Smokteck Kick

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Cannon Fodder

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Nov 21, 2013
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Hi,

Sorry, it seems that I am only allowed to post here.

I have a smoktech kick in a silver bullet. When the battery wears down I do not get a stutter vape, just a drop off in the vape until I get nothing. The battery is anywhere between 2.9 and 3.5 volts. When I put in a new battery I get a slight burnt taste, as though the power is set a tad too high. The kick is having an effect, if I turn it all the way down I get nothing, if i turn it all the way up I get a massive burnt taste. Is this normal? Should I upgrade to an evolve kick? It just doesn't seem to be as consistent as it should be. If have Noalaxed the kick and the inside of the tube and threads, it has ameliorated the issued somewhat, but it has not eliminated it.

Thanks,

Derek
 

Credo

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Doesn't sound normal to me. Have you any other mods you can test it with?

What is the exact type of battery you're using? With a kick it really needs to be a good IMR high drain safe chemistry battery.

I've Evolv Kick 1, Evolv Kick 2, as well as Artisan Crown V2 units. All three are solid, consistent, and stable.

I don't 'always' get a 'stutter vape' near the end of the charge either, and the exact voltage they cease to work is not always the same (I.E. sometimes they cut off at 3.2v, sometimes 3.0v, sometimes even 2.9v or so...etc)...many things can have a bearing on this since the cut off is probably based on the 'under load' reading (resistance of atty, setting of the kick unit, etc.).

Upgrading to a Kick 2 will offer a bit more power, as well as the ability to drop down to as low as 0.5 Ohms on your atties (I don't advise sub ohm rigs unless you have a true high amp IMR battery and take similar precautions with battery care as you would running unregulated batteries).

With a Crown in VW mode, you'll get a similar power range to the Kick 1 (5 - 10 watts), or the SmokTech or Segelie clones.

A Crown in VV mode (3.5v - 5.5v), with a good hot IMR high drain battery and the right atty you could even get results well past 15 watts.

A crown can be adjusted without opening the mod and turning a pot. It is adjusted with a series of presses and holds on your regular fire button, and provides audio cues as to how you're setting it.

In my mods where the top screws off to an easily accessible Kick pot, I prefer the Evolv Kick 2. The VW mode in the Kick 2 is very good, and can be fine tuned at a pretty high resolutions from 5 - 15 watts. It's also built in a way that is going to be stable in the mod, make good contact, and won't get 'crushed' if the mod is cranked together too tightly.

I also have a couple of mods where getting to the Kick is a bit more involved...for those I've really enjoyed the Crown. With my telescoping mods (where these shine best for me), I also have to take care NOT to crank them down too tight. The Crown is easier to crush/damage in a telescoping type mod than an Evolv Kick.
 
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Cannon Fodder

Full Member
Nov 21, 2013
8
1
Manhattan
Hi Credo,

No problem, I appreciate the info. I am using EH IMR 3.7 18500's 1100 mah. To be honest, I am wondering if it is the Smotech/clone, less than $20 bucks part of it that is causing the issue. The SB is my first mod. My progression is probobly fairly typical, walmart e-cigs for a few weeks. I upraged to KGO's that refused to take a charge after a year. I got a couple of vision spinners that still work, but they look like they are falling appart. The finnish is flaking off and they are not lasting as long on a new charge than they did when new, this is after about 8 months. I got the SB with the kick a couple of weeks ago, I can't test it without the kick, since I do not have any 18650 batteries. I am just wondering if getting a real kick, the sleave, and a couple of 18650's would help. Of courst this would about double the investment in the SB itself, so I am asking first.
 

devauto

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Mar 13, 2013
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Hi Cannon Fodder,

I don't know if this will help or not. I do not have a kick, but there have been quite a few posts that talk about how inconsistent the Smoktek Kick is compared to the evolv kick. My impression is that it doesn't work nearly as well or consistently as the evolv version. Again, I don't know, I don't have or use one. I would suggest you try searching the forums and see if any of the info is helpful.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
 

Credo

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Hi Credo,

No problem, I appreciate the info. I am using EH IMR 3.7 18500's 1100 mah. To be honest, I am wondering if it is the Smotech/clone, less than $20 bucks part of it that is causing the issue. The SB is my first mod. My progression is probobly fairly typical, walmart e-cigs for a few weeks. I upraged to KGO's that refused to take a charge after a year. I got a couple of vision spinners that still work, but they look like they are falling appart. The finnish is flaking off and they are not lasting as long on a new charge than they did when new, this is after about 8 months. I got the SB with the kick a couple of weeks ago, I can't test it without the kick, since I do not have any 18650 batteries. I am just wondering if getting a real kick, the sleave, and a couple of 18650's would help. Of courst this would about double the investment in the SB itself, so I am asking first.

Just my experience:

I'm not familiar with your specific model of mod. I use a K100, Nemisis Clone, and soon Saber Touch Kicked with my kicks and crowns.

