Real world battery data w/ downloadable spreadsheet, charts, & graphs

[psyki]

I picked up a RX2/3 last weekend and decided to have some fun with the built-in puffs/seconds counter. Behold, a weeks worth of stats. Sorry for the long read, I tried to break it up and use formatting. If you like lots of data and weird rambling conclusions, this is for you. Oh and I vaped at 110W on a dual coil 5 wrap 26/32 clapton staged with 24g on a velocity, clocking in at .11ohms. Your mileage can and will vary with a different setup.

Link to the Google Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fRhpuHQ8xktbx0ii0cTaSTu6AUdbWLJhUkd4HmcJRts/edit#gid=0

First up is an explanation of what you are looking at.

Battery key

• The numbers should be obvious but here is why I named the batteries the way I did (don't judge):
  
  
• Wiggly is my pet name for my gf (Plus I think she looks kind of like Starfire; she has red hair/bangs and green eyes, can fly, and is from outer space) and "boots" is my pet name for asses.
• The batteries are all married although a couple of the sets started out as triplets (in my RX200) and were reduced to pairs. Except for the older HG2s all the sets have been used equally and always charged on my LUC 4 bay.
• Used exclusively in 2 battery mode, obviously.

Left side of chart
This is where I enter the data as read directly from the mod, I use Google Sheets so I can use my phone to update the sheet on the go.

• Date and Time: When the batteries were inserted, noted just for reference.
  
• Battery % and voltage Measured straight from the mod and likely not very accurate, but for the purposes of this chart what is important is the relative value. That is to say, the numbers themselves are less important, what matters is that you consistently use the same measuring device (the mod in this case).
  
• Volts Out: Charge level when I remove the batteries. I have very unscientifically been replacing them when they become noticeable weaker. (I tried not to pay attention to the battery % as I vaped and instead would try to just change them when they "felt" low. Occasionally I changed them when I knew I was leaving the house or getting in my car or would otherwise be somewhere it would be inconvenient to change them.)
  
• Volts In: Charge level when I put the batteries in. Unfortunately I did not start recording the voltage until 10/12 so I simply used 4.2 as the starting voltage.
  
• Puffs/Seconds (total): Puffs and seconds read directly from the mod.

Right side of chart
The values on the right side of the chart (in italic) are computed by the spreadsheet as described below:

• Puffs, Seconds, Seconds / Puff: Simple arithmetic based on the columns on the left side. Numbers are computed when the batteries are changed.
• Puffs / %:

  =Puffs/(100-Battery%)

• Puffs / .01V:
  

  =Puffs/(AVERAGE(Volts In)-(AVERAGE(Volts Out)))/100

Vape stats / Findings
Here is where it gets interesting!

• Looking at the Chart and the Stats graphic it should be unsurprising that the Puffs/% and Puffs/.01V are universally higher for the newer HG2 (Aperture) compared to the HE2 batteries of the same age. The ratio of battery% to .01V should ideally be the same for all batteries, it basically means the mod is correctly computing the % based on the voltage. Remember that the actual % and voltage numbers the mod reports are not what matters, just the relative values.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• The stats for the older HG2s (Marge) are obviously much lower. Should be interesting to see how well the HE2s fare after the same amount of time. Given they are from a reputable manufacturer one might expect the percentage of vape time to decrease at a rate similar to the HG2s.
  
• The daily/session puffs and seconds is irrelevant to any comparison between makes/models of batteries but it's interesting data to have. It's amusing to think about getting all my vaping "done" in one go, just one long 2.5 minute long inhale
  
• Interestingly the average number puffs per day are very close to each other, even after just one week. The stats for the 10th, 11th, and 12th are representative of a normal work day for me (M-F 8-5) but the stats rose slightly on the 13th because I stayed up a couple hours later and spiked pretty high on the Friday the 14th because stayed up pretty late. They are slightly higher on Sunday the 9th presumably because of my differing vaping habits on the weekend, we'll see how this weekend stacks up. The bottom line is I expected these numbers to fluctuate a lot more on a daily basis.
  
  
  
  
  (I multiplied the ratio so it would show up on the chart)
  
• However even on the days the # of puffs spiked, the total # of seconds vaped stayed very consistent! I attribute this to a different in late night vaping habits when I'm sitting at my computer vaping vs taking breaks at work. IE more but shorter puffs. Again, I did not expect this. Apparently the average puff time fluctuates depending on my different vaping scenarios. The chart shows the ratio of puffs/second goes down on the days I stayed up late vaping at my computer.
  
