Question about Nicotine Stength?

[jmain]

According to the pack of du maurier ultra light king size(Canadian), each cig has 0.9 to 2.4mg of nicotine. Don't they have the similar information on the side of Marlbro pack?

 

[smellysocks]

You can find nicotine content of many common US brands here, but typically 0.7 – 1.7mg/cig

 

[swedishfish]

Arguments aside, thank you to everyone who posted in this thread because I think that there is some quite useful advice buried between the absorption disagreements.

I'm a 10-yr, half-pack smoker who just placed a first order for a starter kit. I wish that I had seen this thread sooner because I did some math and assumed absorption to be the same as through cigs, and decided to try 6 and 12 mg juices assuming consumption of 1-2ml/day of juice. I'm trying to use vaping as a way to stop smoking and to eventually stop using nic altogether, but it sounds like I might want to try some higher nic juice to stave off cravings without increasing the amount of time spent going through the physical ritual of smoking. In the past when I've tried to quit smoking using nicotine replacement/dopamine inhibitors, the craving for the ritual was what ultimately caused me to light up again. Therefore, perhaps higher nic dosages, coupled with a gradual tapering of the ritual, will help me better than immediately decreasing my nic uptake.

Anyone care to comment on this? Am I going to suck through all of my juice before a second shipment has time to arrive? Should I try to be proactive and place an order for some 24mg juice before my kit arrives (tomorrow)?

There really isn't any way to determine what nicotine strength your going to need until you start vaping. I see a lot of newbies that seem to have some sort of fear about nicotine strength for some odd reason and end up getting a low nicotine strength and it's either not enough to get them off cigarettes entirely or the vape so much they get half sick from the flavorings.

If you goal is to quit smoking cigarettes you're going to need a high enough nicotine strenth to do that, even if it's for a couple weeks. If you didn't OD on nicotine smoking, you won't vaping. That might happen to someone that never smoked before but as a smoker I assume you've built up some sort of tolerence to nicotine.

I ordered 12 mg & 24 mg and figured I could add to the 12 or reduce the 24 if I wanted to. 24 was perfect for me. I ordered 24 for my mother (a long time smoker, but a light cigarette smoker) and she was still smoking. I ordered her 36 and she vaped that for about 2 weeks and it got her off cigarettes, she went back to the 24 then slowly decreased to 18, etc. Now she vapes 6 mg. But that's over 6 months.

Order small bottles in different nicotine strengths. You'll find out pretty quickly the right strength for you.

 

[swedishfish]

You can find nicotine content of many common US brands here, but typically 0.7 – 1.7mg/cig

Here's a good article

Do 'Light' Cigarettes Deliver Less Nicotine To The Brain Than Regular Cigarettes?

The two take-home messages are that very little nicotine is needed to occupy a substantial portion of brain nicotine receptors," Brody said, "and cigarettes with less nicotine than regular cigarettes, such as 'light' cigarettes, still occupy most brain nicotine receptors. Thus, low-nicotine cigarettes function almost the same as regular cigarettes in terms of brain nicotine-receptor occupancy.

"It also showed us that de-nicotinized cigarettes still deliver a considerable amount of nicotine to the brain. Researchers, clinicians and smokers themselves should consider that fact when trying to quit."

 

[smellysocks]

Thanks for the advice! I'll order some other strength juices right now. Good excuse to try some other flavors too.

 

[benetay]

I got all with the same strength and flavour.

 

[rolygate]

See this post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/211345-new-users-nicotine-strength-questions.html

 

[seven7219]

Thanks for the advice! I'll order some other strength juices right now. Good excuse to try some other flavors too.

I also will also try favours too... THAnKS all for the wonderful advice

 

[wv2win]

Even 1 ml of 30mg is more than a pack of butts.About 3x(edit misread, OP said 30ml at 24mg not 30mg) more at 2ml's.There is about 18-24 mg per full flavor pack of cigs so 1ml of either strength would be about where you want to be if you want to keep it at that level...........

