Reliable Harvard Scientists Say E-Cig Flavors Can Cause "Popcorn Lung"

[LoveVanilla]

Reliable Harvard Scientists Say E-Cig Flavors Can Cause "Popcorn Lung"

http://gizmodo.com/reliable-harvard-scientists- [broken_link]
say-e-cig-flavors-can-cause-1746896400

No one should be surprised. The only surprise to me is that the [removed] putting this [removed] in our juices have not already been sued into poverty and then sent to prison where they properly belong.

 

[Katya]

Already addressed by Dr. F...

A new study finds diacetyl in e-cigarettes but exaggerates risks and fails to discuss about smoking

Although I agree that we should know if e-liquids contain diacetyl and acetyl propionyl, I must note that the study has missed some very important points. One is the assessment of the levels found in their samples. The levels presented in Figure 2 are quite low, much lower that what we found in our study. In many cases, levels of these compounds are absolutely minimal, and it is NOT expected to raise any concerns about human health effects. Additionaly, the authors FAILED to mention the presence of these compounds in tobacco cigarette smoke. This omission creates the impression that e-cigarettes are exposing users to a new chemical hazard,

 

[EBates]

I can only hope that these Prostitutes realize the Damage they are doing to the medical profession. Between these so called 'reliable scientists' and the BP barrage of drug commercials, the once respected title of Doctor or Scientist are now, in my mind at least, more on the line a street corner Prostitute.
Money Talks, Thank You Obamanation.

 

[Jman8]

I can only hope that these Prostitutes realize the Damage they are doing to the medical profession. Between these so called 'reliable scientists' and the BP barrage of drug commercials, the once respected title of Doctor or Scientist are now, in my mind at least, more on the line a street corner Prostitute.
Money Talks, Thank You Obamanation.

It's like, you (pseudo scientists) want people to believe in 'data' on climate change after this sort of debacle? Wow, you must think laypeople are incredibly naive.

 

[Painter_]

What makes Harvard researchers so reliable that it is stated in the headline? I thought that Harvard was known as a business school...

 

[Mazinny]

What makes Harvard researchers so reliable that it is stated in the headline? I thought that Harvard was known as a business school...

Their medical school is ranked no 1 in the country as well ( at least according to this list ) :

Best Medical Schools | Research Rankings | Top Medical Schools for Research | US News Best Graduate Schools

I don't know how reliable this particular study and its authors are though !

 

[sofarsogood]

If the suspect chemicals were reduced to zero the complainers would move on to other objections ad nauseum. Their solution to every concern is to ban ecigs. I think they are figuring out that taxing them is problematic.

This will blow over like all the other scare reports for one simple reason. Nobody is getting sick. Where are the reports of any doctors any where treating any illnesses caused by using ecigs? If that's not good enough mix at home.

 

[LoveVanilla]

There is NO more reason for having diketones in our juices than there is for having lead in paint. It shouldn't be there. And those doing so should be called out. At a bare minimum, diketones should be used only with full and complete disclosure to customers. Any other usage is unacceptable -- and criminal.

 

[pennysmalls]

NM..........

 

[Kent C]

What makes Harvard researchers so reliable that it is stated in the headline? I thought that Harvard was known as a business school...

Even it's "business school" is a joke. Harvard is the leading Leftist school in the country - therefore all the Leftist media gives it credence. If you're looking for a gov't job - it's nice to have that one your résumé. When gov't wants their ideas to sound 'reliable' to people who read the NYT, they go there. Or any of the ivy league schools or some on the west coast or University of Mich. in the mid-west.

 

[skoony]

There is NO more reason for having diketones in our juices than there is for having lead in paint. It shouldn't be there. And those doing so should be called out. At a bare minimum, diketones should be used only with full and complete disclosure to customers. Any other usage is unacceptable -- and criminal.

There is every reason for diketones to be there. Buttery flavors. As @pennysmalls pointed out in a post
in another thread here on the forum, one would have to vape for a million and a half years to be at risk
from diketones in the amounts we use.
"The study notes that the lowest level of exposure at which popcorn lung was detected in workers working for 8 hours per day was 0.2ppm. According to the converter at http://www.unitconversion.org/... I believe that works out to 200 mcg/Liter. that's 200,000 micrograms per cubic meter. At about one meter average working air intake per hour, it was found that workers inhaling 1,600,000 micrograms of diacetyl every day for years began developing popcorn lung.

As opposed to this concern about Vapers inhaling about 10 micrograms.

Actually, while Dr. Siegel didn't go into the specifics of it, if we reasonably dropped the weird high-level outlier of 238 micrograms supposedly measured for the kid-loving-candy-flavored "Peach Schnapps" variety (Golly but those kidz DO luv their Schnapps, now don't they?) the average exposure drops to below FIVE micrograms.

