Tabacco Extraction Juice vs Fake Tobacco Flavoring Question

[Trayce]

First, I totally don't intend to start a war or debate. But in all my recent reading of tobacco extraction I have caught wisps here and there of bits of info regarding what might be drawn into the extraction process aside from flavor.

To make what I'm getting at plain, do carcinogens and junky additives we are trying to escape get carried over into the extraction? I'm going to make some extractions anyway, but I want all the info as I might vape it less often if I know for sure there are negatives to it, however minimal especially compared to smoking it. It's just good to know.

The reason I want to try some extractions is I am not happy with the fake tobacco flavors I have tried. And from what I can tell most of those have ingredients that are also generally thought of as better to avoid if possible, like alcohol and other stuff I can't remember offhand.

I realize the cleanest juice is plain old PG/VG (which I actually enjoy), and I'm not a health nut or trying to be a purist. I'm just wondering if anyone has any idea or guess as to how MUCH of the negatives get carried over in extractions.

If there is already a thread on this I apologize. I couldn't find one but maybe I didn't look hard enough.

 

[MJTP]

I'd guess it depends on the product being extracted. If someone's going out and buying a Black n Mild and extracting that, no telling what's in it. Natural tobacco leaves though should be as safe as eating tomatoes, aside from it being tobacco. I'm not sure if they use any sort of pesticides that vegetable growers don't. Vapor wise, I'm worried that tobacco particles get caught all up in the lungs, and if vapor penetrates those particles into the skin and lungs more or less than combusted smoke. I don't know about that one.

But I ordered Sunday Morning from MOV, and the test will simply be, for me, how harsh it is. If it makes me cough or gag, it's probably not healthy. If it doesn't have any side effects, then... not sure.

 

[y cherry y]

The Natural Tobaccos thread has info interspersed throughout on these issues, but mainly regarding commercial juices. Some NET sellers have their extracted liquid tested for TSNA's. Lab testing would be the only way to be sure. I don't know specifically how much of anything gets into the concentrate.

The huge majority of bad stuff in tobacco is only released by burning it.

 

[MaxUT]

I can think of two things to be aware of:

1) Tobacco-specific N-nitrosamines (TSNAs), which are cancer-causing. However, not all tobaccos have these to the same degree, and some have practically none at all. The makers of Swedish snus are held to a very strict standard for TSNA content and their products are proven to be very safe. I recall reading about a juice maker who used organically grown tobacco which tested as very low in TSNAs (unfortunately I forget which company).

2) The radioactive element Polonium 210 is frequently found in tobacco and it is also carcenogenic. The Polonium is taken up from the soil but again, the amount can vary a lot. Rock phosphate fertilizer is said to be a significant source for it.

That said, I still plan to continue making extracts to use as a tobacco base flavoring.

 

[shatner]

The Natural Tobaccos thread has info interspersed throughout on these issues, but mainly regarding commercial juices. Some NET sellers have their extracted liquid tested for TSNA's. Lab testing would be the only way to be sure. I don't know specifically how much of anything gets into the concentrate.

The huge majority of bad stuff in tobacco is only released by burning it.

This. Ahlusion does GC/MS testing for TSNAs. Wlad will throw a whole batch away if he finds any TSNAs in his extractions.

Mainly it comes down to extraction method. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. IF there are TSNAs in the extract, the PPM is so very low that it's most likely negligible.

 

[shatner]

I'd guess it depends on the product being extracted. If someone's going out and buying a Black n Mild and extracting that, no telling what's in it. Natural tobacco leaves though should be as safe as eating tomatoes, aside from it being tobacco. I'm not sure if they use any sort of pesticides that vegetable growers don't. Vapor wise, I'm worried that tobacco particles get caught all up in the lungs, and if vapor penetrates those particles into the skin and lungs more or less than combusted smoke. I don't know about that one.

But I ordered Sunday Morning from MOV, and the test will simply be, for me, how harsh it is. If it makes me cough or gag, it's probably not healthy. If it doesn't have any side effects, then... not sure.

