~The Billet BoX~

[ThreeDJ16]

I actually haven't' found myself using the syringe in a few months, just the bottle... but I used to pull the plunger all the way out and just fill it from the back end.. then put the plunger back in and turn the syringe needle up to push the air out... Also to prime a carto in a hurry, you can force feed juice into the packing with the plastic tip, then once you have the carto in, push on the face of the tank with your thumb (gently) a few time until bubbles stop coming out of the punched holes.. i'm using a nickle mesh carto at the moment and find that every 5 or 6 draws i'm getting dry hits, so i slide the door down and give that tank face a few little thumb pushes, good way to force feed juice ita' that little sucker..

This is my go to carto filler: Plunger Fitting (Patent Pending) - MyFreedomSmokes.com
I bet you could make it outta SS and it would really be the $h!t...

And I fill the syringe with a blunt tip needle. Which of course will never be used on a the BB tank!!

-=J

 

[Doug Dino]

A Short story by Scubabatdan…..

Ha, that made me smile, thanks dan... and thanks seagull, for posing for the picture...

 

[Doug Dino]

Sooooo.... Doug's official RBA... Wonder when that's coming lol.

when it's damn well perfect!! ha, that too has been on and off,, & been down and out for a bit so i'm just getting used to being kinda functional again..... BUTTT, i have it down to two main designs that have legs, pulling the trigger on one is up to a few things,,, like cost, ease of rewicking, stuff, other things,, time, monkeys, i'v been drinking... space llamas...

 

[Doug Dino]

Have you considered spar varnish? I use it on teakwood and it works/looks awesome with a very durable finish that also has UV protection.
-=J

Nope i didn't, but I know that's a great product though, i should have a half empty gallon of that stuff left over from a little fence i built in our yard (but i think it was satin).. the thing that would suck though, is not the long drying time (like a day between coats i think), but the smell as it goes through that long drying time... ugg, my test mixes with nitrocellulose lacquer were pretty stinky too though.... well, just about any finish that works great smells like it's causing neurological damage....

 

[Silverdove]

ehhh, this looks ok i guess....

it's been an on and off thing bring'n wood to the table (to the BB rather) i just have had something close to negative 23% free time, but i'm close... this one is the first wood plate i'm really happy with, and that is mainly down to finding the perfect finish mix and method that's as hard and durable as i could possibly hope for on wood, lot of trial, error and test test test... this will likely never be a full scale production model due to material cost ( like damn) and hand work, but we'll have to see.... i'm liking' it though, and god knows i'm hard to please (like this one time i got a pony for christmas, and i got all pissy cuz it was the wrong color)...

That is just beautiful!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vapian]

ehhh, this looks ok i guess....

Dawmit, naw aw cawn't tawlk caws ahm doo biddy dwoolin'. . . .

(Thow id wowd beh evahn MOWAH boodifuwal inna BAWDSEYE. Jus' sawyin'.)

 

[Katdarling]

ehhh, this looks ok i guess....

it's been an on and off thing bring'n wood to the table (to the BB rather) i just have had something close to negative 23% free time, but i'm close... this one is the first wood plate i'm really happy with, and that is mainly down to finding the perfect finish mix and method that's as hard and durable as i could possibly hope for on wood, lot of trial, error and test test test... this will likely never be a full scale production model due to material cost ( like damn) and hand work, but we'll have to see.... i'm liking' it though, and god knows i'm hard to please (like this one time i got a pony for christmas, and i got all pissy cuz it was the wrong color)...

Yes, DD of (gorgeous wooden) BB... it looks OK...



!!! Mamma mia, that is stunning!!!!!!!!!

 

[ThreeDJ16]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Man, almost got my BB a day early, but somehow it got side tracked. My batteries and cartos for it came in early, but no BB. Was even going to go pick up from local PO, but sort facility monster has it and I am waiting for him to spit it out to claim my prize.

-=J

 

[Zanza]

I need help from someone who is using the Diver by Atmistique in his BilletBox.

My Diver is leaking from the connector and I suspect it comes from around the outer side of the brass pin that is not so tight fit in the insulator inside the connector part.... I'm thinking right or not ?

I think that usually a carto can leak a little from the bottom but as it's screwed inside a mod, the juice can't really pour out off.
But as in the BB there is no screwing of the atto but simply touching the connection part, the center pin of it should be tightly fitted inside the insulator.... Or Am I thinking wrong ?

