Sorry, It's Another are these VTC4's legit thread

[2VapeORNaught]

Hi all!
I'm a former lurker and I'll try to keep it brief. I'm ~20 year smoker looking to quit and new to vaping. I tried the e-cigs celebrities push and spent more time charging than vaping. So, I bought a bunch of gear after a week long crash course in vaping (8-12 hours a day). Clearly it wasn't enough time. I am sure I made a number of mistakes that will be pointed out to me if asked to elaborate (trying to avoid the tl;dr - i.e. don't care crowd).
Bottom line I bought these batteries and am paranoid they may not be real. I chose the vendor based on:
1. Many posts on this forum claiming he's legit.
2. He's listed on a popular(?) youtube reviewer's website.
3. He's been very helpful and patient answering emails full of questions - stress I'm new.

So I won't name him. If I'm being ridiculous I don't want to tarnish anyone's reputation. Let the pics speak for themselves.

My worries are about the seams, the black plastic tops being askew on many of the batteries, the length of numbers before the alpha code indicating manufacturing date, and no Sony 33 (or something like that) line.

Not sure if thats the new normal post the dryspell, as another poster in a thread here stated QC in the new plants was bad. This is a contentious issue I know as I've read/seen people claim everything from there are no real VTC's post 2005, to it depends on the vendor. I apologize for the number of pics but I bought 8 batteries (mod needs 2, rec's VTCs) and I was trying to stock up considering their rarity. Lesson Learned regarding bulk purchases.
I grouped the batteries A through D. I kept them in the same orientation for the tops and bottoms (top in the side pic = top in the top pic). No photoshopping, only rescaled to reduce file size. Admittedly bad camera. Any help sincerely appreciated. Sorry this was still TL;DR.

A:


B:

 

[2VapeORNaught]

Ugh more pics...
C:


D:

 

[Rsunderl]

View media item 427907Hi 2Vape and welcome aboard!

I compared your pics with VTC4's I have from a well-known, trusted vendor, and IMHO you have nothing to worry about. The lettering and symbols on yours match in looks and style (some of the numbers are, of course, a bit different) and the black caps on mine are also slightly askew. The seams look like mine do.

Hope it helps and Happy Vaping!

 

[2VapeORNaught]

Hi Rsunderl, thank you for your time and advice.

 

[bsidb]

I compared yours to a pair I just got from Orbtronics and they look the same, except the second line of numbers and letters,(some indeciferable code I guess) but all else looks good

 

[2VapeORNaught]

Hi bsidb, thanks for taking the time to help me out.

 

[nyiddle]

"No VTC's post 2005"?

Where did you hear this? VTC5's are the only battery that Sony ran clean out of -- they were producing a ton of them and then vaping became popular, everyone bought 'em up and the stock just has never been replenished. The last batch of new VTC5's are probably about 1.5 years old (not nearly 2005).

I've never seen fake VTC4's, although I don't doubt they exist. Among other things, the only concern you'd have would likely be over the amp limit. If they're "fake VTC4's" (and they're the 30A variety) you would only be concerned if you were pushing the batteries past 20A -- which I don't recommend doing anyway.

Sorry if this post comes off a little condescending or whatever, not intending to be, the moral of this post is:

You probably have nothing to worry about! Never a bad idea to poll the forums for confirmation, though.

 

[2VapeORNaught]

Hi nyiddle

I did it all backwards. The batteries were the last thing I considered during my week of research. From examining tanks (plastic for instance is not good with some juices), mods (some even come with the sled installed upside down, what fun), PG/VG blends (some are allergic to one or the other, or maybe both lol), coils & replacement heads (because I'm too green to start wrapping coils), voltage meters, wicking issues (cotton vs ceramic paper vs rayon), safe vaping issues (ohm's law), etc.

Just a handful of variables anyone with no experience, starting point, or friends to assist with would've been able to successfully navigate right? If I sound sarcastic that's absolutely not my intention. Obviously amidst all of that I should have intrinsically known that authentic batteries were the real issue: ”Please Note:...3. All well-known batteries are extensively counterfeited now... Fake batteries are dangerous”. Really stupid of me to think that batteries under brand names like Sony, Samsung, and LG would not be sold to the public. I should have known I'd be going through OEM dealers and ultimately relying entirely upon trust.

