The 510 Connection- Time to Retire!!

[j4mmin42]

We need a new standard thread beyond the old 510 connection (which is what I started using 3 1/2 years ago). I just mentioned this in another thread, actually- the weakest point in the modern 2nd and 3rd-gen ecigs is the battery-to-coil connection, and while the Ego connection is a step up from that, it's still rare to see ego-threaded tanks, especially in the high-end market. Theoretically, it would be *almost* as good if everything had the 510 connection and the ego sleeve for added stability- but to be using such a weak, old, outdated standard that was designed specifically with the tiny old 510 batteries and atomizers in mind is insanity. We're multiplying the force placed on the batt connection by so much with all of the tanks, genesis systems, etc (plus big-batt mods using the 510 female connection) nowadays that it's no surprise that the threads are the first thing to break; Not to mention that all of these devices, especially certain tanks and genesis systems, are designed to be stored standing up- which is nearly impossible to do with the 510 threads underneath the base.

Just a short case-in-point: My old 510 atomizer weighs 4 grams; A 510 batt weighs 14 grams, for a total combined weight of 18-19 grams total. Keep in mind that the threads are also flush to the body of the battery and atty, which makes it much harder to "catch an edge and damage either of the connections.

My new DUD genesis system weighs 57 g; A chrome vari-tube (YJ version) is 97 grams with an 18650. If you go for higher quality units like the Provari, Siam Cube, Legacy, SB, etc., the weight of the device will be much higher even than that. But for the sake of this post, the combined weight of the Chrome tube plus the Genesis is 155 grams. In a best-case scenario, we're expecting those tiny 510 threads to put up with 8x the combined weight, or an astounding 13.5 times the weight of the coil systems. This doesn't take into account the added stress that occurs because of the added girth/length of the device/coil system overlapping the threads acting like levers, or the fact that in worst case scenarios, the multiplier itself is multiplied again an unknown amount when force is applied to it.

Again, it's no wonder that people are having issues with threads snapping off- it's time for a new standard! Hell, I would even be happy with the Ego standard if everyone adopted it into their designs, but that seems to be hit-or-miss, and it still uses the tiny 510 inside threads, albeit with the stability of the added lip. They also stand up straight on-end. Anyway, the 510 connection is like an old man at his last week on the job- He may still do the job he was intended to do (possibly quite well at times!), but the young buck about to replace him will breathe new life into the work at hand.

*Rant Over*

Happy Vaping!

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[PhreakySTS9]

I dunno, i'd really hate for everything I own to suddenly become completely worthless.

 

[j4mmin42]

I doubt everything would "suddenly" become un-useable. I mean, the 510 unit is getting old, but it still has a following for those who want cig-a-likes; Everything else out there, i.e. the larger form factor devices and systems, could be retrofitted with adaptors if something eventually came along to replace the old 510 threads.

The point I'm making here is that we're using the equivalent of a single horse to pull a fully-loaded tractor trailer. It will *never* be as good as it could be unless you replaced the old horse with a semi.

 

[windozehater]

getting the air stream away from the power connection could end leaking as we know it now, i liked the looks of how the elips sealed off the terminals but i'm judging it from a picture and its limited to one device. i personally hate the whole floating center pin, connection probs., always has a direct impact on draw, and the 510 doesnt allow you to stand any non ego tanks up without making some kind of caddy. your absolutly right j4mmin42 time for a new version, heck they do it every other week for the stardusts.

 

[PhreakySTS9]

I'm not just talking about that. All my atties, tanks, my vivi nova, my genesis, etc. Imagine a guy that has an AC9, a couple DID's, a Z-atty-Pro, a penelope etc. That stuff would become useless on new devices. I'm not disagreeing with you, i'm just saying there's two sides to the coin. I use a 510 to eGo adapter on my Lavatube because the airflow sucks on it, and I love the airflow from the adaptor, but i'm not sure i'd want to have to use an adapter on my Provari since it is just so damn sexy.

 

[The Ocelot]

I suck at math.

 

[j4mmin42]

I think I'll design a new system and nickname it "The Ninja Thread". LOL

 

[PhreakySTS9]

Also, another problem is that most genesis styles, tanks, etc. are much bigger than a stardust, for example. It would either look really weird, or the connector would be like the size of a quarter...

 

[j4mmin42]

I'm not just talking about that. All my atties, tanks, my vivi nova, my genesis, etc. Imagine a guy that has an AC9, a couple DID's, a Z-atty-Pro, a penelope etc. That stuff would become useless on new devices. I'm not disagreeing with you, i'm just saying there's two sides to the coin. I use a 510 to eGo adapter on my Lavatube because the airflow sucks on it, and I love the airflow from the adaptor, but i'm not sure i'd want to have to use an adapter on my Provari since it is just so damn sexy.

I have most of those things (OR CLONES OF SAID THINGS) plus a bit more (CLONES- I'm a college kid)- Imagine for a second that the thread pattern got bigger, so the adapter sleeve would accept the 510 threads and flush-mount to the tank, atty, etc- kind of like a doughnut-shaped-thingy. I think that would do fine in the sexiness department.

