Thanks for your reply
Nicotine itself seems to have quite a low solubility from what I have read, is quite hard to extract using a variety of solvents (probably moreso than some of the other non-nicotine alkaloids). As i understand it, nicotine alone is a complex extraction, multi-step.
I certainly doubted that an ethanol extract would be as potent as in WTA extractions, after all if it were that simple, people would have been doing this instead of wta e-liquids for a long time!
But it still seems possible, that some, less subjectively significant non-nicotine alkaloids may end up in the extraction (for example the one I mentioned, and the bioactive terpene, have some moderate level of solubility).
Diluted in the base, as a flavour, this is may be still more insignificant, and those particular psychoactives, may not contribute much to the analogue effect anyway.
Tobacco extract, according to what I understand is not just flavouring though, any more than any other ethanol extraction is just flavouring. For example a concentrated vanilla essence is an effective pesticide for certain species. A frankincese essence can create opiate effects. Almost every plant has a myriad of bioactive compounds, and usually some of these compounds are in the ethanol extraction.
I have done this kind of simple extraction myself many times, also acetone extractions.
Just as some background on my quick googling on the subject:
N ′-Nitrosoanatabine (NAT) (A Tobacco Specific Nitrosamine) - According to this - Soluble in chloroform, ethanol and methanol.
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol89/mono89-7A.pdf
Anabasine - ethanol: soluble50 mg/mL
(±)-Anabasine ≥90% (TLC), liquid | Sigma-Aldrich
Linalool (the potent CNS relaxant terpene found in tobacco, ........., and the principle active ingredient of lavender)-
"As an aliphatic long-chain alcohol, linalool is clearly soluble in most solvents, including mineral oil. It has high solubility in diluted alcohols."
http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...17GstQ1na_9I3kZlA&sig2=xkr-AP8CfpkC_I7LTZ3Y0g
I dont think anabasine has a great solubility (I am no chemist), but it has some (better than in water).
Linalool should have a great solubility in ethanol, and while its not an alkaloid (its a terpene), it is psychoactive.
In fact it may be the most potent CNS depressant known to man, although it usually occurs naturally in very low doses, in things like the apparently unmentionable green herb, lavender and tobacco.
Terpenes are a large part of what gives things a taste and smell (along with flavanoids). Linalool itself, which I have smelled pure, has a spicy, floral note (even the smell of linalool has cns effects which have been measured in studies)
This is all just from my quick googling. Havent really done any deep research on the matter yet. And worth noting that tobacco essences are then further diluted in an e-liquid, whether the present bioactives would be subjectively noticable or not, its all about concentration as well.
I once was working on some extractions, where I was using acetone. Acetone solved on of the ingredients but not another similar compound. Ethanol would extract both. Just an example of how individual and case by case, solvents can be (starting to wish I had formal chemist training for this conversation!)
You can get nitrosamines from cooking bacon. I find it hard to beleive that the majority of the carcinogenicity of tobacco is from a group of compounds similar to what you get from flash frying bacon - but I guess its all in the dose, and exposure.
Again, not my expertise. I understand genotoxicity, and how that produces lung cancer, but not the specific carcinogens of tobacco. however, wiki provides this list:
List of cigarette smoke carcinogens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One small example of an additional carcinogen, is the naturally occuring cadmium in the leaves of the tobacco plant. Admitedly, probably alot of that list is combustion products, some of them may be added by big tobacco. Fortunately cadmium is water soluble
Anyway thanks for the discourse. Re wtas: Actually youve sparked my academic curiosity, re dvap. I may check that out. Be interesting to see how it works, seeing as I do use WTAs somewhat (not to try it, just to understand it. Be interesting to know the concentrations and purity it produces).
But more than about the wtas, I mostly wanted to know, if anyone knew, which of the bioactive compounds entered into a ethanol tobacco extraction in significant quantities
(ie what compounds in tobacco are easily ethanol soluble).
Given the flavour is diluted, and the effect may not be subjectively apparent to most (or to anyone) even at full strength, I guess this is more down to my own personal interest. I do not expect that such an extract will substitute for wta's, I only wish to know what is actually in such an extraction.
But given that every plant is made from thousands of chemicals, all of which have different solubilities in ethanol, the question admitedly, may be difficult to answer accurately or completely.
Its a shame, it seems initially at least, like there arent many amateur chemists in the online vaping scene.
[edited by admin to remove unnecessary drug reference]
Probably a good thing - Harder to gather information perhaps, but at least we dont have people vapourising pure single chemical isolates, just to see what they do!
[comment by admin - This has been moved to the extraction forum for just this reason. ]