The K100 can NOT use an 18650 kicked, so I use 18500 or 18350 in that.
The Nemisis and Nemisis clones come with a kick ring...so all set there.
The Saber will also have room for a kicked 18650.

I usually build coils at or slightly under 2 Ohms. This gives me some room for a cooler vape, but I can also crank it up a good bit if desired. The whole point of VV/VW right?

If you like your settings in the higher range most of the time...over 8 watts...
By all means, get a kick ring (if you can find one for your mod) and run 18650s if you can :)

If you're more into low wattage vaping from 5-7ish watts, the 18490/500 are fine...unless of course you just want longer lasting batteries between charges.

This may sound crazy, but with my low wattage stuff (tweaked to do well at 5 watts) I seem to be getting very close to the same vape time from 18350 800mah batteries as I am from my 1100 mah 18500 cells. The 18500s go a little longer, but not much. When I screw on an rda that likes 10 watts or more...the 18350 doesn't seem to hit as hard for as long. It makes some sense though, when considering that the 18500 has a little higher amperage capability.

Now with my 18650 10 amp Hybrid cells pushing 2 Ohm coils from 5-8w....well, I can drain more than 2 Kayfun style tanks of liquid from a single charge. I also end up with a pretty long mod to haul around as a trade-off. A kicked 18650 with a KayFun 3.1 style atty is a pretty 'long' and 'heavy' setup. No problem in the car or living room :)

If you like to spend lots of time 'away' from charging units...it's probably worth it to look into an 18650 rig. Of course you can always just carry an extra battery or two if you stick with the smaller sizes :)

If you think you'll ever want to check out sub-ohm multiple coil rigs, or find yourself running stuff in the 15w and up range on a regular basis...definitely get some 20-30 amp high drain 18650 IMR or MNKE cells. It'll be safer, and should last more charge cycles than 'pushing' the lower amp batteries to their limits would.

Over time I've decided to go with more than one fully set up rig rather than carrying around spare batteries. I.E. A heavy/long 18650 setup with one flavor in the car. Another rather beefy Darwin set-up as a moderate 'all day vape' in the office. A smaller 18350 kicked, 'hard hitting' unit in my pocket with another flavor, and yet more waiting at home ready to go :)
 
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Baditude

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I have Noalaxed the kick and the inside of the tube and threads, it has ameliorated the issued somewhat, but it has not eliminated it.
Hi Derek. I have to ask why did you use Noalox on the Kick and inside the tube of the SB? It is an antioxidant meant only for the threads to prevent metal on metal lockup. It has no electrical benefit and does not increase electrical conduction.

I would not advice putting Noaloxx on the Kick or inside the tube.

You don't want to be running your batteries below 3.5 volts. Doing so will greatly reduce their expected lifetime. You should also be using a high drain battery for the Kick if you aren't. These are IMR or hybrid type batteries.

BATTERY BASICS FOR MODS: IMR OR PROTECTED ICR?
 
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have to ask why did you use Noalox on the Kick and inside the tube of the SB? BATTERY BASICS FOR MODS: IMR OR PROTECTED ICR?

I wiped out the inside of the SB and got some black soot, this was when it was brand new, I used the lubricant and got a lot more black soot after a week. I looks like grit from the metal woring process. No complaints, it was like saw dust inside a new Amish made cabinet.

As far as the voltage, that is where the kick died. As you can imagine, I did not test the battery after every puff. Its interesting that you say that the kick should cut out at about 3.5, which mine is not doing. I am still thinking that I should ditch the smoktech and get an evolve one.

Thanks,

Derek
 

Credo

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I wiped out the inside of the SB and got some black soot, this was when it was brand new, I used the lubricant and got a lot more black soot after a week. I looks like grit from the metal woring process. No complaints, it was like saw dust inside a new Amish made cabinet.

As far as the voltage, that is where the kick died. As you can imagine, I did not test the battery after every puff. Its interesting that you say that the kick should cut out at about 3.5, which mine is not doing. I am still thinking that I should ditch the smoktech and get an evolve one.

Thanks,

Derek

Kicks are intended to cut off 'somewhere between' 2.7v to 3.5v I think. Since we tend to pull the batteries out of the mod and test them (kind of difficult to test under load, while vaping, without some special in-line equipment)...allow some variation in there for several reasons.

They will usually stutter with higher settings at the 3.5v point...and might give a few more weak or stuttering drags to the 3ish volt mark under load...but this behavior can vary depending on your atty, the cell itself, and kick setting. With lower settings, you might not get much if any stuttering at all...by the time the kick decides to stop working the battery might actually still have enough juice to fire the atty at that setting with no 'boosting/bucking regulation' at all...in some cases, with 'lower settings' it has even been attempting to 'buck' voltages to something 'lower' than the actual battery voltage.

