Quick Question about batteries/amps specifically

[RyGuy83]

Prob already know the answer to my own question just would like to make sure. Lol

I have been using mech squonks a lot lately like the 528 DS and Armageddon V2. My question is this..

I mainly am vaping in the .15 range, which is around 26-28amp (depending if you divide by 4 or 4.2). Now I ONLY use vtc5a's.... However(main part of question here), if I use something like a Lg pink Hb6 will I notice an increase "harder hit" since they are 32amp?

I am guessing NO since I'm only pulling 26amps from my .15 build and 5a's give me 25a? So I shouldn't notice a harder hit if I use Hb6's right?

Or am I wrong? Hope this wasnt posted in the wrong thread and someone with knowledge in this area of batteries and mechs can help.

Thank you

 

[bwh79]

Keep in mind, the batteries don't "provide" amps. The build "demands" them, and the battery gives out what the build demands, whether it's safe to do so, or not. The amp limitation tells you whether it's safe to do so or not.

That said, volt drop is a thing, but it's not directly related to amp limits. Actually I think the 5A's are considered some of the "hardest-hitting" (i.e. least volt drop) cells on the market right now.

Higher amp limits will allow you to build lower, pulling more amps (and therefore more watts) from a cell at the same voltage, but this is because of the lower resistance used, not because of the higher amp limit capability.

 

[RyGuy83]

Right I understand all of that. Thanks for responding. I'm just looking for someone to agree with me on the fact that going with a higher amp battery (30a) won't give me a harder hit bc the builds I use are in the 25a range. Therefore using a 30a Hb6 over my 25a wont give a harder hit.

Thanks

 

[bwh79]

I'm just looking for someone to agree with me on the fact that going with a higher amp battery (30a) won't give me a harder hit bc the builds I use are in the 25a range.

It won't won't hit harder because of the amp limit. It will won't hit harder because of voltage drop when under load.

 

[bwh79]

It won't won't hit harder because of the amp limit. It will won't hit harder because of voltage drop when under load.

For example, your car doesn't "not go faster when you floor the accelerator" because you're in a 45mph speed zone. (Your car doesn't know what a "speed zone" is!) Your car doesn't go faster when you floor it, because it's a Yugo.

 

[Walee]

Unfortunately, the only way I know to test that would be to put both batteries on a scope and test them under load to watch the discharge characteristics over the first few seconds. I guess you could also try them both and see if you could sense a difference. The CDR of each battery doesn't tell me much about how they will discharge during a vape.

 

[AzPlumber]

Keep in mind, the batteries don't "provide" amps. The build "demands" them, and the battery gives out what the build demands, whether it's safe to do so, or not. The amp limitation tells you whether it's safe to do so or not.

That said, volt drop is a thing, but it's not directly related to amp limits. Actually I think the 5A's are considered some of the "hardest-hitting" (i.e. least volt drop) cells on the market right now.

Higher amp limits will allow you to build lower, pulling more amps (and therefore more watts) from a cell at the same voltage, but this is because of the lower resistance used, not because of the higher amp limit capability.

Right I understand all of that. Thanks for responding. I'm just looking for someone to agree with me on the fact that going with a higher amp battery (30a) won't give me a harder hit bc the builds I use are in the 25a range. Therefore using a 30a Hb6 over my 25a wont give a harder hit.

Thanks

No, you didn't understand all that because he gave you the answer you were looking for in the first paragraph.

 

[RyGuy83]

No, you didn't understand all that because he gave you the answer you were looking for in the first paragraph.

I actually did and if you read EXACTLY what I wrote I already knew the answer all along just wanted fellow like minds to agree with me.

Like I said "I just want someone to agree with me". It is just the way I feel and would make me feel comfortable knowing others agree.

Anyways thanks for contributing to this thread, in whatever very small way you did

 

[RyGuy83]

Unfortunately, the only way I know to test that would be to put both batteries on a scope and test them under load to watch the discharge characteristics over the first few seconds. I guess you could also try them both and see if you could sense a difference. The CDR of each battery doesn't tell me much about how they will discharge during a vape.

Thanks for your time to reply to my question.

Yea the whole reason for my question is I was going to purchase some LG Hb6(pink) or HB4(which exactly are better for pulsing) batteries to see if they hit harder than my VTC5a's. Then I realized I never really vape lower than .15 builds. Which pulls around 26amps from the batteries. Since 5a's are 25amp I assumed there prob wouldnt be much of a difference going with the Hb's even though their 30amp. UNLESS I was vaping even lower than my .15 builds Which would demand more than 26amps. I might just grab one or two of each (hb4/hb6) and see if I notice a difference myself and report back. Was hoping someone could chime in who has already been through this.

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

I use HB6's, unfortunately I don't have vtc5a's to compare them too, however the HB6 is a hard hitter, I use them in parallel with a RDA.

 

[Walee]

Thanks for your time to reply to my question.

Yea the whole reason for my question is I was going to purchase some LG Hb6(pink) or HB4(which exactly are better for pulsing) batteries to see if they hit harder than my VTC5a's. Then I realized I never really vape lower than .15 builds. Which pulls around 26amps from the batteries. Since 5a's are 25amp I assumed there prob wouldnt be much of a difference going with the Hb's even though their 30amp. UNLESS I was vaping even lower than my .15 builds Which would demand more than 26amps. I might just grab one or two of each (hb4/hb6) and see if I notice a difference myself and report back. Was hoping someone could chime in who has already been through this.

Yup, You're on top if it. I just started sticking my toes into the wonderful world of mech mods so I have not had the opportunity to test different batteries. Obviously, with most regulated mods the discharge characteristics of batteries are mitigated. I'm still in the process of doing different builds in different atties for mechs to get that part of the equation all working well. It will probably be awhile before I get to the finer points of maxing out a vape as it were.