• The voltage for the left side of the battery sled is almost always higher than the right. I have been putting the batteries in the same position every time for consistency purposes and since Mooch himself said it didn't affect battery health to switch them around. After a couple weeks I will switch them around. I imagine the higher readings are simply due to the voltmeter in the mod and not the batteries.
  
• I'm no statistician (at all, someone please correct the following statements), but given that the HG2s have 120% the capacity of the HE2s, and since the Puffs/% and Puffs/.01V are essentially a measurement of the capacity (mAh) of the battery over time, one might have expected the HG2 numbers to approximately 120% higher. The chart below shows the numbers about 150% higher! Then again I'm not testing these to "empty". My very unscientific conclusion is that perhaps the batteries discharge slower on the "top". In other words, they discharge more slowly from 100%-75% and faster from 75%-50%. This might explain why the ratios are off for the lower capacity HE2s since they reach a lower percentage faster.
  My plan going forward is to document the stats when the batteries reach 90%, 80%, 70% etc and check the ratios then.
  
  
  
  
• The last really interesting finding is that the older HG2s (Marge) regularly registered a lower battery % on the mod than all the other batteries but the voltage read about the same! I attribute this to an overall diminished capacity, and the battery meter is somehow correctly computing the percentage remaining. In other words, if I were to somehow test the batteries all the way to "dead" (whatever that means) then the older HG2s would bottom out sooner than an equivalent newer battery.
  
• Lastly I won't go into my own subjective thoughts on the mod or whether I think my usage constitutes a heavy battery turnover. I don't care, I have lots of batteries and I'm able to change them in anticipation of going somewhere. The one thing I will say is that I was more or less expecting to use it in three battery mode because I used the OG RX200 for almost a year, but I realized right away that I really like the look and feel of the RX2/3 in 2 battery mode.
  (obligatory handcheck)
  
  

That's it, folks! Hope you found this even a fraction as interesting as I did Questions? Any other stats you want to see?

 

[ericbnc]

Do you have any cloud blowing pic's?

 

[psyki]

Do you have any cloud blowing pic's?

Seriously? Why? Maybe if I could objectively quantify the cloud production I would add that data to the spreadsheet but with a regulated mod it hits pretty much the same with every fresh battery I have.

 

[sofarsogood]

Seriously? Why? Maybe if I could objectively quantify the cloud production I would add that data to the spreadsheet but with a regulated mod it hits pretty much the same with every fresh battery I have.

Another relevent measurement is how many ml of liquid is actually vaporized. I use only one rda with the same 1.4 ohm build and never change settings and 7 daily ml's is a very consistant number. One LH HG2 just about gets that done at 400 degrees and 30 max watts.

 

[psyki]

Another relevent measurement is how many ml of liquid is actually vaporized. I use only one rda with the same 1.4 ohm build and never change settings and 7 daily ml's is a very consistant number. One LH HG2 just about gets that done at 400 degrees and 30 max watts.

I considered that but I'm not sure how to accurately record that data. If I vaped the same juice all day every day it might be possible but since I DIY I'm always making new juice batches in various quantities and switching throughout the day. I suppose I could weigh my bottles at the beginning and end of each day.

Actually! I could do some testing and weigh the mod before and after dripping to determine how many puffs/seconds it takes to consume a certain amount and then extrapolate from there. Could be interesting!

 

[snork]

What an awesome post, as much for the behavioral data as for the battery data. Please continue.

 

[psyki]

What an awesome post, as much for the behavioral data as for the battery data. Please continue.

Thanks! I work with incredibly large data sets for a living (search engine advertising) and it's kind of fun to generate my own data. I'm resisting the urge to create a SQL database to more easily manipulate it.

 

[sofarsogood]

I considered that but I'm not sure how to accurately record that data. If I vaped the same juice all day every day it might be possible but since I DIY I'm always making new juice batches in various quantities and switching throughout the day. I suppose I could weigh my bottles at the beginning and end of each day.

Actually! I could do some testing and weigh the mod before and after dripping to determine how many puffs/seconds it takes to consume a certain amount and then extrapolate from there. Could be interesting!