Incredulous to the idea of there being fake VTC4's? Or are you? Its rather hard to tell (all part of the fun, huh). Strangely, its been queried somewhat here, don't know if you noticed.

As to the 2005 remark, I discovered that fun rumor here while searching battery safety. He begins talking about that around the 9 minute mark.

But hey, I probably have nothing to worry about, but still a good idea to poll. Thanks for taking the time to dubiously type that bit of obvious advice.

Ah rumors and speculation, not at all part and parcel of vaping and the “community” I've unfortunately come to discover.

Thanks nyiddle, I foolishly joined the forum seeking help and some modicum of certainty that these batteries wouldn't blow off my hand, face, or set fire to my home. And the two posters before you were kind enough to provide that. But then you felt it'd be PERFECT to remind me of all that uncertainty. Seriously thanks, you helped me. I'm going to throw away my brand new Vapor Flask 2.1, Kanger Subtank Mini, all the nickel heads I'd bought and planned on using (because VW, temperature control, and wicks not catching on fire were some of the safety features I was looking for), and properly dispose of these batteries. I'll stick to the cancer sticks. In the end its better than asking for help from people like you.

Now how do I get kicked out of here and have my newly created account closed permanently? Seriously mod(s) perma-ban me please. I want out.

PS. so glad Susan-S liked your comment but didn't have the time or consideration to actually type something.

Good times.

 

[Baditude]

Final word on Sony's production plans for the US18650 VTC4 and the US18650 VTC5 (April 9, 2015)

"It is very unfortunate that Sony would cancel the production of these cells, since they have been shown to be the highest performance high discharge cells ever made. However, they are a big company and have recently had an estimated $300 million dollar recall due to safety concerns. This may be why they decided to close this production line, since it is the most extreme battery they made."

 

[nyiddle]

Hi nyiddle

I did it all backwards. The batteries were the last thing I considered during my week of research. From examining tanks (plastic for instance is not good with some juices), mods (some even come with the sled installed upside down, what fun), PG/VG blends (some are allergic to one or the other, or maybe both lol), coils & replacement heads (because I'm too green to start wrapping coils), voltage meters, wicking issues (cotton vs ceramic paper vs rayon), safe vaping issues (ohm's law), etc.

Just a handful of variables anyone with no experience, starting point, or friends to assist with would've been able to successfully navigate right? If I sound sarcastic that's absolutely not my intention. Obviously amidst all of that I should have intrinsically known that authentic batteries were the real issue: ”Please Note:...3. All well-known batteries are extensively counterfeited now... Fake batteries are dangerous”. Really stupid of me to think that batteries under brand names like Sony, Samsung, and LG would not be sold to the public. I should have known I'd be going through OEM dealers and ultimately relying entirely upon trust.

Incredulous to the idea of there being fake VTC4's? Or are you? Its rather hard to tell (all part of the fun, huh). Strangely, its been queried somewhat here, don't know if you noticed.

As to the 2005 remark, I discovered that fun rumor here while searching battery safety. He begins talking about that around the 9 minute mark.

But hey, I probably have nothing to worry about, but still a good idea to poll. Thanks for taking the time to dubiously type that bit of obvious advice.

Ah rumors and speculation, not at all part and parcel of vaping and the “community” I've unfortunately come to discover.

Thanks nyiddle, I foolishly joined the forum seeking help and some modicum of certainty that these batteries wouldn't blow off my hand, face, or set fire to my home. And the two posters before you were kind enough to provide that. But then you felt it'd be PERFECT to remind me of all that uncertainty. Seriously thanks, you helped me. I'm going to throw away my brand new Vapor Flask 2.1, Kanger Subtank Mini, all the nickel heads I'd bought and planned on using (because VW, temperature control, and wicks not catching on fire were some of the safety features I was looking for), and properly dispose of these batteries. I'll stick to the cancer sticks. In the end its better than asking for help from people like you.

Now how do I get kicked out of here and have my newly created account closed permanently? Seriously mod(s) perma-ban me please. I want out.

PS. so glad Susan-S liked your comment but didn't have the time or consideration to actually type something.

Good times.

WOAH. I don't even know where to begin, this was totally unwarranted. You asked, "Should I worry?" I said, "No, not for your specific batteries," and you retort with this passive-aggressive diatribe? Come on, man. Grow up.

