Samsung INR 18650 2500mAh 25R - Batteries fast discharge.

[ParadoxicalBrainDmg]

This is my first post, so I am sorry about the wall of text - (This was originally a reddit post.)

Last week I bought 2 of these batteries from Ebay, expecting to get at least 20 hours out of them; possibly even a day or more. From what I had researched about these batteries before purchase, people were getting a day or more out of them at anywhere from 30-100 Watts.

Now, the charger I'm using is an Intellicharger i4, which only charges at 0.35A. These batteries are recommended to be charged at a minimum of 0.5A, or 0.75-1.0A for faster charging times. Charging them at only 0.35A should just mean the duration time for charging is longer. This should not mean it will affect the battery life, correct?

I doubt these batteries are fake, because all of the reviews of the exact same batteries from my seller are positive - no one has any issues with them regarding battery life, etc.

I vape at 21.5 Watts - my device/coil can handle up to 30, but I like to use lower wattage to conserve the coil's lifespan. The coil is 0.5 Ohms. The batteries took about 6+ hours to charge in the intellicharger last night. I got about 14 hours out of one of them. However, today both batteries have lasted only 3-4 hours - this isn't making any sense to me.

Could it be that the charger not putting out enough amperage to charge these batteries? Could it be my device? (It's not great, it's a clone of the K-box, but works well enough.) Does using lower ohm coils draw more from the batteries?
If other people are getting a day, 2 days, or even more ridiculous times out of these batteries at 30-100 Watts, even sometimes using similar Ohms as I am -- how the hell am I only getting half, or less than half of that battery usage time using only 21 Watts?

I am not adept in my knowledge of Amps/batteries and all of that, I just know the basics, so I'm sorry if this information isn't accurate enough. But I'd appreciate any answers you might have.

One last thing: I have no way to check the voltage on these batteries, as my device only shows battery-bar levels of charge, no indication of the current volts.

 

[CumulusCreator]

This is my first post, so I am sorry about the wall of text - (This was originally a reddit post.)

Last week I bought 2 of these batteries from Ebay, expecting to get at least 20 hours out of them; possibly even a day or more. From what I had researched about these batteries before purchase, people were getting a day or more out of them at anywhere from 30-100 Watts.

Now, the charger I'm using is an Intellicharger i4, which only charges at 0.35A. These batteries are recommended to be charged at a minimum of 0.5A, or 0.75-1.0A for faster charging times. Charging them at only 0.35A should just mean the duration time for charging is longer. This should not mean it will affect the battery life, correct?

I doubt these batteries are fake, because all of the reviews of the exact same batteries from my seller are positive - no one has any issues with them regarding battery life, etc.

I vape at 21.5 Watts - my device/coil can handle up to 30, but I like to use lower wattage to conserve the coil's lifespan. The coil is 0.5 Ohms. The batteries took about 6+ hours to charge in the intellicharger last night. I got about 14 hours out of one of them. However, today both batteries have lasted only 3-4 hours - this isn't making any sense to me.

Could it be that the charger not putting out enough amperage to charge these batteries? Could it be my device? (It's not great, it's a clone of the K-box, but works well enough.) Does using lower ohm coils draw more from the batteries?
If other people are getting a day, 2 days, or even more ridiculous times out of these batteries at 30-100 Watts, even sometimes using similar Ohms as I am -- how the hell am I only getting half, or less than half of that battery usage time using only 21 Watts?

I am not adept in my knowledge of Amps/batteries and all of that, I just know the basics, so I'm sorry if this information isn't accurate enough. But I'd appreciate any answers you might have.

One last thing: I have no way to check the voltage on these batteries, as my device only shows battery-bar levels of charge, no indication of the current volts.

I believe it is due to the fact that your charger is not charging your batteries with enough juice as they are designed to be charged with. In other words, you should get a new charger that charges batteries at higher amperage. This is my opinion, some other people may have a differing opinion.

 

[ParadoxicalBrainDmg]

I believe it is due to the fact that your charger is not charging your batteries with enough juice as they are designed to be charged with. In other words, you should get a new charger that charges batteries at higher amperage. This is my opinion, some other people may have a differing opinion.

Thank you for a fast reply! That was my first assumption, too. However from other research, I have been told that charging batteries like these at a lower amperage will simply mean it takes longer to charge - not that it won't be charging the batteries fully.
However, what you're describing seems to be the case, I'll look into a higher output charger.
Thanks again for the input.

 

[Tonee N]

Regardless of the reviews you have read from others that have bought these same batteries from on Ebay, Ebay is NOT the place to buy batteries.
Find a reputable company that sells them(i.e Liionwholesale)
DO NOT go cheap on batteries or your device. The Nitecore charger is a good product which I have personally owned in the past.
If you are using a cloned device DUMP IT and buy an authentic device from a reputable vendor or local B&M.(i.e VapeNW, VaporDNA, Eightvape, MVS, etc)
The combination of rewrapped batteries and a cloned device is a recipe for disaster.