At 2ml per day of 24mg juice I don't think you need to worry about upping your nicotine use.
The absorption rate of electronic cigarettes is much less than cigarettes.

Just do what feels right.

You are not taking absorption rates into consideration at all here.

As others have said, the absorption rate of nicotine from vapor is the big unknown - this makes it almost impossible to say that x cigarettes of Brand A are equal to y milliliters of juice at z mg nicotine......

I will try to make this simple for you. I bolded your comments and added the comments from others on this thread which was exactly the same point I was making about your initial post.

You cannot equate the strength of your eliquid or how many mls to use based on the strength of nicotine in cigarettes. Plain and simple. You telling a new person to only vape 1ml a day based on the strength of their eliquid is where we all disagree with you since you don't understand the difference in nicotine absorption from smoking in comparison to vaping.

If you answer this time, how about limiting your answer to where we disagree, i.e. telling a new person to only vape 1ml a day and the absorption factor differences between vaping and smoking.

 

[SMKNOMOR]

That's the problem. We don't disagree. You just have a two sided opinion that contradicts each side. Why dont you tell noobs to vape the ratios according to the absorption. You don't. You tell them to vape 24 mg. So do most others cuz that is what works a good part of the time and 96mg is insane.Even 30mg which is saying absorption is down only approximately 20%, most people just making the switch would agree is clearly way more than they are used to getting from tobacco.

Read the edit after the first boldend part of my statement.....Negated, null point.

And I wasn't specifically telling the person to vape ONLY 1 ml. I was pointing out what 1 ml equals in relation to his topic and you know it. You have tried manipulating my words before and you havent gotten away with it yet what makes you think you ever will?Quite frankly, twisting someones words around to manufacture an argument to be won, a little desperate if you ask me.Kinda like implying I have been off topic when all I have addressed other than your added nonsense is the absorption vs 1-1, or do I not have your exalted permission to stand up for myself when you insult me or manipulate my words?

We disagree on the study side of your argument which conflicts with your 24mg advise which you agree with me on. The study isn't concurrent with all the advise given here including yours.

Studies are only finite till the next one comes out proving it wrong. It is the way with every corner of science. Global warming, the health of eggs, evolution, big bang, BPA,asbestos,Pluto being th ninth planet, MSG and Pharmasiticals. There used to be studies saying cigarettes were good for you. Sometimes you just have to go with what is more logical. 96mg a day is not logical.

 

[DC2]

Perhaps not. But still, Do you think 18-24mg is too little?

I have no idea if 18-24mg strength is too much or too little for any given person.
But saying that 1ml of 30mg strength is more than a pack of smokes is very misleading and not really helpful in any way.

 

[SMKNOMOR]

You and I know that the odds are that any PAD smoker making the transition to vaping from smoking would find 30mg (BTW, the 30mg was a misread on my part)to be more than they are used to getting from tobacco. So how is it misleading?

I'm not coming from where you are coming from on purpose because when you look at what happens out here in the field it is a whole lot different than it looks on paper. There is more evidence than you guys are willing to admit. You are only looking at one thing that you read somewhere and ignoring the fact that it doesn't actually work that way in real life.

I have carefully reflected on the real world implications of the study you guys keep railing on and it doesn't fit. Just do the math.

Look, we all know what average person is using for pv's when they find vaping, 808's, 510's, maybe some egos. They dont yet know about LR,HV CE2's etc.. Just the standard basic equipment that is producing inferior amounts of vapor. Its only later we upgrade and start vaping multiple ML's. Yet 18-24 MG is still a standard.Why? Because it falls in beween too little and too much for the vast majority of transitionnors .

What is recommended by most, including you guys, and what most use, is much closer to 1-1 Than you are letting on and contradicts the study findings. On average vaping those ratios would be far too overwhelming for a PAD smoker making the transition.

There is just no two ways about it but you guys insist there is.

