Theoretical Vacuum Vaping

[Lopaka79]

Before I start: I am a refrigeration tech. So I have an understanding of entropy and thermal dynamics.

Was just cruising the ECF forums today ran into some "political ban ecig" stuff and thought to myself. If all hell breaks loose I could simply get a ported flask, make shift valve, vacuum pump and just make the biggest cloud the vaping world has ever seen without any burnt taste ever. The E-cig huka LOL. Thoughts anyone?

Edit: forgot to add check valve inline with vacuum pump. Don't want to be inhaling vacuum pump oil.

Video with vaporizing water with vacuum pressure.

Water Boiling in a Vacuum Chamber - YouTube

 

[Sovran]

I understand the concept. Now develop a pump that can create the needed vacuum small enough to mod with and efficient enough to run on a 18650. I have used vacuum boiling to make NA craft beer for non drinking(recovering) friends, but have never seen the equipment small enough to be of use anywhere but close to a wall socket. Not trying to shoot you down, just noting the biggest issue.

 

[Lopaka79]

Honestly not the best thing to be mobile. Though I believe the quality of vapor would be top notch since there wouldn't technically be an heater element or wicks, being that ambient temperature would be enough to reach boiling point. I'll purchase some glass wear, valves and hoses. Get some free time and give it a go. Would be fun to try.

 

[bacc.vap]

I'm not so sure it would be as satisfying, heated vapor replicates the sensation of heated smoke.

 

[Lopaka79]

Not sure either. Curious if the amount of vapor would be like shotgun hits though. Also efficiency would be out the window. Will probly start with a 10ml and then a 30ml amount of juice. I diy my juice so its not a large hit in the pocket.

 

[slimest]

Beautiful and funny idea
Efficiency of vapor will be great, but you have to spend a lot of energy to keep needed circs. I remember old good russian children's movie from old 70's where a boy is proud with his new electronic watches. This clock is able to show time, be an alarm, show short movies, work as a sound player etc. etc. But this guy has to carry an accumulator on a trolley
One more thing: good vaping depends not only on vapour amount, you also have to concider a heater temperature. A small liquid burning adds needed sensations

 

[Lopaka79]

My hypothesis is that the vapor leaving the vacuumed space will either be superheated (absorb heat) from atmospheric pressure and or dissipate faster than conventional means.

If you watch the video, the instructor had a hard time keeping his finger in the water because of the water being reintroduced to atmospheric pressure. Thermal dynamics at work . His mercury thermometer reading was highly inaccurate at 60F. I takes time for a mercury bulb to climb due to lowering or rising of temperature, not 2 seconds. 120F is normally the temperature point in which people will retract there hands due to heat.

It'll be fun non the less to attempt and see what the outcome will be

 

[acolyte357]

I think you would have the same issue that a piezoelectric device would have, in that the temperature is not high enough to kill bacteria.

 

[Lopaka79]

I think you would have the same issue that a piezoelectric device would have, in that the temperature is not high enough to kill bacteria.

Your suggesting what exactly?

Not going to even try to act like I'm some kind of biological science guru, though I would put good money down that using vacuum pressure to vaporize would be healthier than using heater elements and wicks, which remind you do burn and release elements.

 

[Bagazo]

I think you would have the same issue that a piezoelectric device would have, in that the temperature is not high enough to kill bacteria.

PG has antimicrobial properties. This is why it is used in cosmetics and inhaler medications.

Don't know about a vacuum hookah but I did try an ultrasonic inhaler last week. I had to add so much water to get it thin enough to form vapor that I ended up with 16 mg/ml from 100mg/ml unflavored e-juice. I thought that I probably wouldn't feel a thing but was left gasping and coughing.

Looked for info on my little inhaler and found that it pushes around 1.6ml per minute. I think shotgun hits is a fitting description.

 

[allenwjones]

I really like the idea of a low temperature vaporizer.. But I can see a different route to using a vacuum to boil the fluids.

Consider: You can create a vacuum with a pump as in the original video, but as others have pointed out this is not the most efficient device to lug around with you. However, could enough of a vacuum be produced from using a hydraulic piston to create a sufficient vacuum to boil the fluid?

This might be easier to manufacture, but would require some braun to use.. Imagine pumping up the vacuum like a BB gun..

 

[dr g]

I wonder if this is the same kind of boiling that happens in an atomizer.

 

[iamlenb]

same boiling I think - lower threshold for energy input to become a phase change instead of temperature change... was thinking siphon coffee brewing, but that's liquids... hmmm

 

[cadcoke5]

vacuum pump and just make the biggest cloud the vaping world has ever seen without any burnt taste ever.

I am sure you could create a cloud inside the vacuum chamber. You might simply make it a hand-operated device. It is not difficult to pull a fairly strong vacuum using a syringe and blocking the tip. Half a cubic inch area would be 7.5lbs of force.

I just did an experiment with a 2 fl Oz syringe. I tried it with straight H2O, 50% H2O and VG, and straight VG. I put a few drops worth of the fluid inside. I took in about 1/2 Fl Oz of air, and covered the tip with my finger and drew a vacuum. I could see condensation. But, when I tried to push out the condensation, nothing. I tried making the syringe very hot, by running hot water over it, to see if the heat had any effect. But, the heat had no apparent benefit.

I think the condensation I am seeing is just on the walls of the syringe. So, when I push the air out, all I am doing is wiping the walls of the syringe with the plunger. There is no significant amount of condensation in the air to push out. I think this is because condensation tends to want a seed for a droplet of liquid to start forming. In our atmosphere, particles of dust and bacteria have proven to be important part of forming clouds.

Super saturated air will form droplets without particles, but perhaps that process is negated by walls of the syringe, which serve the purpose of providing a preferred place to condense onto. Perhaps a chamber with a water repellant coating would be of benefit?

-Joe Dunfee

 

[dr g]

I believe atomization occurs because of flash boiling, and I'm not sure that happens with vacuum boiling.

 

[Paranorm]

This is an interesting idea... I'd be curious to see exactly how strong of a vacuum was necessary to create vapor from vg and pg. I'd think the viscosity of these substances would make the boiling pressure considerably lower than that of water, especially considering that the boiling point of pg is almost twice that of water (187 degrees C).