Weighing the mod is an interesting approach. You might weigh just the atomizer so the percent difference is greater so may be more accurate. Or top off your dripper bottle and tank in the morning then top off the tank at the end of the day then weigh the bottle at the end. If you are using several bottles and tanks do the same with all of them. Within a week or two you'll know if you're daily consumption is predictable. I don't have a scale yet so I used a syring to draw a few ml's of liquid, from the bottle I usually use, then put a hash mark there then took out some more and made another hash mark, etc. I also counted drops out of my carry bottle into a 3 ml syringe to 2 ml, divided by 2 and then count drops through the day, if I can remember. But counting drops is not so reliable because the size of the drop can vary depending on the angle you hold the bottle. Hash marks on the bottle is more reliable for me.

I think it's important to know how much nic I consume for stockpile estimating. A $50 bottle of 100mg nic has 100,000 mg of nic. From there, once you know your daily nic consumption you can figure out how many days that bottle should last. If you are also mixing and experimenting a lot may be don't add the nic until you're sure you'll keep the batch.

 

[psyki]

Weighing the mod is an interesting approach. You might weigh just the atomizer so the percent difference is greater so may be more accurate. Or top off your dripper bottle and tank in the morning then top off the tank at the end of the day then weigh the bottle at the end. If you are using several bottles and tanks do the same with all of them. Within a week or two you'll know if you're daily consumption is predictable. I don't have a scale yet so I used a syring to draw a few ml's of liquid, from the bottle I usually use, then put a hash mark there then took out some more and made another hash mark, etc. I also counted drops out of my carry bottle into a 3 ml syringe to 2 ml, divided by 2 and then count drops through the day, if I can remember. But counting drops is not so reliable because the size of the drop can vary depending on the angle you hold the bottle. Hash marks on the bottle is more reliable for me.

I think it's important to know how much nic I consume for stockpile estimating. A $50 bottle of 100mg nic has 100,000 mg of nic. From there, once you know your daily nic consumption you can figure out how many days that bottle should last. If you are also mixing and experimenting a lot may be don't add the nic until you're sure you'll keep the batch.

I use an RDA so using a tank to measure won't work, and when I vape for more than a few minutes I can easily drip several times so measuring/weighing anywhere but my desk at home won't work either. The only way it'd be remotely feasible would be to weigh the atty before and after dripping and log the puffs/seconds over several sessions. Once I get enough data and the numbers start to settle down it should be straight forward to calculate the average consumption per puff or second. The good news is I make all my my juice 75/25 so the weight should be identical for each flavor I vape.

Going by weight will be infinitely more accurate than drops or measuring by volume. The cotton doesn't even have to be totally dry either. Just like when you calculate MPG by filling up your car and logging the gallons and miles the tank doesn't need to be empty if you log enough fillups.

I've always wondered how much juice I go through per hour/day/week/month etc but I never seriously determined how to measure it scientifically. I've roughly estimated it to be around 10-20ml per day so this may be very enlightening. Thanks for helping me think it through!

 

[sofarsogood]

I use an RDA so using a tank to measure won't work, and when I vape for more than a few minutes I can easily drip several times so measuring/weighing anywhere but my desk at home won't work either. The only way it'd be remotely feasible would be to weigh the atty before and after dripping and log the puffs/seconds over several sessions. Once I get enough data and the numbers start to settle down it should be straight forward to calculate the average consumption per puff or second. The good news is I make all my my juice 75/25 so the weight should be identical for each flavor I vape.

Going by weight will be infinitely more accurate than drops or measuring by volume. The cotton doesn't even have to be totally dry either. Just like when you calculate MPG by filling up your car and logging the gallons and miles the tank doesn't need to be empty if you log enough fillups.

I've always wondered how much juice I go through per hour/day/week/month etc but I never seriously determined how to measure it scientifically. I've roughly estimated it to be around 10-20ml per day so this may be very enlightening. Thanks for helping me think it through!

Okay, you use an rda. Recharge the rda first thing in the morning then top off the bottle. At the end of the day recharge the rda then weigh the bottle. The difference will be the weight of the liquid you removed. To convert the weight to volume you need to have a weight for your combined liquid. PG and pure nic weight nearly the same as water. VG is 1.26 x the weight of water. The concept is "specific gravity". Water has a value of 1.0 Things that are heavier than water have a specific gravity value larger than 1. Things that weight less then water (should float) have a specific gravity value smaller than 1. Since you have a scale that goes to 1/10th of a gram or better and you use an rda it should be easy to get high precision on liquid consumption day to day. Keep track of weekly totals and you may find your weekly averages are very close together. I'm lucky my daily ml's are consistantly at 7. A week supply is 50 ml or a month is 200 ml. Convenient numbers to work with. Eventually you might be able to figure out how much energy it takes you to vaporie one ml of liquid. That would be child's play with an evolv chip and the escribe software since I believe it will record and store the exact energy consumed in a time period. I use higher ohm coils because I believe they turn energy into vapor more efficiently than low ohm coils. When I have an evolv device I should be able to create some hard evidence for that.