So the ordinary vaper of these weird flavored fluids would have to sit around vaping for roughly 160,000 days (i.e. FOUR HUNDRED AND THIRTY-EIGHT **YEARS**) to get just a one day equivalent exposure to the workers who need to work for years on end to get the dreaded popcorn lung. How many years? It's not clear what the minimum might be, but from the information supplied let's *guess* we're talking about popcorn workers generally working at least ten years before they're buttered up and put away.

So how many days of e-cigging would it take for e-ciggers to get that sort of nasty worker dose? 160,000 x 10yrs x 300 workdays per year =

584,000,000 days of puffing away on an ecig (about one and a half million years) before the typical e-cigger might get popcorn lung."
Regards
mike

 

[AzPlumber]

There is NO more reason for having diketones in our juices than there is for having lead in paint.

I doubt lead has a creamy buttery flavor, so there's that.

It shouldn't be there. And those doing so should be called out. At a bare minimum, diketones should be used only with full and complete disclosure to customers. Any other usage is unacceptable -- and criminal.

If your basing this on industrial exposure, you probably don't want to look into other flavorings in an industrial setting, say for example Vanillin.

 

[Coldrake]

For your perusal....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/business/03medschool.html?_r=2

 

[cigarbabe]

I will continue to use all the flavors that I love including those that have a creamy buttery composition {Creme Brulee' etc. } secure in the knowledge that
I've been vaping more than 5 + years without a problem related to diacetyl or any other by product of using flavorings.
This is just another way to scaremonger vapers and those who'd like to try vaping.
Honestly vapers should know better.......
C.B.

 

[pennysmalls]

Am I slow and just now catching up or has no one else heard this part of the Harvard story yet?

"So here’s something interesting. Before an experiment begins the test equipment has to be validated, to make sure it’s working properly. The Harvard team tested theirs seven times without an e-cig installed, just sucking in clean air, and analysed the filters as normal (new filters were used for each test). On four of those seven test runs diacetyl, acetoin or AP was detected – and the diacetyl level was higher than in 13 of the e-cigarettes! That’s so amazing that I need to say it again; a third of the “dangerous” diacetyl-containing e-cigs contained less diacetyl than a sample of fresh air."

Say what?? How can that be?

Much ado about nothing; Harvard's diacetyl scare - Ecigs Plaza

 

[Alien Traveler]

I will continue to use all the flavors that I love including those that have a creamy buttery composition {Creme Brulee' etc. } secure in the knowledge that
I've been vaping more than 5 + years without a problem related to diacetyl or any other by product of using flavorings.
This is just another way to scaremonger vapers and those who'd like to try vaping.
Honestly vapers should know better.......
C.B.

Thanks for testing.

 

[MaxwellPink]

What makes Harvard researchers so reliable that it is stated in the headline? I thought that Harvard was known as a business school...

That have a medical section, hence the insurance company. that said I'd be more swayed by a study by MIT. At least you know a good portion of the students there have some idea about how vaping works - may have even built their own mods.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Am I slow and just now catching up or has no one else heard this part of the Harvard story yet?

"So here’s something interesting. Before an experiment begins the test equipment has to be validated, to make sure it’s working properly. The Harvard team tested theirs seven times without an e-cig installed, just sucking in clean air, and analysed the filters as normal (new filters were used for each test). On four of those seven test runs diacetyl, acetoin or AP was detected – and the diacetyl level was higher than in 13 of the e-cigarettes! That’s so amazing that I need to say it again; a third of the “dangerous” diacetyl-containing e-cigs contained less diacetyl than a sample of fresh air."

Say what?? How can that be?

Much ado about nothing; Harvard's diacetyl scare - Ecigs Plaza

Excuse me, but this is a bullmanure from too enthusiastic vaping site, written by somebody who can read some sentences but cannot understand a paragraph as a whole.
Blank analysis was performed to correct detection limit. It means it was accepted as no detection level.

It is too disturbing to have so much dumb "vaping" sites. Thanks to them we, vapers, could be seen as a bunch of stupid conspiracy theorists.

 

[pennysmalls]

Excuse me, but this is a bullmanure from too enthusiastic vaping site, written by somebody who can read some sentences but cannot understand a paragraph as a whole.
Blank analysis was performed to correct detection limit. It means it was accepted as no detection level.

It is too disturbing to have so much dumb "vaping" sites. Thanks to them we, vapers, could be seen as a bunch of stupid conspiracy theorists.

Ok, so if I'm understanding you correctly, the test runs were done to "zero out" the machines "reader" so that when the tests were done the reader was reading correctly? And those test runs that detected the DA and AP were just the machines reader needing to be zeroed out? Am I close?

 

[Alien Traveler]

Ok, so if I'm understanding you correctly, the test runs were done to "zero out" the machines "reader" so that when the tests were done the reader was reading correctly? And those test runs that detected the DA and AP were just the machines reader needing to be zeroed out? Am I close?

You are pretty close.