Too much nic? Something else?

[kilgoretrout]

Just thought I'd throw this out there to see if anyone has any comments.

I've been vaping for 8 days. Used to smoke just under 2packs of Camels every day.
For the past week I've been vaping 24mg juices (both PG and VG, all from the same supplier). I honestly didn't feel like I was getting much (if any) nicotine. I could vape pretty much as frequently as I felt like. Only issue was a little dry throat/mouth.

Well, I needed to order more juice, so I got 5 different flavors in 32mg w/extra flavor so I could cut them to 24mg. This juice is from a different supplier, but both companies I've tried have been highly recommended.
I vaped some of the new stuff (at 32mg) and after 2-3puffs I started feeling numb, my head was floaty and warm, and i just kinda wanted to stare at the wall for a couple mins. lol..
Any ideas? Everyone keeps saying that nic is slow with vaping.... some even say we aren't getting any. Well I'm getting something hardcore, nic or not.
So do you think this is some other chemical reaction? It happens with all of the new flavors and lasts about 3-5mins. It didn't happen with any of the old 24mg juice I had. (still doesn't)

I cut all the 32 juices down to 24 with the VG I have and it's less intense (and takes a couple more hits) but it's still there.
I do NOT want to smoke a cigarette with this stuff for sure.

Any ideas??

 

[Brewtus]

Just thought I'd throw this out there to see if anyone has any comments.

I've been vaping for 8 days. Used to smoke just under 2packs of Camels every day.
For the past week I've been vaping 24mg juices (both PG and VG, all from the same supplier). I honestly didn't feel like I was getting much (if any) nicotine. I could vape pretty much as frequently as I felt like. Only issue was a little dry throat/mouth.

Well, I needed to order more juice, so I got 5 different flavors in 32mg w/extra flavor so I could cut them to 24mg. This juice is from a different supplier, but both companies I've tried have been highly recommended.
I vaped some of the new stuff (at 32mg) and after 2-3puffs I started feeling numb, my head was floaty and warm, and i just kinda wanted to stare at the wall for a couple mins. lol..
Any ideas? Everyone keeps saying that nic is slow with vaping.... some even say we aren't getting any. Well I'm getting something hardcore, nic or not.
So do you think this is some other chemical reaction? It happens with all of the new flavors and lasts about 3-5mins. It didn't happen with any of the old 24mg juice I had. (still doesn't)

I cut all the 32 juices down to 24 with the VG I have and it's less intense (and takes a couple more hits) but it's still there.
I do NOT want to smoke a cigarette with this stuff for sure.

Any ideas??

sounds like nic buzz to me *shrugs* I'm no doctor, but I sure remember what the nic buzz feels like.

 

[secretsun]

sounds like nic buzz to me *shrugs* I'm no doctor, but I sure remember what the nic buzz feels like.

Yeah, this sounds like nicotine. When I first started vaping I didn't notice it but I do now. I always got the same effects from cigarettes too.

 

[kinabaloo]

This sort of observation is interesting and just might lead to something useful.

On the face of it the likely explanation is that the first suppliers nic content is lower than stated (or the second's higher). But wondering if the 'base' is the reason - and that's why it just might be interesting. I remember in the past I had the idea that nic release would be faster from PG based solutions than from VG (that might still be true though might not be that significant). As you tried both, the answer might lie in something like water or alcohol content, though it is not immediately obvious why that would matter (beyond visible vapor level). It would be more likely that such a factor would slow absorption rather than render some of the nic unabsorbed but from what you say, the latter would need to be the case. Don't know, but it is curious.

ps: might be oxidation loss; either because the inneffective liquid was old, or something in the base was aiding the oxidation of the nic. If you can see it, does the first batch look darker ?

pps: if there are factors in formulation that could have such significant effects, we certainly should try to get a handle on them.

 

[icemanx3]

I get the buzz...in fact, I wasn't so much on 18, a little more on 24...so I upped my orders to 36 and WOWSA...not so much a buzz but insane TH and I can smell the nicotine (if you've ever smelled the inside of a nicotine patch, you know what I'm saying). So I need to tone things back down, and stick with 24 ish. I will however always keep some 36 for those moments. And I plan to order some 18 for bedtime vaping. You may notice some of the higher nic juices will make it harder to sleep, or make your dreams more vivid.

ice

 

[kilgoretrout]

or make your dreams more vivid.

This may be a coincidence, but last night I was not only dreaming but also talking in my sleep. My wife said that sometimes I mumble, but last night I was straight talking.... a lot. I remember the dream and it was not good, either. (even worse when your wife tells you all about it in the morning... lol)
I can't even remember the last time I had a dream.

Anyway....

kinabaloo, this has certainly gotten my attention. It's very strange.
On your PG vs. VG nic release theory, I do find it interesting that I vaped almost all my PG liquids before my VG ones in the first batch. No reason I can think of. I tried them all first, and then all of a sudden the PG ones were going fast and I started mixing in VG and vaping it in rotation. I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it. Maybe it's also coincidence, tho... or the throat hit was better and I gravitated towards the PG for that reason? I dunno.

On the oxidation question.... no, the first batch varies in color from nearly clear to light honey color. I still have a bit of every flavor left, but a couple bottles only have a few drops.
This new stuff is yellow, pinkish brown, light brown, etc. lol..

