Question answered - Low Gauge Vs High Gauge Kanthal-WhichHeats Up Faster

[niczgreat]

I've seen on the forums many times questions about Low Gauge Kanthal Verse High Gauge Kanthal specifically which heats up more quickly. I'm not making judgements on vaping quality or what's the best to roll. Just illustrating what happens when:

we compares Identical Atomizers [Reomizer 2] Identical Wick [FC-2000 Porous] Identical Ohms .65 +- .01Ohm
How quickly a 2 Wrap 30 Gauge Kanthal Heats UP compared to a 5 Wrap 26 Gauge Kanthal

Both of these wraps were experimental and I didn't like either. They are for demonstration purposes only.

1st Video you can skip, I just demonstrate that the two are both .65 =-.01Ohm

 

[niczgreat]

2nd Video
Comparing the two.

 

[niczgreat]

I should add that I really disliked vaping on the 2 wrap 30 Gauge it heated up so quickly that the wire was burning, my FC-2000 wasn't up to the task of keeping it moist and I had to lower the Watts to the lowest possible to keep from burning the wire.

My DNA20D couldn't step the voltage down to a low enough level to vape this 2 wrap without a Burning taste.

I didn't like the 5 Wrap 26 Gauge either, just doesn't vape right.

Afterwards I made a 4 Wrap 27 Gauge .64 Ohm and it vapes perfectly.

The rapid heating of the 32 Gauge shows why Higher Gauge Wraps need to be vaped at lower Voltage and are probably used in the standard Clearomizers and Cartomizers on the market.

 

[niczgreat]

I've had to link to this thread a number of times because the results are counter intuitive.

 

[crxess]

All variables must come into play to perform proper testing.

Any mistake in assembly, weak link in fluid transfer or inability to maintain proper power balance will effect final results.

The No.1 weakest link would be human evaluation as it is not consistent among groups or able to be precisely duplicated by other humans.

Just my observation

 

[niczgreat]

All variables must come into play to perform proper testing.

Any mistake in assembly, weak link in fluid transfer or inability to maintain proper power balance will effect final results.

The No.1 weakest link would be human evaluation as it is not consistent among groups or able to be precisely duplicated by other humans.

Just my observation

I welcome others to duplicate my experiment and post their video. I have yet to hear from anyone saying that they have tried my experiment or a variation, or seen in their own construction of coils that my result is wrong.

In addition there are very many Saavy RBA guys on the forum and if this video was out of whack, I would assuredly have heard by now.

Just my rebuttal

 

[toughguitar]

I prefer 30 gauge simply because of the heat factor. A lower gauge that takes longer to glow, will probably generate more heat and it will probably retain that heat longer. Thinner wire will cool down quicker and shorter firing cycles will probably release less heat. I've never tested this theory or compared different gauges side by side, but it seems reasonable.

 

[Penn]

The rapid heating of the 32 Gauge shows why Higher Gauge Wraps need to be vaped at lower Voltage and are probably used in the standard Clearomizers and Cartomizers on the market.

So which heats faster doesn't make a quality vape? Funny how people fixate on one dimension.

 

[suspectK]

I use cartomizers, and I typically use a higher power output than I do with my RBA/RDA...not that I don't ever take my RBA up to a higher power level, but I typically stay in a rather low range. I think I'm inclined to agree with you, toughguitar. I've settled on 30 gauge for that reason as well..

 

[abstractcousin]

nice thread!

 

[PitBullLover]

So, I think the OP did a great job wording his question. I am wondering the same thing.

I think another factor that needs to be addressed is our I individual "hit" technique. I use mainly gennies (90% of the time), but ProTanks and carto tanks as well.

When I first heard the term "mouth" hit a while back, I was confused. When I was a smoker (and if I ever, hypothetically, were to smoke "something", wink wink), I've always just inhaled until I felt the proper, comfortable sensation in my throat, removed cig (again, or whatever), I haled the remainder in my mouth, paused, exhaled. The classic "lung hit" as it's referred to with vapers.

So, the point of that...

I take smooth, slow (as in don't "suck" in hard), 5 second straight up lung hits. Numbers don't mean anything to me anymore. The airiness of the draw of attached device plays more of a role in where I set the voltage/ wattage.

I'm rambling. My main question (and I know there are variables), is:

Is the super fast vaporization that sub ohm stuff is all about the I WANT THE SHORTEST HIT that I can get?... like people who want a 2 second hit, not a 5 second hit?