 

[Vapian]

I need help from someone who is using the Diver by Atmistique in his BilletBox.

My Diver is leaking...

I'd recommend checking out this thread for the Diver. There's been some recent discussion there about leaks and the interaction between the center pin, wire, ceramic and base.

 

[ThetaReactor]

It seems the ceramic cups can be a bit flaky. I'd try a spare one and see if it works better.

 

[Darthpistachio]

It's with great regret and a certain amount of trepidation - that today I have temporarily banned my wife from using her billet box.

When I first acquired it for her - I noticed after a day or two of juice in the tank that I could detect a faint taste of nitrile rubber. I surmised that the nitrile rubber ball used to refill the tank was possibly leaching chemicals into the juice itself and as a by product the vaper would then be heating and inhaling heated nitrile components - not good!

I also penned my point here. However my wife stated that she couldn't taste it herself - so I let her carry on regardless.. turns out that was a big mistake...

This evening she came to me and asked me if her juice tasted a little "rubbery; like a water bottle smells"

I had a vape and it was VILE. It was like vaping tyre rubber flavoured juice - her particular juice in that tank was grape and banana and I have it in another standard carto tank - there was no comparison taste wise - the BB tank tasted like rubber!

She has another BB tank that had apple pie in it - when compared to a standard carto tank again there was no comparison but the BB apple pie only had a faintly detectable nitrile note - it was there though and detectable and did not compare to the standard carto tank. Obviously it was being more successfully masked by the more potent apple pie flavoring.

Boge carto's from the same batches used throughout..

I immediately banned her from using it - I am not letting her continue to vape from these tanks until I have sorted out this - I am not comfortable with her vaping what I inhaled tonight on a daily basis. We've done the research on all the other chemicals that are a necessary prerequisite of this "hobby" that cannot be avoided and we have come to a decision to risk those - but I have control over this and it is There and detectable.

I'm having a hard time believing that I am the only person who owns a Billet Box to have noticed this? Maybe other owners use juice that is so strong in flavour and nicotine content for it to be undetectable? But trust me - It was there- I offered it to 4 other vapers and their faces and reactions confirmed my findings also.

Maybe only certain flavours have the potential to dissolve the nitril ball - even so if the potential is there for that to happen design changes should be implemented!

I don't want to give up on this device just yet - I will first attempt dismantling it removing the ball and spring and implementing a silicone bung for the time being as a plug to see if that cures the problem. If that doesn't work (and I see no reason why it shouldn't) I will unfortunately have to sell the device as I will not allow the missus to potentially harm herself through it's use...

 

[Big Screen D]

I have five tanks with five different juices going. I can, and have not detected any hint of off or "rubbery" taste in any of them.

 

[ThreeDJ16]

It's with great regret and a certain amount of trepidation - that today I have temporarily banned my wife from using her billet box.

When I first acquired it for her - I noticed after a day or two of juice in the tank that I could detect a faint taste of nitrile rubber. I surmised that the nitrile rubber ball used to refill the tank was possibly leaching chemicals into the juice itself and as a by product the vaper would then be heating and inhaling heated nitrile components - not good!

I also penned my point here. However my wife stated that she couldn't taste it herself - so I let her carry on regardless.. turns out that was a big mistake...

This evening she came to me and asked me if her juice tasted a little "rubbery; like a water bottle smells"

I had a vape and it was VILE. It was like vaping tyre rubber flavoured juice - her particular juice in that tank was grape and banana and I have it in another standard carto tank - there was no comparison taste wise - the BB tank tasted like rubber!

She has another BB tank that had apple pie in it - when compared to a standard carto tank again there was no comparison but the BB apple pie only had a faintly detectable nitrile note - it was there though and detectable and did not compare to the standard carto tank. Obviously it was being more successfully masked by the more potent apple pie flavoring.

Boge carto's from the same batches used throughout..

I immediately banned her from using it - I am not letting her continue to vape from these tanks until I have sorted out this - I am not comfortable with her vaping what I inhaled tonight on a daily basis. We've done the research on all the other chemicals that are a necessary prerequisite of this "hobby" that cannot be avoided and we have come to a decision to risk those - but I have control over this and it is There and detectable.

I'm having a hard time believing that I am the only person who owns a Billet Box to have noticed this? Maybe other owners use juice that is so strong in flavour and nicotine content for it to be undetectable? But trust me - It was there- I offered it to 4 other vapers and their faces and reactions confirmed my findings also.

