charging it in 1/2 cycles, since that doesn't matter w/ Li-ion). It's more of an inconvenience, but I've been trying to follow this method w/ my 2 batteries I rotate with. If I was gonna be going out for a while or something, I would top it off though just to get the extra capacity, but if I'm just at the house it's not so much an issue.

 

[erikbal]

Ok guys that's great, thanks! This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Also since it charges with a micro USB my car cell phone charger fits it so I assume it's not going to hurt anything to charge it some while in the car, like if I'm going on a short trip across town or something. It'll be fine even if I don't fully charge it every time it's plugged in is basically what I'm getting at. I also like to top it off before leaving the house so no matter what happens I know I'll be set with battery life.

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[NEILBOAT]

I had been pondering the same question!
The Literature that came with mine stated that you shouldn't recharge til it was below 10% capacity!
Clarification would be great!

Neil

 

[j3illy]

There's so much conflicting info that's thrown around regarding Li-ion batteries, and it has a lot to do w/ the way you had to charge the older style Ni-Cd/Mh rechargeable batteries. Those had a strict protocol for optimal use, but that isn't the case w/ the Li-ion, no matter what sort of recommendations you hear. There's no harm in letting it drain completely, and then charging it to full. You'd still get your few hundred charge cycles. But that one article I mentioned, apparently you can get upwards of twice as many full cycles, w/ smaller half charges. Heat is 1 of the enemies of lithium batteries which occurs during charging, and when you don't push it to the max, there's more longevity. I think the website I was reading is battery university, a lot of reputable info on there.

 

[Mark Anthony]

I've had mine a couple of months and have yet to see it drop below 3.8.... Usually charge it every 2 or 3 days.

 

[SnowDog]

I had been pondering the same question!
The Literature that came with mine stated that you shouldn't recharge til it was below 10% capacity!
Clarification would be great!

Neil

Yeah, this threw me off too. Still does to be honest. My user manual says the same thing.

The capacity of the MVP is 4.2 volts. 10% of 4.2 = .42.

The MVP shuts itself off at 3.3 volts to avoid over discharge. There must be a different way to calculate voltage.

I'm confused.

 

[j3illy]

I think the capacity has to do w/ how long the battery will last before it's completely drained from use. This happens when the battery falls to a certain threshold voltage, but it's definitely well above .42 volts. No matter the case, they're saying not to charge it until the battery is almost fully depleted, and that's not accurate info for Li-ion.

 

[p.opus]

This is a very good article on Li-Ion batteries. This is why I don't mind going into pass through mode on my iTaste vv3 occassionally. People say its bad for the battery, but according to this article, it's not true. I use one battery a day. If I'm low, before I go to bed, I put it on charge and vape while it's charging.

I have three batteries. If the batteries only last 300 full charge cycles, then I won't need to worry about my battery until 900 days or almost two and a half years. By that time, something much nicer than the Itaste vv3 will be available.

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

 

[Subdivisions]

That last 10-15% of trying to fill the battery actually takes just as long as the main bulk of charging, since it's charging much more slowly at that point.

You're correct. It's not quite as long as the bulk of the charge but the top off takes a while and it's not a great percentage of the total charge

There's so much conflicting info that's thrown around regarding Li-ion batteries, and it has a lot to do w/ the way you had to charge the older style Ni-Cd/Mh rechargeable batteries. Those had a strict protocol for optimal use, but that isn't the case w/ the Li-ion, no matter what sort of recommendations you hear.

This is correct for Ni-Cd batteries but not NiMH. The nickel metals are similar to Li-ion or Li-Po as far as charging and discharging. They just have a lower power density, also they have the same cell voltage as Ni-Cd (1.2V). Nicads had a memory effect to where if you would charge them when they weren't completely discharged they would discharge to a certain point normally and then drop in voltage drastically. Kind of like it remembered the point at which you started charging it as being the point of being dead. A completely chemical thing.

There's no harm in letting it drain completely, and then charging it to full. You'd still get your few hundred charge cycles. But that one article I mentioned, apparently you can get upwards of twice as many full cycles, w/ smaller half charges.

You are correct in a way but it's not a full charge cycle. It's only half a charge cycle. The beauty of lithiums is if I'm at 90% and charge it all the way up I only used a tenth of a charge cycle. Therefore If my battery allows 300 charge cycles and I always charge it when it gets to 50% I can do that 600 times. It's still 300 full cycles though

 

[Ksprings]

yeah, this threw me off too. Still does to be honest. My user manual says the same thing.

The capacity of the mvp is 4.2 volts. 10% of 4.2 = .42.

The mvp shuts itself off at 3.3 volts to avoid over discharge. There must be a different way to calculate voltage.

I'm confused.

it would be great if someone could elaborate on your topic. Its puzling.. Mvp shuts off at 3.3???

 

[SnowDog]

it would be great if someone could elaborate on your topic. Its puzling.. Mvp shuts off at 3.3???

Yes. I have not taken mine down to 3.3 volts yet but that is what the user manual states. I've only charged mine once and I did so at around 3.72 volts. (I'm estimating but it was about 30 puffs after the yellow light came on) And my puff counter was at 540 puffs at that point.

This thread has been helpful for me. I feel a little better about the charging concept now.

I've decided not to worry too much about it. I will charge it when the red light comes on whenever possible. Otherwise, I'll do it whenever it's convenient for me. Doesn't sound like it will be a problem either way.

 

[cocacola31173]

Is it safe to let it charge overnight? I know I have always done this with my Ipod and my cellphone but never with my vaping batteries but it would be more convenient to do it that way.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Should be fine to charge overnight but someone with more experience then I can confirm this. Li ion batteries are the same as what is in a cell phone, right? I think I remember Steve Jobs bragging about how half a charge will only count as half a charge back when the iphone came out. That was due to the Li ion batteries, right?

 

[p.opus]

If the MVP 2.0 is like the iTaste vv3, the unit will auto shutoff once it is fully charged. On the Itaste vv3, the fire button remains illuminated throughout the charge cycle. Once it is fully charged the LED on the fire button extinguishes and the charging stops.

 

[j3illy]

You are correct in a way but it's not a full charge cycle. It's only half a charge cycle. The beauty of lithiums is if I'm at 90% and charge it all the way up I only used a tenth of a charge cycle. Therefore If my battery allows 300 charge cycles and I always charge it when it gets to 50% I can do that 600 times. It's still 300 full cycles though

That's what it seems like when we're talking "half a charge cycle", but if you use the most optimum charging habits, you can literally double the 300 full cycles to 600 or more. This would involve many partial charges where you charge long before the battery is drained, and don't top it off completely, since that last 10-15% is taxing on the cell. Take a look at that link from battery university, it's pretty interesting. Li-ion have a sweet spot, where if you could always keep the battery at say, roughly 50-80% capacity, you'll get a lot more "full" cycles, than if you always topped the battery off to 100%, in which case you'd be getting the ~300.

 

[djtonyb]

it would be great if someone could elaborate on your topic. Its puzling.. Mvp shuts off at 3.3???

Lithium batteries do not like to be fully discharged. In a nutshell, they work well from full charge down to about 3 volts, and after that, the dropoff in voltage is rather quick and can damage the internals... most electronic mods cut off at 3.2 volts to avoid this. You should never fully discharge a lithium battery, it will shorten the life at best, and can cause battery venting at worst.