The (polite) Clone/Authentic discussion! :D

[Bigflyrodder]

Like most here I have a mix of both authentic and clone gear and have found, at least on my adventure, there are dog rockets in both camps as well as gems. I have been lucky enough to find some really great clones in both mods and RDAs (the EHPro EA mod, Quasar, Stillare as examples) but have also had some terrible units that made me very happy I did not lay down the money for the authentic if the clone is in fact a 1:1 replica (Trident V2, Magma, and Nemesis mod as examples). I have had mixed luck with authentic gear as well but that could be due to my high expectations due to price paid. As an example I bought a Chi You which did not make me happy at all. The build quality was fantastic as were the materials but the switch made me crazy as did the topcap.

I have taken a lot of the pinch out of buying authentics by purchasing gear off the classies here. I get to try out authentic gear for much less than what the units would cost retail and I can actually get what I'm looking for. For me a big reason I have purchased many clones is that I simply can't find the authentics anywhere in stock

I will point out that if I have a clone that I love it is more thank likely I will also purchase an authentic of the same unit so that's a vote from me that a clone can be a sort of marketing tool if well made.

 

[Circa Survivor]

I was being civil. Those are my opinions, which I am entitled to.

A statement that insinuates that some people wouldn't be able to get into vaping and could possibly get cancer if they weren't able to buy clones is both irresponsible and reprehensible. Maybe you're ok with that, but I most certainly am not.

He's just saying that the price of some products might turn potential tobacco users away from getting into vaping. He could have worded it better, but no reason to get upset.

 

[USMCotaku]

Your comments are not within the spirit of this particular thread. There are plenty of others debating clones vs. authentic where they will fit in. They come off as deliberately confrontational. A proper rebuttal would contain information from your point of view, not an insult. Something like this: "I disagree with your premise, since there are many types of non-clone equipment available for those who can't afford mods".

Also, if you take what he wrote in the spirit he wrote it in, not the letter...I'm sure he ment vaping mods, not just vaping as a whole. This is a discussion on mods after all.

 

[Coldrake]

It doesn't matter what they were talking about. Anyone who smoked can afford an authentic mod, (APV or mech), or an RBA. You can find inexpensive authentic models of any of those.

Personally, I don't care what anyone vapes with, but to insinuate that without clones some people might develop cancer because they couldn't afford to vape is not only absurd, but as I said before, both irresponsible and reprehensible.

 

[USMCotaku]

Not everyone who used to smoke can afford authentic mods. That is just absurd to think. Some people smoke who can't really even afford that.....but coming up with 5 bucks is a whole lot easier then coming up with 200-300 bucks.......JUST for a mod, then you still need batteries, attys, wire, wick, juice, charger, ohm meter. So yes, there ARE people who would never get to experience the mech world without clones, no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise.

Disagree with the guys statement all you want....I myself find error with his reasoning, as I didn't start out on mechs, few do. What I took issue with wasn't that you disagreed, but that your reply wasn't a proper rebuttal showing your view point, but a personal slur. This is what makes the clone vs. authentic debate become so unpleasant. I've yet to see one that hasn't turned into nothing but a back and forth flame war. Just wanna keep this one pleasant for as long as possible

 

[treehead]

I think some clone manufacturers or the people who sell them use the term clone or 1:1 too loosely. Since certain "clones" are obvious fakes like a copper nemesis and especially a 26650 black copper stingray, but I've seen places claim a copper nemesis as a 1:1.

So there is no real Atmomixani Copper Nemesis? I've always wondered that because I've heard it exists and doesn't like 19 different times lol. I'd imagine as long as the dimensions are the same, a 1:1 can be made out of recycled lead for all that matters. But it makes sense that 1:1 means same materials and dimensions.

Clone's are copies with the logo, and replicas are clones with no logo right? This topic REALLY shouldn't have this many categories lmao . I think vape equipment should be treated like any other electronic equipment, unless you have a patent, it's fair game and you better hope you make yours better.

V3tronix is the only company smart enough to patent their devices, and the one cloner who attempted it, got taken to court and shut down. Get off your .... and you can actually achieve sweet justice!

Technically ALL of these manufacturers are cloning flashlights , one guy in the beginning of the vape universe, converted a flashlight into a mod, and then there was light. (or removed light lol)

 

[tayone415]

So there is no real Atmomixani Copper Nemesis? I've always wondered that because I've heard it exists and doesn't like 19 different times lol. I'd imagine as long as the dimensions are the same, a 1:1 can be made out of recycled lead for all that matters. But it makes sense that 1:1 means same materials and dimensions.