Maybe only certain flavours have the potential to dissolve the nitril ball - even so if the potential is there for that to happen design changes should be implemented!

I don't want to give up on this device just yet - I will first attempt dismantling it removing the ball and spring and implementing a silicone bung for the time being as a plug to see if that cures the problem. If that doesn't work (and I see no reason why it shouldn't) I will unfortunately have to sell the device as I will not allow the missus to potentially harm herself through it's use...

I received some soft drip tips once that were make of nitrile and man they tasted nasty (some people are hypersensitive to the taste / smell). I simply washed them well with soap and water with no more issues. So I am curious if maybe you can attempt to wash them somehow and see if that helps? Maybe washing two or three times. It could just be residuals from when the little balls where made. Anyway, worth a shot before doing any major mods to the tank. If not, wonder how well a stainless steel ball replacement would work for sealing?

-=J

 

[Vapian]

Currently I have (countcountcount...) nine tanks in rotation, and I've had 12 total over time, including the ones that got heat warped and are no longer in service. This is just my experience, but I've never had an off taste of any kind that wasn't explained by a cartomizer needing replacement or a bad RBA build.

It's certainly possible that some specific types of flavors might break down nitrile or something else in the tank over an extended time, but the type of nitrile compounds used to make things like the ball in the BB tank are generally considered food safe and stable at temperatures exceeding 200 degrees. Other than the dimensional instability of the original tank face under heat, all tank components are considered food safe and stable.

I'm absolutely not saying that it cannot happen, or did not happen in your case. It just seems unlikely based on the materials and my own experience.

If this were happening to me, I would definitely extract the liquid from the tank and find out if still tastes off in another device such as a dripping atomizer or another standard cartomizer, and do the same thing with the same liquid straight from the bottle.

If the sample from the tank still tastes off, or tastes off compared to the bottle, that would be a pretty clear sign that something is indeed happening in the tank itself.

Other things I would consider:

- What kind of cartomizer is being used?
- If the tank is being cleaned regularly with anything other than water, what is it being cleaned with?
- Does the tank still affect the taste when used on another battery (like an eGo type) or with another drip tip?

If testing were to find the sample from the tank still had the off taste when dripped in another device I'd definitely contact Doug and offer to send the tank back, along with liquid samples that have been used in the tank (or at least a list of vendors, flavors, nic level, etc.).

If any component is breaking down for any reason I'm sure he'd want to know, find out why, figure out how to fix it and do something to make up for the inconvenience.

 

[ohman]

I've had so many tanks I lost count... Never have had a problem... Why not try some flavorless liquid.. Its got to be your flavoring.. And or the carto... I've got a few of theses boxes in rotation and have tore up some stuff along the way.... Never any problems with my balls.:sly: 6 years now of mixing and doing and I've tasted me horrible stuff.. Almost always come back to base or flavors....

Glad to see DD with wood... Must be feeling better! He he.. looks great buddy!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Vapian]

Never any problems with my balls ... Glad to see DD with wood... Must be feeling better!

 

[Darthpistachio]

Vapian - I've done everything you've suggested and yes it more or less confirms that something is leaching into the juice in the tank..

It tastes just like rubber - well not that I've ever eaten rubber - but it tastes exactly like a new hot water bottle smells when unpacked for the first time. Boge cartos are what's being used at the moment and I've had boges in use for over a year now - I've had them go bad on me and they've never tasted like this - not with this particular aroma and taste.

I know that nitrile is GRAS but unsure for prolonged exposure to these chemicals - PG is a alcohol of sorts and certain flavours are known to affect certain plastics so it's not a stretch to believe they may affect the nitrile too..Nitrile can be quite sacrificial when exposed to certain chemicals - I've seen what happens to it when exposed to brake fluid it softens it and eventually will melt it or at the very least makes it soft enough to disintegrate from light pressure - remember that di-ethylene glycol (brake fluid) is a close cousin to PG ....
-
Silicone is a much superior material for chemical resistance - which is probably why the Chinese use it in their vivi nova's kanger bottom fed etc.... Viton rubber would be perfectly acceptable too as it has a much better chemical resistance than simple nitrile rubber..

