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Recommendations Needed: Nic Salts, Sweet-N-Sour

Discussion in 'General E-Liquid Discussion' started by Opinionated, Mar 1, 2019.

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  1. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    Hello.

    Id like to purchase a bottle of nicotine salts (already made and manufactured) for my son (his age is over 30 for those who don't know me..) whose flavor profile leans more toward sour than sweet.

    He will enjoy an apple pie flavor so long as it's not overly sweet, more of a natural or true pie taste, so he doesn't mind sweet, he just prefers to avoid any cloying sweetness inherent in many manufactured juices today.

    He also doesn't like tobacco flavors either. A good green apple would be fine with him I'm sure.. He really likes those sour candies kids used to eat back in the early 90's and e juices that remind him of them.

    I'm unsure of the premium salt industry today, I've only even heard of one or two of these brands, so I'm hoping for some rrecommendations from people who buy (or have bought) store-bought ejuice..

    (needing 50mg salts as I'm giving my son this Smok Nord and would like to simply make a purchase of ejuice and not have to worry about steeping time from something I mixed)

    I had been thinking of that dinner lady lemon tart eliquid, but when I read him the description he said it didn't really sound good so I'm lost on what direction to take.. and I just want to buy something he'll like.
     
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  2. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    Bumping in the hopes someone knows something about store bought ejuice..

    Maybe everyone was out drinking last night..
     
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  3. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Naked 100 salts gets mentioned often as being good, lot of flavor profiles available with them. The sour straws also come in salts but can't remember the brand name.
     
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  4. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Bazooka sour straws
     
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  5. DeloresRose

    DeloresRose Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Apr 25, 2014
    toledo ohio
    I should be so lucky.

    I can’t help with commercial juice because I diy mostly. ( I did just buy some juice but nothing that will work for your son)

    Since you mix, you could try one of the tart fruit flavors. They don’t need steeping, really. Or, you can sometimes make a bakery flavor like apple pie and leave the sweeteners out. But I find, as real pie is inherently sweet, trying to make it not sweet does not give acceptable results.

    If you have any INW flavors I’d start there. Fairly realistic, less candy like.

    Sour seems to be really elusive in vape flavors.
     
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  6. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    I mixed up a bottle of juice for him but as it requires steeping I was hoping to make a simple purchase for immediate vaping.

    Was going for quick ... lol
     
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  7. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    Okay I'll look into that brand... thanks.

    I'll see about sour straws flavor too.. that sounds like a flavor he would appreciate..
     
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  8. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    My information is that protonated nic juices don’t benefit much from steeping anyway. This information may or may not be any good.

    I’d love to know how true/not true it is.

    The trick as I understand it of this moment, is to get a juice where the nic is protonated with benzoic acid. ( nicotine benzoate) This is the least “spiky” of the many salts tested, and the one most tested for safety it appears right now. The problem as I understand is that it can be protonated by using almost any acid at all and each produces a slightly different compound.

    What really chaps my shorts is there are indications that BT likely did all this testing years ago but is not releasing it because they apparently do their research by collecting preliminary findings and then killing the study making the findings unofficial though still fairly accurate.
     
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  9. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    The salts I use are from Nude Nicotine.

    I don't know if they are protonated or not.
     
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  10. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    All nic salts are protonated nicotine. The question is what acid they are protonated with.
     
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  11. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    Well I shipped the pod mod and the salts I made yesterday, I may end up giving up on finding store bought juice for him, make him either try the mod with what I made for him or let him buy his own store bought juice. ..

    I just hate giving something without making sure everything is with it. .

    But yeah, I used some NN salts in his ejuice so we may find out if that affects his steep-time or not.

    I don't use nicotine at all any more and my steep times have been long.. but I've thought it was my taste buds going weird.
     
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  12. DeloresRose

    DeloresRose Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Apr 25, 2014
    toledo ohio
    I understand that. But to be quicker than shake n vape, you’d have to go B&M. That’s the iffiest source for juice I can think of, lol. Cheap juice ships pretty fast, got mine in four days.

    My opinion, fruits are maybe a bit better a couple days in, but I haven’t met one I can’t vape right away - except ones with alcohol.
     
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  13. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    I just don't want to buy new flavors etc and wait for them to ship to me, then try out new recipes and so forth is what I was attempting to express.

    Most of the things I have are for more complex juices as that is my personal preference. That is why steeping is required for most of my recipes.

    I could try finding a Shake and Vape recipe for flavors (and brands) I have on hand, but most of what I can find are laden with sweet..

    With all new recipes you have to try them out and the first few you run into may be poor...

    All the above turns into a hassle when I can buy something already tested and so forth.

    But your right, unknown brands, unknown flavors... all turns into a mess of confusion that is probably worse than trying to mix something..

    I think I'll just let my son figure out what he'd like to vape, and he can buy it himself. I just don't like giving things that are incomplete, I am finicky I suppose.. lol
     
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  14. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    My current working supposition (which is more like an idea or rumor than even a theory) is that unprotonated nic will protonate with just about any acidic chemical to at least some degree, and this is at least partially responsible for the flavor change in steeping. If liquids without nicotine in them (which is a control set that bluntly hadn’t occurred to me but i find highly interesting) DO steep, then it is at least partially incorrect. Possibly entirely incorrect. If they don’t step similarly then we have all been vaping at least a certain amount of randomly protonated nic salts for a long time now. At least those of us that steep our nic juice.

    Again though this is just some random dude with no appropriate training thinking out loud.

    I do wish we had more and better research we could see. BT apparently has very private research data that can be used to effectively simulate “new” research that “happens” to be to their advantage, which makes any research they have a finger on automatically suspect. I find the stuff most useful personally for trying to figure out what BT thinks it’s interests are at any given time. This is one reason I think BT is, at least till recently, vastly more vastly more anti vaping than they publicly claim to be.
     
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  15. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    Well your theory may be at least partially correct.

    The recipes I had and created were fine - until I stopped using nicotine.

    Then everything started tasting bad and I've been revamping/revising every recipe to make it palatable.

    That said, I don't know how much of that is me personally, how much is the nicotine itself.

    The reason being is even store bought juices that I once loved, I can no longer stand... it's so weird.

    I decided to look up studies on how nicotine alone (not cigarettes/smoking but actual nicotine by itself) affects taste buds, and there was research on mice that shows nicotine decreases the size of the taste bud cells, so the conclusion was that, this reduction in cell size must necessarily affect taste negatively.

    Of course this was one study, and since stopping all nicotine use in the kitchen (I love to cook) with regular food that I make the taste hasn't changed, but I must say is greatly enhanced. Things I've been cooking that I love, I enjoy the taste even more now.

    So it seems my taste is just enhanced verses actually changed. So it might be that notes which once were muted back notes, are instead 'in your face', so I'm having to change percentages and recipes overall..

    So since I'm dealing with all this, I dont know or can't tell to what extent nicotine itself might have on the steeping process.

    I am giving recipes more time though - and it seems to help somewhat, although at this point it could just be in my head.. this whole tasting thing and all my recipes are just an overall mess right now.. lol
     
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  16. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    I made the mistake of doing some sft without nic when I first started mixing and most did not taste the same when I started using them in mixes. Pita
     
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  17. Ian Michasiw

    Ian Michasiw Full Member

    Nov 4, 2018
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  18. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Madtown was a go to for me when I still liked sweet juices and oddball nic levels. Their fruits are pretty good.
     
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  19. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    cool thank you..
     
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