I'm not trying to knock you down by any means, just need and want you to vape safe.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[ParadoxicalBrainDmg]

Regardless of the reviews you have read from others that have bought these same batteries from on Ebay, Ebay is NOT the place to buy batteries.
Find a reputable company that sells them(i.e Liionwholesale)
DO NOT go cheap on batteries or your device. The Nitecore charger is a good product which I have personally owned in the past.
If you are using a cloned device DUMP IT and buy an authentic device from a reputable vendor or local B&M.(i.e VapeNW, VaporDNA, Eightvape, MVS, etc)
The combination of rewrapped batteries and a cloned device is a recipe for disaster.

I'm not trying to knock you down by any means, just need and want you to vape safe.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

I understand, that is very good advice, thank you.
The batteries were by no means cheap, but I'll keep finding a more reliable device in mind, and hopefully sort out the battery issue in the meantime.

 

[CumulusCreator]

Oops, I did not catch the fact that you bought your batteries from eBay.

To second that, I buy my batteries from Illumn which is one of the trusted vendors that ECF forum member Mooch recommends. Battery Mooch is a great source for learning as much as you can about batteries.

I agree, ebay is not the place to buy batteries, it is the single most important component of the mod and overall affects the safety of the user while utilizing a mod. Only buy batteries from reputable sources. Nitecore is a great brand, but you may have that charger in the wrong mode for the type of batteries you are charging. If I am not mistaken those chargers have several charge mode methods so I would look over those settings and make sure they are good.

As far as previous buyers comments on ebay. Let's say the seller is reputable and you trust them....the batteries you received may have been discharged below 2V at some point and recharged to nominal voltage due to the batteries you received being left in storage or inventory for a long period of time etc...there are several factors that can affect the longevity of a battery...but there is absolutely no gurantee that those batteries you bought on ebay are genuine...or if they are genuine, that they are safe due to batteries discharging below 2V erodes the inner core of the battery.

 

[ParadoxicalBrainDmg]

Oops, I did not catch the fact that you bought your batteries from eBay.

To second that, I buy my batteries from Illumn which is one of the trusted vendors that ECF forum member Mooch recommends. Battery Mooch is a great source for learning as much as you can about batteries.

I agree, ebay is not the place to buy batteries, it is the single most important component of the mod and overall affects the safety of the user while utilizing a mod. Only buy batteries from reputable sources. Nitecore is a great brand, but you may have that charger in the wrong mode for the type of batteries you are charging. If I am not mistaken those chargers have several charge mode methods so I would look over those settings and make sure they are good.

As far as previous buyers comments on ebay. Let's say the seller is reputable and you trust them....the batteries you received may have been discharged below 2V at some point and recharged to nominal voltage due to the batteries you received being left in storage or inventory for a long period of time etc...there are several factors that can affect the longevity of a battery...but there is absolutely no gurantee that those batteries you bought on ebay are genuine...or if they are genuine, that they are safe due to batteries discharging below 2V erodes the inner core of the battery.

I see what you're saying, but I don't believe there are any settings/modes for my particular charger.
I'm from Australia, so perhaps your 'nitecore' brand is the American version of the intellicharger?
There are definitely no modes on the i4 I own.

This is all very helpful, though, I have much to take into consideration from this.
The only reason I've never bought genuine products thus far is because they can be very pricey in Australia, especially if bought overseas; the devices we have locally that are genuine are extremely overpriced for their power capabilities, tanks, etc. At least from what I've found.
But, I'll figure it out. (Everyone here replies fast and provides concise information, this is a great opening first impression for me of e-cigarette forums.)

(Edit): I was mistaken, my charger is a nitecore; it definitely does not have modes/settings, though.

 

[Tonee N]

Here is the Australian ECF forum, they might be able to help you with buying in country and from where.
Hth
Australia - New Zealand Forum

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[G-Fog]

Hi @ParadoxicalBrainDmg I'm in NZ and don't find the vendors here to be wildly expensive. Samsung 25r's can be had for nz$7.90. What have you been paying?

 

[ParadoxicalBrainDmg]

Hi @ParadoxicalBrainDmg I'm in NZ and don't find the vendors here to be wildly expensive. Samsung 25r's can be had for nz$7.90. What have you been paying?

It is more so the devices that are expensive - batteries are decently priced; our town has a smoke-mart with newly brought in vape devices. $60.00 for a 900mAh, <10 watt, 2.5ml King-something-a-rather branded device. Ridiculous, right? Too bad for new vapers who might end up paying that much for a sub-par device. But I would ship from other states in Australia, of course. That's just an unfortunate example.

I payed $17.99 for the two Samsung 25R's.
But like a previous reply said, I should find a vendor and disregard Ebay completely.
That is a good price you're getting for the 25R's, perhaps I just haven't been looking in the right places for quality vendors. Will have to do some hunting around.