RE: bolded. Any substance, whether it be vapor or particulate will make you cough when inhaled. Human lungs aren't supposed to intake anything except for air. So of course vapor will make you cough. That's the worst way to tell if something isn't healthy.

 

[y cherry y]

RE: bolded. Any substance, whether it be vapor or particulate will make you cough when inhaled. Human lungs aren't supposed to intake anything except for air. So of course vapor will make you cough. That's the worst way to tell if something isn't healthy.

Yup, anything that irritates your throat, esophagus or lungs in a way they're not accustomed to will induce coughing. It's not proof of anything. Again, the majority of dangerous stuff in tobacco is created by burning it.

 

[Trayce]

First, thanks to everyone for their replies, and I will go read the other thread indicated.

I'd guess it depends on the product being extracted. If someone's going out and buying a Black n Mild and extracting that, no telling what's in it.

::whimper:: That was exactly what I was going to do. B&M, also Captain Black pipe tobacco, and I wouldn't mind some Prime Time Raspberry cigarillo extraction.

Natural tobacco leaves though should be as safe as eating tomatoes, aside from it being tobacco. [...]

OK. Yes, I see the difference and this is the pure, good way to go. But can one buy organic, Black Cavendish tobacco leaves? I think the tobacco's I like are a mix of stuff.

Well, it's not like I'd vape it all the time. I think once in awhile is no big deal. No worse than smog.

 

[Trayce]

I can think of two things to be aware of:

1) Tobacco-specific N-nitrosamines (TSNAs), which are cancer-causing. However, not all tobaccos have these to the same degree, and some have practically none at all. The makers of Swedish snus are held to a very strict standard for TSNA content and their products are proven to be very safe. I recall reading about a juice maker who used organically grown tobacco which tested as very low in TSNAs (unfortunately I forget which company).

2) The radioactive element Polonium 210 is frequently found in tobacco and it is also carcenogenic. The Polonium is taken up from the soil but again, the amount can vary a lot. Rock phosphate fertilizer is said to be a significant source for it.

That said, I still plan to continue making extracts to use as a tobacco base flavoring.

Excellent info. A smoker pal I have been trying to get to switch to e-cigs just emailed me this morning about something she read regarding TSNAs found in some tested e-cigs. I explained it depends on the juice but by and large the vast majority of juice has no TSNAs and even those that do, it's far less damaging than the amount of crapola in analogs.

 

[y cherry y]

Excellent info. A smoker pal I have been trying to get to switch to e-cigs just emailed me this morning about something she read regarding TSNAs found in some tested e-cigs. I explained it depends on the juice but by and large the vast majority of juice has no TSNAs and even those that do, it's far less damaging than the amount of crapola in analogs.

Ahlusion tests their extractions specifically for TSNA's, as Shatner noted. Their aromatic tobaccos might be right up your alley. Strong tobacco blends -- some with other flavor components (vanilla, cherries, maple, honey) and some without. But they are seriously powerful, rich tobaccos. Don't say I didn't warn you!

 

[shatner]

First, thanks to everyone for their replies, and I will go read the other thread indicated.



::whimper:: That was exactly what I was going to do. B&M, also Captain Black pipe tobacco, and I wouldn't mind some Prime Time Raspberry cigarillo extraction.



OK. Yes, I see the difference and this is the pure, good way to go. But can one buy organic, Black Cavendish tobacco leaves? I think the tobacco's I like are a mix of stuff.

Well, it's not like I'd vape it all the time. I think once in awhile is no big deal. No worse than smog.

RE: bolded, absolutely you can find organic Black Cavendish. I'm not sure where, but you can. Also, don't be scared to do a B&M extraction. Do it and let us know how it turns out. I think you have already, but if not, join us in the thread titled "Natural Tobacco". Also PM Scarf-Ace. She's the queen of DIY extraction.

 

[Trayce]

RE: bolded, absolutely you can find organic Black Cavendish. I'm not sure where, but you can.

Great to know! In the meantime I will buy a pouch of Captain Black from the local store to tie me over (and practice on). But I learned in all my research that this is basically Black Cavendish (duh!) with some additives. I could use plain, organic Black Cavendish leaves [once found] and after the extraction, add a little caramel and vanilla... maybe some kind of spice too.