It is indeed puzzling and not something I would expect. And the lack of other owners mentioning it seems to indicate it is peculiar to this particular set of circumstances - but everything I have tried to eliminate factors here always point to the BB tank as the causal factor - the self same juices do not have the same effect when used in standard carto tanks for long durations using EXACTLY the same cartomisers or indeed in any other atomiser - spheroid - taifun - dripper - prometey etc...

it's occam's razor - the simplest solution would seem to indicate that the problem lies within this house - but by the same token by eliminating everything else here as much as possible the simplest solution always points to the tank time and again...

It probably does not occur in standard carto tanks because very little of the nitrile sealing o-rings ever gets exposed to the juice whereas in the design of the billet box tank quite a lot of that ball is exposed for a much larger surface area for a more prolonged and consistent time.

this tank is the only design I've come across that exposes quite that much nitrile to liquid on a prolonged basis - in order to eliminate the ball I have to remove it and test without it there - it's the only way to successfully eliminate it or substantiate it as a causative factor really.

I've considered it may be a particular flavour but it occurs with nearly any flavour put into the tank to varying degrees - certainly the particular recipe I make up definitely seems to amplify it's effect. I've tested it methodically ensuring that my taste buds aren't already contaminated and I have always detected a faint odour and taste of rubber from the tank no matter what flavour was in it. Like I have already mentioned the wife never actually detected it until now.

I have tried all manner of drip tips to eliminate them - stainless - ceramic - acrylic etc.. - would never use a nitrile drip tip - eww !!

Note that it's not happening with a fresh tank and fresh juice fill -- it definitely occurs after a days duration or so - so it's a gradual build up and is confirmed by the taste effect over that time. It's obvious that I am particularly sensitive to this taste and aroma as the missus said it tasted just a little rubbery but for me I may as well have licked a lolly made out of tyre rubber! Of course she was probably suffering from gradual onset de-sensitisation.

I've ordered some silicone plugs of the correct diameter and I will be removing the ball and spring and using a plug and continue with further testing...

 

[Darthpistachio]

I received some soft drip tips once that were make of nitrile and man they tasted nasty (some people are hypersensitive to the taste / smell). I simply washed them well with soap and water with no more issues. So I am curious if maybe you can attempt to wash them somehow and see if that helps? Maybe washing two or three times. It could just be residuals from when the little balls where made. Anyway, worth a shot before doing any major mods to the tank. If not, wonder how well a stainless steel ball replacement would work for sealing?

-=J

That was the first thing I did the first time I noticed it - it went into the ultrasonic with a dishwasher detergent solution and then a clean filtered water solution. Had no effect


I've considered a steel ball bearing - but it would probably not make a good enough seal without a stronger spring to press it right against the plastic hole enough and it's debatable whether that would be good enough either. - The nitrile was obviously chosen because of its pliant nature and when under pressure the surface would squeeze to make a nice tight seal and stop leaking - steel wouldn't do that

 

[ThreeDJ16]

That was the first thing I did the first time I noticed it - it went into the ultrasonic with a dishwasher detergent solution and then a clean filtered water solution. Had no effect


I've considered a steel ball bearing - but it would probably not make a good enough seal without a stronger spring to press it right against the plastic hole enough and it's debatable whether that would be good enough either. - The nitrile was obviously chosen because of its pliant nature and when under pressure the surface would squeeze to make a nice tight seal and stop leaking - steel wouldn't do that

Well I am going to blame my back pain meds tonight, but I was totally backwards on my drip tips. Went back and pulled out my plastic/rubber tips (as I have moved on to metal only). Come to find out, it was the delrin tips that I was sensitive to and not the rubber (which I now see is silicone). It had that same water bottle (or I refer to it as blow up swimming raft) taste in which you are referring. Though after I cleaned it several times there were no more issues for me. Now that it has set up for a long while without being used and I compare it with a metal tip, there is a slight flavor difference for me.

As for the nitrile, after a little web searching, it seems that these are the chemicals that can attack it: ozone, ketones, esters and aldehydes. There maybe some ketones and/or aldehydes possibly in the ejuice your using? Here is a very interesting post on the subject for more information. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/324775-greetings-toxicology.html

I also agree that the SS ball against the hard PETG surface would be a tuff seal. Though being in the Instrumentation industry, I see plenty of metal to metal and metal to plastic seals all the time. Bet a metal encapsulated with silicone would work perfect as the silicone by itself might be too soft with a spring. But your plug idea is great too. Send a link if you have found any, I am just curious.

Really hope you find the definite root cause and an easy solution that works out.

-=J