 

[DC2]

You and I know that the odds are that any PAD smoker making the transition to vaping from smoking would find 30mg (BTW, the 30mg was a misread on my part)to be more than they are used to getting from tobacco. So how is it misleading?

Nobody said anyone should transition with 30mg juice unless they are a heavy smoker.
So why you bring that up is a mystery to me.

I'm not coming from where you are coming from on purpose because when you look at what happens out here in the field it is a whole lot different than it looks on paper. There is more evidence than you guys are willing to admit. You are only looking at one thing that you read somewhere and ignoring the fact that it doesn't actually work that way in real life.

This forum is full of studies and real life testimonies that contradict you.
I am not even clear how you feel you can sustain this argument.

Cite something (anything) that backs you up, then we can talk.

I have carefully reflected on the real world implications of the study you guys keep railing on and it doesn't fit. Just do the math.

No, you do the math.

Then show your "math" results here so they can be critiqued.
Our arguments fit with the experience of vapers, and the results of studies that have been done.

Look, we all know what average person is using for pv's when they find vaping, 808's, 510's, maybe some egos. They dont yet know about LR,HV CE2's etc.. Just the standard basic equipment that is producing inferior amounts of vapor. Its only later we upgrade and start vaping multiple ML's. Yet 18-24 MG is still a standard.Why? Because it falls in beween too little and too much for the vast majority of transitionnors.

And that is when people start reducing nicotine strength.
So what's the problem?

What is recommended by most, including you guys, and what most use, is much closer to 1-1 Than you are letting on and contradicts the study findings. On average vaping those ratios would be far too overwhelming for a PAD smoker making the transition.

You're just guessing at this phantom 1:1 ratio with nothing to back it up.
It seems you are relying on the idea that new vapers are using 1ml per day, which I doubt very highly.

Out of this conversation I do perhaps see a new poll coming from me.
I always like to make polls!


But I do see where you're coming from in that new vapors are often not getting as much nicotine as experienced vapers.
And maybe that is one reason experienced vapers reduce nicotine as their delivery systems become more efficient.

Of course many vapers seem to do that anyway, regardless of their circumstance.
And usually with great ease.

So I'm still not clear on the main point you are trying to make?

 

[DC2]

And by the way, if you want to group "us" together, please know that me and wv2win rarely see eye-to-eye.
I am not on "his team" nor is he on "my team" in the general sense.

We've had our battles.


EDIT: But his heart is in the right place
EDIT: At least I'm pretty sure it is
EDIT:

 

[Endosidney]

When I started 6weeks or so ago, I was using 8mg cartos from 51(mall kiosk kit). While it generally satisfied me, I was really using them constantly and I have not smoked a cigarette since that first day. As I started buying juices(and I mean a lot of juices) I tried 12mg, then 18mg, 24mg. They were definitely better .......I am currently using a REO Grande with 24mg Halo Tribeca and find that it not only satisfies ANY cravings but it's immensely enjoyable.

 

[Longhorn RN]

Glad I found this thread...very helpful! I bought the 24mg starter kit and a pack of medium refills and the lower dose seems to help with my cravings just as well. Still new at it, so I'm sure it's going to take a bit of trial and error. The info in the ECF library about vaping, nicotine etc. was helpful and gives examples of too much, differences, etc.

 

[Stosh]

I started on 24mg, no satisfaction, moved up to 36mg to kill the cravings. 1 1/2pad smoker.

Realize to absorb the full 24 or 36mg of nicotine from 1mL of juice you would have to DRINK it.

NOT recommended

Difference between downing a few shots of liquor and putting them over a candle and
inhaling the fumes given off, which will get you a buzz?

 

[swedishfish]

You'd look a little funny trying that one in a bar Stosh.

 

[SMKNOMOR]

Nobody said anyone should transition with 30mg juice unless they are a heavy smoker.
So why you bring that up is a mystery to me.

A mystery? Really?

A:

I have no idea if 18-24mg strength is too much or too little for any given person.
But saying that 1ml of 30mg strength is more than a pack of smokes is very misleading and not really helpful in any way.