 

[Mooch]

Interesting!
How long did you wait before measuring battery voltage? It takes a couple of hours, minimum, to get the true resting voltage but you can get a decent idea of the voltage after 10-15 minutes.

 

[psyki]

Interesting!
How long did you wait before measuring battery voltage? It takes a couple of hours, minimum, to get the true resting voltage but you can get a decent idea of the voltage after 10-15 minutes.

Thanks! I didn't know that about the battery voltage but that makes sense, especially if they are warm. Unfortunately it's been random, sometimes I've changed them while vaping and other times after a several hour break.

There hasn't seemed to be a large delta V changing them hot or not. What I find most interesting is that the oldest batteries I have measure relatively close vokts out compared to the others but the battery percentage is much lower. What do you make of that? My unscientific conclusions are in the OP.

 

[Mooch]

Thanks! I didn't know that about the battery voltage but that makes sense, especially if they are warm. Unfortunately it's been random, sometimes I've changed them while vaping and other times after a several hour break.

There hasn't seemed to be a large delta V changing them hot or not. What I find most interesting is that the oldest batteries I have measure relatively close vokts out compared to the others but the battery percentage is much lower. What do you make of that? My unscientific conclusions are in the OP.

I see about a 0.08V difference between a slowly discharged battery just out of the discharger and its resting voltage about 2 hours later. It's up to 0.4V for a battery discharged at high current levels.

I read the OP but I don't think I understand what you're referring to. Are you saying that the voltages just after a discharge are all about the same for the older batteries? And that the battery percentage displayed when they hit the weak battery point are lower then the newer batteries?

So much of that is tied to the internal resistance of the batteries, the cutoff voltage, voltage sampling rate, and the software and hardware filtering of the battery voltage readings. What's actually going on can be well hidden.

 

[psyki]

I see about a 0.08V difference between a slowly discharged battery just out of the discharger and its resting voltage about 2 hours later. It's up to 0.4V for a battery discharged at high current levels.

I read the OP but I don't think I understand what you're referring to. Are you saying that the voltages just after a discharge are all about the same for the older batteries? And that the battery percentage displayed when they hit the weak battery point are lower then the newer batteries?

So much of that is tied to the internal resistance of the batteries, the cutoff voltage, voltage sampling rate, and the software and hardware filtering of the battery voltage readings. What's actually going on can be well hidden.

Here is what I meant:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Not only did the older HG2s produce less puffs and seconds, it seems that while the average voltage was relative similar to the other batteries, the battery % was noticeably lower. This chart doesn't show it as well as I thought it would but if you look at a few key dates on the main chart (10/9, 10/11, 10/15), you can see the voltage was close to the voltage of the rest of the batteries but the battery % was significantly lower.

My theory was that the "floor" or capacity of these batteries has been reduced. They are behaving more like the HE2s than the other set of HG2s I have.

 

[Mooch]

As batteries age their capacity decreases and their internal resistance increases.

The capacity loss reduces their run time directly. The increased internal resistance increases the voltage sag you see from them, effectively decreasing their run time even further.

This can increase the percentage level at which you get a weak battery warning and decrease the overall puff count you'd get.

 

[psyki]

As batteries age their capacity decreases and their internal resistance increases.

The capacity loss reduces their run time directly. The increased internal resistance increases the voltage sag you see from them, effectively decreasing their run time even further.

This can increase the percentage level at which you get a weak battery warning and decrease the overall puff count you'd get.

I think most of us would have thought that about the diminished capacity intuitively but it's cool to see the actual numbers. I'm looking forward to seeing the performance of the HE2s when they're the same age as the older HG2s. Theoretically their performance degradation should mirror that of the HG2s.

 

[Mooch]

I think most of us would have thought that about the diminished capacity intuitively but it's cool to see the actual numbers. I'm looking forward to seeing the performance of the HE2s when they're the same age as the older HG2s. Theoretically their performance degradation should mirror that of the HG2s.

That depends a lot on the chemistry and construction of the cell but probably similar. Looking forward to your results!