Clone's are copies with the logo, and replicas are clones with no logo right? This topic REALLY shouldn't have this many categories lmao . I think vape equipment should be treated like any other electronic equipment, unless you have a patent, it's fair game and you better hope you make yours better.

V3tronix is the only company smart enough to patent their devices, and the one cloner who attempted it, got taken to court and shut down. Get off your .... and you can actually achieve sweet justice!

Technically ALL of these manufacturers are cloning flashlights , one guy in the beginning of the vape universe, converted a flashlight into a mod, and then there was light. (or removed light lol)

I've never seen or heard of an authentic copper Nemesis, I've been told by B&Ms that sell them or employees that have them that it is not an actual metal used by Atmomixani.

"Clone's are copies with the logo, and replicas are clones with no logo right?"

I could agree with that.

"I think vape equipment should be treated like any other electronic equipment, unless you have a patent, it's fair game and you better hope you make yours better."

I think it's one thing to copy a design, but putting someone else's logos and serial numbers is not necessary. There are a few Chinese companies that produce cheap authentic mods and RDAs and RTAs that are about the same as clones and even cheaper unless you compare it to fastech clones.

I always wondered why clone companies made clones instead of designing their own original pieces? Every mod maker started as a nobody in the mod world and I think that even though some clone companies are coming out with new original designs now it won't be taken as serious.

 

[tayone415]

Not everyone who used to smoke can afford authentic mods. That is just absurd to think. Some people smoke who can't really even afford that.....but coming up with 5 bucks is a whole lot easier then coming up with 200-300 bucks.......JUST for a mod, then you still need batteries, attys, wire, wick, juice, charger, ohm meter. So yes, there ARE people who would never get to experience the mech world without clones, no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise.

If an ex-smoker is able to put away the money they saved each day not buying cigarettes they could save up and by a high end mod in 1-3 months, I get not everyone wants to pay that much and aren't willing to. I wasn't in the beginning so I can't put someone down for buying clones. But, I do think buying an authentic mod can be done if the person really wanted to get one.

I know many people say they can't see themselves paying upwards of $200+ on a metal tube that holds a battery, which IMO is understandable, but as most of us are ex-smokers who have spent thousands of dollars on disposable products over the years and have nothing to show for it. For some people it is harder to pay that much at one time.

Unless your a fastech only buyer or something similar you can get a cheap authentic mod for $40-60 and an authentic RDA for $12-30, which compared not most clones are cheaper excluding fastech.

 

[treehead]

i went with clones right from the get go, i actually didn't go with the beginner things when i started vaping. I went right away with Mech Mods and rebuildables.

Myself i can't justify spending 200 + vs something i can buy for 20 bucks.

I get hated on instagram and guys actually take shots at me, i believe one guy said i am a joke for having clones down in california. I looked at his instagram and he's getting money from the government, has a daughter, drives a crap car. I didn't even reply back. For those that feel they need to 1 up people because they are using clones don't deserve my time and effort.

I can afford authentic, but is that where i should spend my money? I personally don't believe so. To each and their own though.

ELITIST ALERT!!! lol you gotta love those people that get a rush from owning something expensive and "exclusive".

Like you, I can afford them, and sometimes I do buy an authentic, especially if it's the best quality, but often times, they really AREN'T higher quality. Some manufacturers like Super-T, JD Tech, MCV, Zenesis, GG (I've never had one, but from what I've seen they're slick), MCR, Reo's, and I can't think of anymore to be honest, they can't be cloned because they're TRULY good at what they do. They offer quality that would take a shat on the clones if they were to attempt them, I think the "exclusive authentics" need to step their game up if they're going to charge above the $100 dollar limit.

 

[treehead]

Wow. Those statements have to be the most utterly disgusting prevarications I've seen on this board.

Would you mind explaining? And remember to keep it polite. (All I implied was that if the only options vapers had were the $100+ vaping equipment, less would be able to enjoy this beautiful hobby. Did you see the word "cancer" and think it was a disgusting prevarication? I'll remove that word now if it makes you feel better.)