Also, don't be scared to do a B&M extraction. Do it and let us know how it turns out.

Oh I'm certainly going to do just that. When I pick up the Captain Black, I plan to get a pack of B&Ms.

I think you have already, but if not, join us in the thread titled "Natural Tobacco". Also PM Scarf-Ace. She's the queen of DIY extraction.

LOL yes I am in that thread and yes I am aware of Scarf-Ace's talents and have been reading her posts eagerly.

I actually read a couple articles tonight and am no longer even mildly concerned about TSNAs even from my own extractions from Cpt Black or B&Ms. In case anyone is interested:

Nitrosamine Levels - Smoke versus Vapor

New study confirms that e-cigarettes have minimal quantities of nitrosamines

 

[Trayce]

Ahlusion tests their extractions specifically for TSNA's, as Shatner noted. Their aromatic tobaccos might be right up your alley. Strong tobacco blends -- some with other flavor components (vanilla, cherries, maple, honey) and some without. But they are seriously powerful, rich tobaccos. Don't say I didn't warn you!

I've bookmarked them. If my DIY trials are a failure I will be trying some of these. The Black Cavendish from N-E-T.com for sure, and perhaps one of these Ahlusions.

 

[Randy C]

Ahlusion tests their extractions specifically for TSNA's, as Shatner noted. Their aromatic tobaccos might be right up your alley. Strong tobacco blends -- some with other flavor components (vanilla, cherries, maple, honey) and some without. But they are seriously powerful, rich tobaccos. Don't say I didn't warn you!

I love most anything Ahlusion makes, but cherry is right.... their aromatics are STRONG. These will seriously put hair on your chest! Most aros don't work for me and I just can't do Devil Dog- period. I do however, have a love/hate relationship with Blue Grass Burly. I seriously crave BGB but can only tolerate little bits at a time.

 

[shatner]

I've bookmarked them. If my DIY trials are a failure I will be trying some of these. The Black Cavendish from N-E-T.com for sure, and perhaps one of these Ahlusions.

Not "perhaps" Ahlusion. "Definitely" Ahlusion. I suggest smooth Criminal, Sahara Blend, Desperado and it you're feeling like a strong tobacco; Blue Grass Burley.

I love most anything Ahlusion makes, but cherry is right.... their aromatics are STRONG. These will seriously put hair on your chest! Most aros don't work for me and I just can't do Devil Dog- period. I do however, have a love/hate relationship with Blue Grass Burly. I seriously crave BGB but can only tolerate little bits at a time.

This! Just be aware that the Ahlusion 'aromatics' are pure, unadulterated tobaccos with no added sweeteners. If I had some Blue Grass Burley I'd send you a 10ml for you to try before you buy. All I have it Vurley and Sweet Georgia Peach. And not much of either.

 

[Trayce]

If the pocketbook weren't a factor I'd be ordering a 5ml bottle of every pipe tobacco mix N-E-T offers, and ditto for Ahlusions. As it is I have to take the poor gal's route for now as I just blew my budget on a new mod, tank, dripper, coils, etc.

But picked up a pouch of Captain Black yesterday. My god the smell.... SO delicious. I skipped the Black & Mild's because they are really just the cigar version of Captain Black and probably have more fillers and junk than the pipe tobacco. (Captain Black is Black Cavendish with gold Burley.)

Didn't have the patience to follow Scarf-Ace's extended method this first time... wanted a quick NET to use in the meantime, then I can try a longer method. So just used xMackx's snappy method here (http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/liquid-extraction-tobacco/354182-pipe-tobacco-cigar-extraction.html?&). Filtered 3x through a coffee filter, and it came out really nice. xMackx mentioned it takes a few days for the full flavor to come through and just over night it smells so much richer. When I crack the bottle and take a whiff, it's pure Captain Black.

Mixed 10 drops to 5mls of VG. Now if only my VAMO would get here! Supposed to arrive tomorrow!!!