 

[Fuzzy Bruce]

I get the need to rant, but to choose cigarettes over vaping because of some misunderstanding of the nature of vaping is not in your best health interests.

No matter the brand of battery used, a little common sense and knowledge goes a long way. Test your coils with a multimeter of ohmmeter. Test with cap off and cap on before firing it up. Know the limits of your battery and apply ohms law to make sure you are not exceeding battery specs. Do not know ohm's law? At least use one of the free calculator to check your specs.

I would venture to say 99% of all battery failures were caused by owners lack of understanding the art and science of vaping.

{MODERATED}

 

[classwife]

Gentle up a bit

Sometimes not hearing tone of voice is difficult on a Forum and messages get typed and read differently than intended.

 

[petrotech]

my bad mr. (or mrs.) moderator. I'll play nice.

 

[Riff]

As stated above VTC4's aren't really getting cloned all that much. Your batteries and mine match up with very good accuracy. I even checked the only stable point in the serial numbers, trying to be 100% sure for you.

I do hope you'll come back and see this. This forum is actually really nice, they just make i a habbit of "preaching" the gospel of safety first and here's some basic guidelines and benchmarks to keep you there until you know enough to push things on your own and experiment safely.

The gist of nyiddle's post was if you are really worried that the batteries are clones treat them as 20 amp batteries just to be sure. A safe idea to anyone. Steam engine's Battery Drain tool says you can go as low as 0.3 ohm on a 20 amp battery. That should give you plenty of safe head room, and going lower is just not something I recommend a new vaper do.

If you are still using manufactured coils in tanks you should be safe with almost an coils on the market. I think only a few sub-ohm tanks go lower these days, the Atlantis 2 for example. If you are building your own coils, 0.3 is plenty low for almost anything. I just started building "cloud chasing coils" and wouldn't you know it I'm getting bigger clouds from a 0.5 ohm 28 gauge dual twisted setup than I was with a 0.3 ohm 24 gauge regular dual setup.

I hope you vape safe and return. I hope you find happiness. I really hope you read this. Cheers!

 

[Alien Traveler]

But what you are using these batteries for? Ohms, atti, mod?
If you are not subhoming you should be safe.

 

[Ohm Gnome]

Sorry moderator. I had just finished watching the awesome Atlanta Hawks win and I was fired up. Let's go Hawks

 

[2VapeORNaught]

Ok, I'm back just to clarify. I won't be responding to any further posts. Yeah it's a long read feel free to leave. After this TL;DR I'm requesting again to have my account/membership closed, please.
Here's how I read nyiddle's post rightly or wrongly:
Where did you hear this? VTC5's are the only battery that Sony ran clean out of -- they were producing a ton of them and then vaping became popular, everyone bought 'em up and the stock just has never been replenished. The last batch of new VTC5's are probably about 1.5 years old (not nearly 2005). [If you have a question just ask it. Snark – yes I am capable of doing simple math and deducing ~1.5 years is not equal to 2005]

I've never seen fake VTC4's, although I don't doubt they exist. [What's the point here? You seem to want it both ways, I'm positive I've never seen one, but let me CYA and admit there may be fakes] Among other things, the only concern you'd have would likely be over the amp limit. If they're "fake VTC4's" (and they're the 30A variety) you would only be concerned if you were pushing the batteries past 20A -- which I don't recommend doing anyway.
[“fake VTC4s”: Dismissive and ridiculous considering the post I linked to, from this site, regarding all major batteries having been counterfeited. Rather than recommending why not just ask what my build is, what I'm looking to do with vaping, etc. Asking questions suggests genuine interest, rather than a lecture. Or a drive-by post to up your count.]

Sorry if this post comes off a little condescending or whatever [If you believe your post could be construed to be condescending why not edit it to remove any doubt. The “whatever” reads as cavalier and apathetic, suggesting you don't care whether you come off condescending], not intending to be [CYA after the fact, see: whatever], the moral of this post is:

You probably have nothing to worry about! Never a bad idea to poll the forums for confirmation, though. [Finally, more CYA, and what was the point of your post? Obviously I'm in doubt (confirmation) that's why I spent the time finding out what size/res pics were allowed, taking pics, uploading them, and creating the thread.
Again it seems the only thing you were interested in was where the 2005 rumor came from, passing off some sage advice, and then patting me on the head for doing precisely what I was doing. The whole thing came off as run of the mill snark, as well as condescending. Seeing your State as: Inebriated, only furthered my interpretation as you dropping by simply to be hilarious. Or rather a troll.]