 

[USMCotaku]

Cheap authentics are often brought up, like the magneto...well I picked up my nemy clone, with an RDA, battery and charger, for less then just the magneto mod. Then later I picked up a panzer and kayfun clone, both together were still less then just the magneto mod. And while the panzer clone is better in quality then the nemy (panzer is actually great in build quality), both are good in both build and operation. I happily disclose that they are clones when someone asks me about my mode. I would personally feel silly admitting to paying 200 on one .

I average around 60 a week to spend, including gas, so my vape budget can not handle such price tags. It can't even handle the clones I bought really, and things were tight for a few weeks after. I love the feel of a solid mech in my hand (especially one as substantial as a panzer), love the looks of them, and love the way they hit. Without clones, I wouldn't be able to enjoy mechs, since even the "cheap" authentic mods are outside of my budget.

 

[tayone415]

ELITIST ALERT!!! lol you gotta love those people that get a rush from owning something expensive and "exclusive".

Like you, I can afford them, and sometimes I do buy an authentic, especially if it's the best quality, but often times, they really AREN'T higher quality. Some manufacturers like Super-T, JD Tech, MCV, Zenesis, GG (I've never had one, but from what I've seen they're slick), MCR, Reo's, and I can't think of anymore to be honest, they can't be cloned because they're TRULY good at what they do. They offer quality that would take a shat on the clones if they were to attempt them, I think the "exclusive authentics" need to step their game up if they're going to charge above the $100 dollar limit.

I don't get a rush from owning authentics, I do enjoy having them much more than my clones especially my new LE mod. I think $200 is high, but that's my limit anything above that IMO is being greedy unless the materials used are of the highest quality out there and in reason. I personally would prefer a few nice high end mods instead of having a ridiculous amount of an all clone collection.

There is now a higher end cheaper authentic out now, if you heard of the Doomsday mod it's about $120 for SS or brass, but they don't make a copper version.

 

[treehead]

I was being civil. Those are my opinions, which I am entitled to.

A statement that insinuates that some people wouldn't be able to get into vaping and could possibly get cancer if they weren't able to buy clones is both irresponsible and reprehensible. Maybe you're ok with that, but I most certainly am not.

Your right Coldrake, that was a little intense, but I assure you I'm NOT blaming health issues on relatively high authentic prices (you 100% misunderstood). Frankly I don't know how you honestly thought anyone would think that.

My intention: To emphasize cigarettes are bad, they have bad health affects, notably know for the "c word". (That's not authentic manufacturers fault though.) If only authentics were available...then it would (undoubtedly) be more difficult for some to manage as a hobby which is a healthy alternative. You CAN'T deny that.

I edited my statement though, so let's keep the snark opinions at a minimum.

"I agree sis , and that's the most humane way to look at it, as well as the most fair way to look at it. If competitive clone prices weren't trying their best to give us all a good deal, then vaping would be ALOT harder for some to afford."

 

[tayone415]

Cheap authentics are often brought up, like the magneto...well I picked up my nemy clone, with an RDA, battery and charger, for less then just the magneto mod. Then later I picked up a panzer and kayfun clone, both together were still less then just the magneto mod. And while the panzer clone is better in quality then the nemy (panzer is actually great in build quality), both are good in both build and operation. I happily disclose that they are clones when someone asks me about my mode. I would personally feel silly admitting to paying 200 on one .

I average around 60 a week to spend, including gas, so my vape budget can not handle such price tags. It can't even handle the clones I bought really, and things were tight for a few weeks after. I love the feel of a solid mech in my hand (especially one as substantial as a panzer), love the looks of them, and love the way they hit. Without clones, I wouldn't be able to enjoy mechs, since even the "cheap" authentic mods are outside of my budget.

Well that's why I said it excludes people who buy from fastech or similar sites, as you probably know places that sell Hcigar, Infinite, EHpro and Tobecco clone mods can cost more than a Magneto. I'm not bashing on you or anyone for buying clones. You're situation maybe different from a lot of other clone buyers, but for clone only buyers who buy a clone at least once a month can save up and buy an authentic whether it's $50 or $200+ since I see clones by better known clone companies going for $50-75. If someone really wanted to they could use the same clone and save up more money and buy a cheap authentic. I think there a lot of people prefer clones over a lower end authentic device and often times pay more for a clone.

 

[treehead]

True, and later they can be sold for a profit used or unused depending on the demand and how rare it is, Limited Editions or versions I think is a scam, but I fall for it.