I was responding to you.

and B:

30mg juice unless they are a heavy smoker.

If a pack of cigarettes is 24mg at most, even at 30mg that is only a bit over a 20% reduction in absorption.Hardly the "fraction" you have been railing on and if it is agreed that 30mg is too high for a Pad smoker and 24mg is more suited than that is what we call a 1-1.

If 30mg is too much for a noob that says something about absorption only being a "small fraction" seeing it is only 6mg more than a pack of butts

If you are talking about my first post. You should know. I told you in my last post to you.go ahead look

This forum is full of studies and real life testimonies that contradict you.
I am not even clear how you feel you can sustain this argument.

Cite something (anything) that backs you up, then we can talk.

Cite something (anything) that backs you up, then we can talk.

I just did. you helped me. Thanks

No, you do the math.

Then show your "math" results here so they can be critiqued.
Our arguments fit with the experience of vapers, and the results of studies that have been done.

Again I just did.

And that is when people start reducing nicotine strength.
So what's the problem?

I dint even understand this question.Problem? what problem? all I was saying is people tend to gravitate to 18-24mg which just so happens to be closer to 1-1 than you "Fraction absorption" argument. Look more math There has been alot in my statements Its getting a bit redundant at this point.

You're just guessing at this phantom 1:1 ratio with nothing to back it up.

Umm. I think I just did and so does anyone else who thinks 18-24mgs is a proper starting point. That means you.

It seems you are relying on the idea that new vapers are using 1ml per day, which I doubt very highly.

Yup, with average starting kits you would have to puff on it all day, way to often for anyone to fit vaping into life. you honestly think the average noob starts out a heavy vaper? not logical How many carts do you think they go through. think about it.

Out of this conversation I do perhaps see a new poll coming from me.
I always like to make polls!

Already did: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...u-need-quit-butts-first-week.html#post3798281

But I do see where you're coming from in that new vapors are often not getting as much nicotine as experienced vapers.
And maybe that is one reason experienced vapers reduce nicotine as their delivery systems become more efficient.

Thank you for being objective it is the amounts needed by Noobs that we have to compare to tobacco since they are the ones still addicted to it. After a while you stop being a smoker and cant compare.

So I'm still not clear on the main point you are trying to make?

Ok. to be clear. My point is,

If it is agreed that a pack of buts is 18-24mg and if the average PAD smoker finds the 18-24mg liquid to be the sweet spot and because more would be overwhelming as compared to what they are used to with tobacco, than unless they are vaping multiple mls which I'm sorry, I think its just common sense that very few noobs are chain vaping their standard 510's, Its is only feasible on paper, not in real life that you need many times the liquid nic to equal the tobacco nic sweet spot on average as a smoker.

For example, you say absorption is only a fraction of tobacco. how much is a fraction? a fraction is typically referred to in amounts less than 25% IMO( I think it is safe to say wv2win agrees). So being generous i'll give you 25%. That would that would mean Noobs would have to vape 4mls at 24mg or 96mg liquid. which is more likely in reality? I think we both know the answer to that.

to sum up, When you take into account all the real world averages, absorption being only a "small fraction" is unlikely and liquid is closer to 1-1 than on paper. IMHO

Thank you for not being rude. Some people just cant handle a polite disagreement.

 

[SMKNOMOR]

if you want to group "us" together,

Ummm, I didn't... you did

I am not on "his team" nor is he on "my team" in the general sense.

I'm not sure how you thought I was implying anything more than you guys agree with this particular issue.

EDIT: But his heart is in the right place

Have you seen how he talks to me?

EDIT: At least I'm pretty sure it is

Trust me its not. Its is way too important to him. It is personal. This isn't about right or wrong for him ,otherwise he would show objectivity as I have to him in the past. Its is about win or loose. Its a competition.He tries bullying me into falling in line with his view and I cant be bullied.Its a P***ing contest. Why do you think he hasn't jumped all over the other posters who pointed out the pack of .... Mg strength.