Although, you bring up a great point- whatever it is, it will have to be backwards compatible AND good-looking with those 510 devices attached.

Sticking with it is like someone who had $10,000 in VHS gear when DVD's came out- sure, you can watch movies on VHS, but DVDs, well...just look at the current movies section in your local department store.

 

[j4mmin42]

I suck at math.

I haven't taken physics in many years, so I'm a bit rusty too- but the difference in force applied to the same threads these days is on the exponentially-greater level- i.e. if you were using a small hammer to drive a telephone pole into the ground, which do you think would give out first- you and the hammer, or the pole? that's essentially the same thing as what I'm trying to say here. And to further muck up the analogy, what we're *aiming* for is a connection that would ADD stability and strength to a device, not weaken it- like using a giant, telephone-pole-sized hammer. Yeah, thats about right.

I REALLY need to get better at these analogies.

 

[Rader2146]

I'm a little in the dark in this issue, haven't seen the complains about the threads snapping off. But...you didn't mention anything about which devices are having this problem, material that the connection is made of, or how the failure occurred.

Personally, I'd look at the construction. I've dismantled more than a few 510 cartos and it takes a good bit of force to break the threads off of even the Chinese stuff. In fact, mid-typing, I just attempted to break 2 Boges to remind myself how much force it takes; 1 broke, 1 seperated at the tube. Point being, if you are going to pay good money for a high-end device, it should be at least as durable , if not more, as a cheap $1 Chinese cartomizer.

The proper materials are capable is withstanding the torture that we put these things through, the workmanship......maybe not. You might be pointing the finger in the wrong direction.

.02

 

[jeffjr464]

i vote for a metal luer lock like on syringes

 

[j4mmin42]

I'm a little in the dark in this issue, haven't seen the complains about the threads snapping off. But...you didn't mention anything about which devices are having this problem, material that the connection is made of, or how the failure occurred.

Personally, I'd look at the construction. I've dismantled more than a few 510 cartos and it takes a good bit of force to break the threads off of even the Chinese stuff. In fact, mid-typing, I just attempted to break 2 Boges to remind myself how much force it takes; 1 broke, 1 seperated at the tube. Point being, if you are going to pay good money for a high-end device, it should be at least as durable , if not more, as a cheap $1 Chinese cartomizer.

The proper materials are capable is withstanding the torture that we put these things through, the workmanship......maybe not. You might be pointing the finger in the wrong direction.

.02

I agree with what you're trying to say- somewhat. The problem is that most consumer-grade items are popular because of their cost and their ease of acquisition- this is the reason we don't see mass-produced american hardware at reasonable prices- and what we do see is limited-run, cost-prohibitive items.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that (in fact, it is another discussion entirely that doesn't belong in this thread), but if ALL devices were made of medical-implant-grade stainless, EVEN if they came from china, they would then be cost-prohibitive. Skimping on materials is kind of the nature of the beast when it comes to mass-production. The easiest way to solve the mathematical issue of the strength of the connection is to *upgrade* the connection itself, not to change the materials used to create it. Another side-issue is that if Genesis systems become more popular (as I expect they will), then continuing with the 510 connection would cause problems with storing the devices when not connected to the battery, as they almost always need to be stored upright.

Beyond all of that, it again comes down to the balance of being cost-effective and strong enough to take a fall from a decent height and NOT break off at the battery-coil connection. Keep in mind that an immediate, strong force is not the same thing as a constant force applied *relatively* gradually, to the point of breakage. This is where the concept of levers and the weight of the devices come into play.

As far as my experience with broken devices, most often I have had problems with the small female connection on the battery end loosening, and the extremely tiny center post becomes easily displaced.

 

[FranC]

I have 510 connectors on all my vv pv's and all have stealth (thin) 510-801 connectors. I use 801 Fusion cartos and the adapter gives a perfect draw.

 

[unloaded]

Not all threads are created equal. The connection between my Ody and Provari is pretty stout. It's taken the falls to prove it. Both sides are machined SS rather than plated brass or aluminum. 510 threads can be made stronger with the right materials and machining tolerances but the price starts climbing quickly. The Ody on a GGTS with the GG base is probably the strongest joint on the whole mod, it would be nice if it was a universal connection but that won't happen.

 

[Mr.Gene]

Once you start putting adapters on the 510 you begin adding another stress point that will eventually lead to another problem

 

[Cyrene]

I don't have any issues with the 510 connections at all. I guess I'm still such a newb that
I don't see any issues with mine. Or maybe you guys are too much of Hulk's and don't know
your own strength? lol. On a serious note note though, I like the idea that all my stuff can
fit on each other, and I don't have problems at all. I'd hate to have 1 thing that cannot swap
out with the rest.

 

[CayCay]

I have not ran into any problems with 510's. I do agree it's a ....* to stand up because of the threading but I would rather buy or build a stand for my tanks and clearo's than buy all new stuff. I'm sure one day 510 will be a thing of the past.

 

[Racehorse]

time for a new version, heck they do it every other week for the stardusts.

....and the stardusts still leak

 

[FranC]

Once you start putting adapters on the 510 you begin adding another stress point that will eventually lead to another problem

I've been using them for a long time with no problems.