Nothing wrong with buying something you really want! The Red Copper Limited Edition Stingray is, to this day, one of my favorite mods, because it's absolutely stunning, and performs even better! It's a beauty that'll hit harder than 90% of the market, I didn't buy it because it's rare though, cost me a pretty penny of $230 for a tube the size of a cigar in hindsight though lol.

 

[treehead]

I don't get a rush from owning authentics, I do enjoy having them much more than my clones especially my new LE mod. I think $200 is high, but that's my limit anything above that IMO is being greedy unless the materials used are of the highest quality out there and in reason. I personally would prefer a few nice high end mods instead of having a ridiculous amount of an all clone collection.

There is now a higher end cheaper authentic out now, if you heard of the Doomsday mod it's about $120 for SS or brass, but they don't make a copper version.

I hope you don't think that was directed towards you brother, I was just referring to the collectors that actually think they're hot sheeit because they own number 23 out of 40 lol. I totally agree with everything you said, I personally wouldn't take pride in a big'ol collection of cheap junk either.

But I have about a 50/50 mix of REALLY GOOD clones, and REALLY GOOD authentics . I have an eye for quality and performance, period.

 

[tayone415]

Nothing wrong with buying something you really want! The Red Copper Limited Edition Stingray is, to this day, one of my favorite mods, because it's absolutely stunning, and performs even better! It's a beauty that'll hit harder than 90% of the market, I didn't buy it because it's rare though, cost me a pretty penny of $230 for a tube the size of a cigar in hindsight though lol.

I just got my authentic Paragon v2 limited midnight edition for $200 + tax, not because it was rare, but because I really liked the looks and performance of the original Paragon I tried before using someone else's v1. It being limited and me being able to buy it was nice, but it forced me to buy right away, which I don't like, but it was sold out the same night I got it at the only local B&M that carried the v2.

I think of owning an authentic as an achievement, that I was able to save for something nice and I feel like even though it's over priced I prefer it to buying a few expensive clones.

 

[tayone415]

I hope you don't think that was directed towards you brother, I was just referring to the collectors that actually think they're hot sheeit because they own number 23 out of 40 lol. I totally agree with everything you said, I personally wouldn't take pride in a big'ol collection of cheap junk either.

But I have about a 50/50 mix of REALLY GOOD clones, and REALLY GOOD authentics . I have an eye for quality and performance, period.

No, I didn't think you did. You don't seem like a db like some people on ECF. If I did I wouldn't be "polite" about it. I do think that authentic devices need to come down in price and be more affordable, and the creator could possibly make less profit per mod but even out if not make more of volume. I have an authentic copper vanilla mod and if you know the authentics are far from limited, they're in the 9-10k+ serial numbers but still go for $130-175+tax depending on where you're from.

 

[Bunnykiller]

there are alot of cheap authentics out there too... for example the RSST ( 24$) best topper ( IMO) that I use for my ADV. the SVD from Itaste is an authentic 40$
but here is a clincher... Fasttech sells a "Panzer styled" 26650 mech (40$) but its an original since MCV never made a 26650...

 

[2naphish]

I look at fastech clones like I do unfinished furniture.

I've purchased a number of them. Not always the finest finish or perfect switch, etc. But with a little work, some of them can be dressed/modded to make them very nice devices. Anytime you shop for price like that that's probably what you'll end up doing in most cases. Not that they aren't worth the money; they just haven't been finished.

As others have said, logos are a different matter. I have no problems with polishing them right off. I haven't purchased any clone for the logo. I buy it because I like the design or concept.

I just bought a clone of the SuperT ELA. Extremely difficult to get a new one, though I would have pulled the trigger several times had they just been available at the time. They did a real good job making it, but the finish was absolutely horrid! Fired on its own when assembled, wonky switch, etc. Took it all apart and spend several hours refinishing and polishing, and correcting the switch and locking mechanism problems. Now it is quite a nice mod.

Just realize that the cheap mods are what they are.....cheap. Spend the time the original modmakers spent with theirs and you'll understand why the modmakers charge the prices that they do. They're really not overcharging, they're just doing the work for you.

excellent post...i wish i was as adept as you on the politeness. LOL! research is you best friend when buying a mod . sort out the "oooh i have newest best thing posts" and check back in a couple of weeks (or months) and see who is still (or not) happy... quality is quality no matter where it comes from, and a mod that is still well thought of after 6 months is a good mod. i spent a lot on clones looking for the right mech mod for me and a year later my signature will tell you where i am at right now. if you are in the game for the long haul, look at the good stuff. best of luck with your search.