Originally, I thought there was something terribly wrong with this new liquid and me, but I've been vaping it all day and nothing has gotten worse. I've since cut my main juice back to 20mg.

 

[Stubby]

Okay I have nothing to say on this but that Kilgore Trout is among my favorite fictional caricatures. Admittedly I've moved a bit beyond Kurt Vonnegut as of late (the last 30 years) but he was among my favorite authors in my younger days. You truly are a person of taste...... or at least a good sense of humor.

 

[StormFinch]

Your symptoms sound like you may be hitting the sedating part of nicotine absorption at 32 mg to me. Nicotine is a stimulant in small amounts, but as you increase the dosage it becomes a sedative. Personally, I started out at 18 mg and now vape at around 15 to 16. (Tried 12 and 14 but I was chain vaping on both.) I can't vape 18 at ALL anymore though. Just the difference between 16 and 18 will make my head swim within 3 pulls. You're varying by 8 mg when switching to the 32 mg which is a pretty big jump. If you break it down to a single drop of liquid, it's approximately a difference of .4 mg (if I calculated it right) or the change between a light cigarette to a full flavor, if you don't block the filter holes on the light.

BTW, both "bad" and "wild" dreams are often reported when quitting cigarettes.

 

[kilgoretrout]

Thank you, Stubby.
He is indeed one of my favorites. My mother gave me a few Vonnegut paperbacks as a kid, which sparked me to read all of his novels. I returned the favor by giving her a first print Vonnegut hardback at nearly every holiday and birthday over the years. She has quite a lovely collection.
I wish more people were familiar with his books. Many are missing out on a brilliant, beautiful, and hilarious writer.

Finch, thanks for the reply. It's very interesting to me that you experience such a difference just going from 15-18mg. I was under the assumption that a jump from 24-32mg wouldn't even be a very noticeable change to me, but I'm starting to think I was quite wrong. lol
I've been vaping the new liquid mixed to 20mg since waking up this morning and even when I vape it rather steadily, I'm not having symptoms like my previous encounter. All I'm getting is a very slight buzz and a satisfied feeling.

I think my main concern here was that I was getting a chemical that wasn't agreeing with me. I considered smoking a couple analogs while testing... not because I wanted one, but because I wanted to see what the effects were while vaping the new liquid. Based on reading so many responses about very little nic delivery from e-cigs, for some reason I was convinced that it couldn't be nicotine.

 

[StormFinch]

Good to hear that your mixed down juice is agreeing with you kilgore. I do believe that we get less nicotine from the juice than we would from tobacco, and we absorb it more like pipe or smokeless users, but we definitely get it. I also think we all absorb it at different amounts and rates for each individual. There's currently a study being done at Virginia Commonwealth by a doctor that spent quite a bit of time here on the forums finding out why his first study was flawed and we actually are getting nicotine. I'll be very interested to see how this next one comes out.

 

[kilgoretrout]

Interesting, finch. You can't stop progress. lol...
And I agree with you on different people absorbing it differently (as well as having differences in how they metabolize it, use it, store it, inhale it, etc) It would make sense that this would correspond to differences in effect.
I'm enjoying the 20mg. Plus, it will stretch my 400ml of 32mg stuff out to like 650ml of 20mg. lol.. (good thing I got double flavor! )

As an update to this thread.... I've been vaping my 20mg all day and I just switched back to the original batch of 24mg. It is now giving me a buzz if I vape a lot of it. (smacks forehead)
Wth?
I'm using LR cartos now, though. I wonder if that makes a difference? WAY more vapor than my old stock attys were giving me.

I've been thinking that maybe this just happened to be a 'perfect storm' scenario where I was replacing my analogs with 24mg juice, but then the spike of the 32mg put me over the edge? It's weird, tho, because on day 3 of quitting I was going through what can only be described as withdrawal. (probably from the other chemicals). I couldn't sleep, I couldn't concentrate, my mind was racing, etc. Weird stuff.
But the whole time (like 6 days) I had zero buzz effects. None at all. I thought e-cigs were a bad joke.

 

[StormFinch]

Supposition says that it's other chemicals in cigarettes that make nicotine more addictive. I find it interesting that as you drop nicotine levels you seem to be needing less, possibly upholding that theory. I'm betting that once you got all those other chemicals out of your system, (your three day withdrawals) the nicotine you used to need has become nothing more than the nicotine you now enjoy. If you're looking to quit vaping eventually, it definitely sounds like it would be relatively simple for you to gradually lower your levels to zero. Lol, now you know why some of us 'accidentally' quit smoking when picking up vaping, and why I had so much trouble with 18 mg after dropping down to the 15-16 range.

 

[kinabaloo]

Summary of post : I agree that nicotine alone is not that addictive (yet smoking is known to be fiendishly so) - and that is a primary reason why vaping does not work out for everyone (something that could be addressed).

Rest of post moved to the MAOI thread.

~~~

Back on the PG / VG and nic aborption, I believe that with VG there will be both more loss of nic through exhalation and a slower absorption rate of what remains. But I cannot reasonably estimate how significant these effects are. It might well be close to zero difference but could be, say, 10% for exhalation and 20% for slower absorption rate (just noticeable experiencially). It's hardly the most pressing issue, but might get studied one day, and that would be interesting.