My response wasn't passive-aggressive, (although you come off as a self-appointed authority figure I can see where you might misinterpret that) it was purely aggressive, frank, blunt and soaked in utterly unambiguous sarcasm so thick it was almost 100% VG. And I'll continue to be blunt, frank and verbose.

In the end though, to use your word, whatever. I highly doubt you'd ever admit that your words could be construed the way I read them. I will not back down from my interpretation. There is no more point in this. After the eruption I thought clarification was in order, that is it.

To all the people who saw blood and decided to pounce (thanks classwife btw for cleaning that up) you guys only confirmed what too many posters here (and on all forums) are all about.

Man up, learn the ways to use all the variables involved, and shut up. As to that, why don't you man up and admit you're an addict, to nicotine, and quit rather than pretend you're fine simply using a safer delivery method. To the person who'd pay for the shipping costs, but not for the brand new/unused materials, your words showed just what kind of person you are, and why I'm happy to leave this forum.

As to whether I'm fun at parties. My friends seem to like me. They also happen to be that extremely rare breed of fun-loving and considerate human beings.

If the batteries are baloney it doesn't matter what safe measures I take. As to what I'd planned on doing with my device it's irrelevant now because the Flask only fits VTC's and LG's (emailed Vapor Flask support). Thanks to Baditude's info (sincerely thank you) VTC's are out, leaving LG's which I can't get without going through some potentially unethical middle-man.

To be clear: I wasn't seeking to sub-ohm or chase clouds. The Flask: durable, long lasting mod with a display I could see when I had it next to my face. Subtank Mini: durable, larger tank (with an RBA to explore later) with easily replaceable heads. DNA40 board: temperature safety features, I wanted flavor not vapor; dry burning without cotton ignition another plus. The cons: temp control requires nickel OCC .15 ohm heads. So yeah it did put me into sub-ohming territory, but I thought I could set the temperature and watts well below the flash point and 40 watt limit, and trust the board to not be hitting anything near 20A. Again, not chasing clouds. Post purchase I found out about Stock OCC .15 ohm coils fluctuating by ~.01-.02 ohms, and the preheat feature pulling more watts than I had set to reach/maintain temperature. All of which makes the authenticity of the battery even more critical, because those issues stress the batteries.

Thanks to Baditude the battery guru, truly thanks again btw, I have something concrete to compare against all the well intentioned, “it looks fine to me – but... CYA, YMMV.” I have no confidence whatsoever in the supplier of the batteries, the batteries themselves (my conclusion, disagree and enjoy yours), and as the guy offering to pay for shipping costs illustrates, the plethora of ethically devoid people willing to make a buck off someone else, dangers be damned.

It's precisely that disgusting behavior that destroys trust, the sole determinant in exchange of commodities.

I have no trust left after this battery purchase because it's the third time I've been had. 3 strikes rule.

Word of mouth, anonymous anybodies vouching for the trustworthiness of vendors doesn't cut it considering how dangerous these products can be.

So I am indeed out. I've learned a very expensive lesson. It's either quit or stick to the cigs. I successfully quit before, a major health issue involving family brought me back after 7 years being cig free. I know I can quit. In fact, it was all those 'fun at parties types' that got me into smoking as a teenager, all the more reason to quit.

As for the gear, it will be disposed of properly. True I could ditch the temp control stuff (rendering the reason for the Flask moot-I could care less about looks) and stick to 1.2 ohm stock heads, but after all this I'd still be worried every time I fired/charged the battery because I don't trust any of the middle-men and their batteries now. Especially after all the CYA – legalese weasel-wording involved in purchasing batteries. If the middle-men aren't willing to stand by their products, why should I. As far as selling the gear it would require using the internet, and I have about as much trust in online anything as I do these batteries (mod deleted posts = proof).

Good luck to you.

 

[Ohm Gnome]

Man honestly I've never seen people really trolling and being malicious on here. If you're that worried trade your gear for a mod with internal batteries. Problem solved. You can easily verify its authentic.

 

[petrotech]

I'm just very confused...you came here asking questions, people answered them to the best of their ability, and you responded with a large, aggressive post filled with sarcasm.

 

[sonicdsl]

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