 

[Baditude]

Mooch might be the only person who can answer the question, being that he has tested and used both batteries.

 

[bwh79]

Like I said "I just want someone to agree with me". It is just the way I feel and would make me feel comfortable knowing others agree.

Well I agree with your conclusion ("it won't provide a 'harder' hit"), but not your reasoning ("because it's not [much] over the amp limit to begin with"). You seem to think that putting a 30A build on a 30A battery would hit harder than the same build on a 25A battery, and the only reason (you think) this doesn't affect you is because you're not using a 30A build. Do I have that right? And I'm saying that putting a 30A build on a 25A battery wouldn't, necessarily, hit any weaker than the 30A battery. It might, but it depends on the specific cells in question, and is not a matter of their amp ratings. Amp rating is a statement about how hard you can safely drive the battery while still maintaining good performance over time. "How hard it hits" is a factor of how much the voltage drops when a load is applied. These do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

 

[bwh79]

just wanted fellow like minds to agree with me.

If you want to know if this is true for your specific cells you have chosen, ask @Mooch.

If you want to know if this is true as a general rule, it's not.

 

[bwh79]

(depending if you divide by 4 or 4.2)

Safety first. Use 4.2 in your head, but 3.8 is more realistic when you're bragging with your friends about it.

 

[suprtrkr]

I tend to agree with you. The resistance of the coil, coupled with the battery voltage, controls the watts applied and current demanded. Going to a higher continuous discharge rating cell will increase your safety margin, but not increase the watts applied to the coil.

 

[Mooch]

Prob already know the answer to my own question just would like to make sure. Lol

I have been using mech squonks a lot lately like the 528 DS and Armageddon V2. My question is this..

I mainly am vaping in the .15 range, which is around 26-28amp (depending if you divide by 4 or 4.2). Now I ONLY use vtc5a's.... However(main part of question here), if I use something like a Lg pink Hb6 will I notice an increase "harder hit" since they are 32amp?

I am guessing NO since I'm only pulling 26amps from my .15 build and 5a's give me 25a? So I shouldn't notice a harder hit if I use Hb6's right?

Or am I wrong? Hope this wasnt posted in the wrong thread and someone with knowledge in this area of batteries and mechs can help.

Thank you

The continuous current rating is only a very rough indicator of how hard a battery hits. The rating is a cycle life related number and doesn't take voltage under load into consideration.

The VTC5A hits harder but the LG HB series runs cooler. Your priorities will determine which is the "better" battery.

Due to their very low capacity I don't recommend any of the HB's until you're near 40A. You're down near 24A or so.

 

[RyGuy83]

The continuous current rating is only a very rough indicator of how hard a battery hits. The rating is a cycle life related number and doesn't take voltage under load into consideration.

The VTC5A hits harder but the LG HB series runs cooler. Your priorities will determine which is the "better" battery.

Due to their very low capacity I don't recommend any of the HB's until you're near 40A. You're down near 24A or so.

@Mooch
Wow thank you for chiming in, honored to have the one and only answer my question for me. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule I extremely appreciate it. I also am very grateful and thankful for having you in this "community" and all that you do for it. We would truthfully be lost without you Mooch, nothing but respect for you. One last question i have for you if you don't mind. If I build around the .12 Mark (33a roughly) would I still be ok using/pulsing my 5'as or better off with the hb4/6? I know you said not until ya hit the 40a Mark for HB's just wondering though. There still wouldn't be much a gain/benefit right? Thank you

@bwh79
Also thank you so much for your thorough help and tagging Mooch so he could chime in thats very nice of you. Your recent post as well as mooch's made it clear to me. I was right about not having it hit harder just not the way I initially thought. Amps only has to do with the specific load a battery can handle and not "how hard can it hit".

Thank you guys!

 

[Mooch]

@Mooch
Wow thank you for chiming in, honored to have the one and only answer my question for me. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule I extremely appreciate it. I also am very grateful and thankful for having you in this "community" and all that you do for it. We would truthfully be lost without you Mooch, nothing but respect for you. One last question i have for you if you don't mind. If I build around the .12 Mark (33a roughly) would I still be ok using/pulsing my 5'as or better off with the hb4/6? I know you said not until ya hit the 40a Mark for HB's just wondering though. There still wouldn't be much a gain/benefit right? Thank you

@bwh79
Also thank you so much for your thorough help and tagging Mooch so he could chime in thats very nice of you. Your recent post as well as mooch's made it clear to me. I was right about not having it hit harder just not the way I initially thought. Amps only has to do with the specific load a battery can handle and not "how hard can it hit".

Thank you guys!

Calculate the current you will be drawing using that 0.12 ohm build. I'm not able to do Ohm's Law calculations for the over 50 people who ask me each day whether a certain build can be used with a certain battery.

Check my blog for the link to my 18650 ratings table. My max recommended discharge current levels for every one I have tested are there. You can choose the best cell for the way you vape.

If it seems like it's a toss-up between two batteries then buy both and test them. It is a very rare occurrence for one particular battery to be the obvious choice using generic ratings and not testing them all for the way you vape.

 

[bwh79]

If I build around the .12 Mark (33a roughly) would I still be ok using/pulsing my 5'as

4.2 / .12 = 35

Mooch gave the VTC5A's an MVA (max vaping amps) of 30A. MVA is the advised upper limit for safety (as opposed to the CDR of 25A, the advised upper limit for battery longevity) in case of device malfunction or auto-fire. If you're infallibly vigilant, and never experience these events (and don't mind buying new batteries every couple months), you can get away with higher draws in short pulses, but pobody's nerfect.