The thing is, they cut off 'under load'.
It's possible, particularly with higher resistance coils at higher wattage settings, to start a drag with a 3.6v idle battery charge, and end that same drag with a 3v charge under load...let the battery sit for a moment, and test it 'out of the mod' and get something more like a 3.2v reading. We must not forget that the Kick will actually attempt to boost a 3.5v signal up to as much as needed to make the coils fire at whatever watts we've set it for (Up around 5.5v or even 6v boosts are possible). That can mean it might try to draw a current from the battery up to 7 amps in extreme conditions.

AFAIK, most of the VW Kicks and Crowns out there monitor and adjust up to 10 times per second. They'll usually do a very good job of keeping you and your batteries safe.

So when you pull the battery out of a mod and put it on your battery tester results may vary a bit. If it's well over 2 volts at this point, you should be safe. Firing a 2 Ohm atty tuned into 12 watts can be quite different for the battery 'under load' from a 3 Ohm atty tuned to the same 12 watts. Also the efficiency of the mod itself can play some role in this. A better conducting mod will require less work from the Kick and the battery. A better conducting mod will also have more 'accurate' readings of voltages and currents when the whole thing is under load. Hence, there can be variations, even with the exact same Kick unit, same atty, and battery, when dropped in a different mod.

Also consider the drain pulled from the battery depending on how the Kick is set, the length of time you push the button, etc. The important thing is that the Kick does not let the battery 'over-drain' and reverse polarize (could be bad if you put a battery damaged like this on a charger, as the poles have reversed!). Two volts is considered the 'minimal' level for the IMR cell, and 4.2volts is the 'maximum', but due to 'under load' conditions, experts here on the forum stress that 3.5ish volt minimum head room (this is when the battery is out of the mod and tested...3.5v or lower...definitely time to recharge if you want the most charge cycles possible for the cell).

As a side note, if batteries come out of your regulated mod which is no longer firing, and test well above 2 volts...there's no need to panic if it's 'less than 3.5v'. It most likely hasn't been able to 'fire' and pull a hard/fast current from the battery since that last drag that took it below the 3 to 3.5v point while 'under load'. Its little monitors, beeps, whistles, and other sleepy functions probably don't even draw a quarter of an amp.

Also, in the case of the Crown...it won't fire anymore once it goes below a certain point, but it can still beep or play some tunes and stuff, which can take the battery down a tiny bit further before it totally shuts itself down. The beeping and monitoring things that might still work when the battery is low is an extremely low amp function that is not likely to damage the cell at this point.

The Kick 2 also seems to have a kind of 'by-pass' mode if you screw on something like a 0.5 Ohm atty.
Without a Kick in the picture...that's a 35 watt rig at 4.2v right off the charger, pulling more than 8 amps. A good deal higher than the Kick's max setting right?

Going Sub-Ohm with the Kick might change the rules somewhat. You'd still get over-drain protection, thermal protection, short circuit protection, and possibly some 'boosting' (with stuff closer to 1 Ohm, or barely below it) as the battery gets low, but I'm not sure it will 'buck' things down much, if at all.

Example (using an Ohm's Law Calculator to do the math):
To make a 0.5 Ohm atty run at the top setting of the Evolv Kick 2 @ 15watts, you'd have to 'buck' the voltage to 2.7 volts, and the Kick 2 supposedly has a low voltage bucking floor of something like 3.5 volts. Also note that 2.7v is a bit lower than we'd like to take the raw unregulated battery as well. So...the Kick 2 is essentially just a bit of a 'safety cap' with an atty like this screwed on (no longer a VW device). My undersanding is that the mod would start working at the full 35+ watt potential when freshly charged, and would probably continue to vape into ranges from 18 - 20ish watts until the Kick 2 stops letting the mod fire.

Unless you intend to drive multiple coils and burn through ounces of liquid a day instead of milliliters...a 0.5 Ohm multi/parallel coiled atty is probably not of much interest. If you do go deep into sub-ohm territory...with or without a kick...proceed with much caution, and only use the best 20-30 amp high drain batteries you can find. Check everything frequently, and consider cutting the number of charge cycles of such cells by half before retiring/discarding them from vaping applications.

Sorry, I don't know the lowest Ohm atty you can put on the Artisan Crown. I don't see it listed anywhere. While I do own two of them, I have never tried to go below 1.5 Ohms with either one. I tend to make single coil rigs from 1.7 - 2.5 Ohms...so that I CAN actually experience VW or VV for what it was meant to do...give me a pretty wide 'RANGE' of temperatures to choose from.
 
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Credo

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Credo, you are on info overload, I really appreciate it, I am using a 3 ohm cartomizer in a tank, nothing close to sub ohm. I started with an old 2ohm cart that was not punched while I was waiting for the tank. You make me think that a 2 ohm cart more amps, less voltage might work better. I tend to do lower power, longer drags.

3 Ohm carto is excellent if you like lower power. Can't hurt to try some variety :)
 
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