Is it safe to assume that if one prefers big, smooth lung hits, that they will be someone who has no need to even consider the sub ohm thing...

From what I understand, it's just a way to make more vapor more quickly, benefiting those who like short hits. If I, as a 5-second-deep-smooth-lung-hit, built a low ohm coil... it'd just be too much throat hit and I'd cough, choke, and have a sore throat for an hour.

Am I on the right train of thought? I am with the OP. I hate having to replace batteries throughout the day, and am satisfied with my current setups. I also hate running out of juice. On my ZAP and RSST, I swear I just eat through the juice.

I'd love to have ONE more setup (who here can't relate to that?!)... an inexpensive mech like the Magneto with an inexpensive RDA like an IGO-L up top. It would have a sub ohm coil. I'll learn a lot about the variables, just like I did when I started using gennies. Maybe it'll just be for those times I want a QUICK, STRONG hit(s).

Am I correct in thinking, as "a rule of thumb", sub ohming came about in an attempt to take shorter hits with more "punch"?

 

[Thrasher]

that my result is wrong.

That they are, and here is why.

You cannot go for one facet of the wires capability by testing 2 different thicknesses of wire at the same resistance. you impose limits on the system by sacrificing one ability to gain another, no one is going to use a 2 wrap coil so using this for a test standard is meaningless.

If you tailor the wire thickness and Re per inch to the type of coil you are building you can get similar results from all wire. and this has to be taken into account when testing or evaluating wire for personal use.

in simpler terms you would not use 32g wire for a 10 wrap micro coil or try to use 28g wire to make a 9 wrap 2 ohm genesis build on a regulated device.

the properties of the wire must be suited for the build on hand, in that regard building a .8 ohm coil with 4 wraps of 28g on a mechanical will give you close to the same response time of a 4 wrap 2 ohm coil using 32g on a regulated mod. clearly even though there is a 20 watt gap between the two.

If you try to match two different wires by resistance alone with the same power output simple physics will dictate one will heat up faster then another.

almost all my builds are 4/5 wraps and i would never go below 30g on a regulated device or above that same 30g on a mechanical. yet the wires (28 to 32g)seem to vape just fine with plenty of vapor from both even using the same atty.

 

[mackman]

Joule's first law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_heating

 

[Idaholandho]

That they are, and here is why.

You cannot go for one facet of the wires capability by testing 2 different thicknesses of wire at the same resistance. you impose limits on the system by sacrificing one ability to gain another, no one is going to use a 2 wrap coil so using this for a test standard is meaningless.

If you tailor the wire thickness and Re per inch to the type of coil you are building you can get similar results from all wire. and this has to be taken into account when testing or evaluating wire for personal use.

in simpler terms you would not use 32g wire for a 10 wrap micro coil or try to use 28g wire to make a 9 wrap 2 ohm genesis build on a regulated device.

the properties of the wire must be suited for the build on hand, in that regard building a .8 ohm coil with 4 wraps of 28g on a mechanical will give you close to the same response time of a 4 wrap 2 ohm coil using 32g on a regulated mod. clearly even though there is a 20 watt gap between the two.

If you try to match two different wires by resistance alone with the same power output simple physics will dictate one will heat up faster then another.

almost all my builds are 4/5 wraps and i would never go below 30g on a regulated device or above that same 30g on a mechanical. yet the wires (28 to 32g)seem to vape just fine with plenty of vapor from both even using the same atty.

^This. Close thread .

 

[Rader2146]

Joule's first law would only tell us that the two coils will produce the same amount of heat energy. However, Joule's first law and the specific heat capacity of Kanthal can tell us how long it would take each coil to reach 480 °C (the point where thermal radiation becomes faintly visible).

From 20°C to 480°C @ 15W:

0.65Ω of 30g = 1.872 seconds

.065Ω of 26g = 4.735 seconds


The times are a little off from the results in the video. But....the DNA20 isnt a buck converter. 15W at .65Ω would require ~3.1V. That is clearly lower than the DNA can provide since it acts more like a direct drive when requested voltage is less than battery voltage. Assuming that the actual power at the coil is more like 21W (3.7V) the calculations look more like the results from the video. If the battery was fully charged, or close to it, the times would be even quicker.

30g = 1.33s

26g = 3.38s