 

[ParadoxicalBrainDmg]

Here is the Australian ECF forum, they might be able to help you with buying in country and from where.
Hth
Australia - New Zealand Forum

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Thank you for the suggestion, I hadn't stumbled onto the Aussie/NZ forums yet.

 

[G-Fog]

For comparison purposes have a look at www.thevapingkiwi.co.nz
He seems to be the cheapest in NZ for genuine products, it will give you an idea at least.

 

[djsvapour]

The situation in Australia is patchy, going on desperate.

Unfortunately, the situation is compounded by greedy US/UK brands price-gouging Australians on import/export including the hardware, which isn't really the problem. The problem is the laws on Nicotine.

These 'franchise' brands are now my #1 to boycott brands. Amazing how they like (these worldwide brands) to distance themselves from selling in other markets but expect us all to buy from them in our own countries. I say NO! and every last penny/cent they don't get from me and my fellow vapers is money they are losing because of their contemptuous greed.

As for batteries.

Nobody gets more than 1 day vaping at higher power with 1 x 18650 unless they are very restrained. I can get a day at 14w. Stories of 2 days vaping at 30, 40, 50 watts are either exaggerated or simply there are folk who only vape once every few hours (or something)...

As far as I know, charging slowly just takes longer.
Batteries do get worse quite quickly (months not years) in truth.

You should certainly check out Aussie Vapers Forum.

 

[ParadoxicalBrainDmg]

I've never bought genuine vape products before, so some of those prices are a little daunting @G-Fog But I think it can be manageable, and at least it's a start. I'll do anything to avoid buying from FastTech again.
Thank you all for the information, everyone, this is more help than I was expecting - I'll leave this post at that.

 

[djsvapour]

I'll do anything to avoid buying from FastTech again.

Most of my stuff is from Fasttech. You just have to know what to buy and not to buy.
Luckily, delivery is fast to the UK with the e-packet option (7-10 days) and authenticity is not an issue if you choose authentic products. The rest is gambling on a risky scale.

 

[stols001]

You really want reputable vendors for your batteries. I don't think that charging them slower is necessarily going to affect battery life, but are you certain they were fully charged when you removed them? If your charger is severely underpowered, I could see that being a problem. Also, charging batteries OVERNIGHT isn't really recommended. I am a deep sleeper and wouldn't wake up if my batteries decided to have a fit in my charger....Not to mention the fact that they may be rewraps.

In your situation, however, I'm a little confused why you wouldn't want to use fasttech over e-bay? At least fasttech is totally upfront about whether something is genuine or a clone, unlike ebay which often sells products as originals when they aren't. Yes, time of arrival can sometimes be an issue. Hopefully the Aus and NZ forums can help you with battery suppliers, so you can get decent batteries and chargers. A mod that's a clone if it's decently made would be less of an issue than fake batteries and an underpowered charger. Maybe work on the battery situation first, then work on buying a genuine mod. You could find something that suits your needs rather cheaply on fasttech or 3F or one of those sites.

Best of luck!

Anna

 

[Topwater Elvis]

At 21.5w a 2500mah 20a CDR cell will net approximately 23 minutes of 'runtime'.

3 - 4 hours might be normal if you chain vape.
10 hours might be normal if you take a couple dozen hits per hour.
20 hours? maybe a dozen vapes per hour.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Almost all of my devices are single 18650 mods, and there are three (sometimes four) in my daily rotation. I have 16 of the 25R's and four LG HE2's (a close competitor to the 25R). On average, I'll get 1-1/12 days out of a single charge. I have an Efest Luc 2-bay charger and usually stick to 0.5 amp when charging.

A low amp charge is actually good for the battery life (as measured in number of charge cycles), for the same reasons why a slow, lower temp discharge is better. I will sometimes stray above 40 Watts on my devices, but I'm typically in the 35 Watt range.

Long story short: Have a deep battery rotation, vape more than one device at the lowest wattage you can, charge gently and your batteries will thank you by lasting longer.

 

[BrotherBob]

I vape at 21.5 Watts - my device/coil can handle up to 30, but I like to use lower wattage to conserve the coil's lifespan. The coil is 0.5 Ohms. The batteries took about 6+ hours to charge in the intellicharger last night. I got about 14 hours out of one of them. However, today both batteries have lasted only 3-4 hours - this isn't making any sense to me.

Welcome and glad you joined.
I have provided a little more information which might help choosing/evaluating batteries.
Might like to read:
18650 Battery Buying Guide for Vapor Users – Wake and Vape Blog
(9) Battery Basics for Mods; the Ultimate Battery Guide | E-Cigarette Forum
Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum
Battery Safety: Will You Marry Me? - Mt Baker Vapor
A Guide to Safe Charging - The Complete Guide to E-Cig Safety
Vaping 101: Battery Safety