Vaperev on Nitecore i4 with Sony VTC4

[Mr.Mann]

I was on Vaperev tonight and saw this posted on their product page for the Sony VTC4:

"Note: For safety reasons, we recommend customers do not charge this battery in Nitecore Intellichargers. We highly suggest users only use xtar brand chargers that are compatible for this type of battery as xtar's can handle the charging load. Please reference your chargers manual to ensure compatibility."

I contacted them about this and they went on to say:

[snip of unrelated discussion]

"... We do not recommend using the i4 charger to charge the Sony batteries because the charger only has one "chip" for all bays. Since the Sony battery is for high-drain devices, it will require more power to charge it. If multiple batteries are being charged at the same time, this will overload the circuitry of the charger and cause the charger to stop working. The XTAR VP1 chargers have one chip per bay and will be able to handle the amount of charge the Sony batteries require. Should you have any further questions, please let us know so we may better assist you. We hope you have a wonderful evening."

I asked if I could quote them on this and they said "You can quote us on this." If anyone wants to further expound on this, I would appreciate it. And for those that love the Nitecore, I don't mean to call your device into question, quite the contrary -- I would like you to chime in as well if you feel this needs your input as I feel safe in assuming that some of you are using this charger with these batteries. Also, if you are a Nitecore user, could you also state whether you have a V1 (white label) or V2 (yellow label).

 

[Baditude]

Interesting info. I'd not read info like this before.

The recommendation by Vaporev brings up the following questions: Is the recommendation only for the Sony VTC4, all Sony batteries, or all high drain batteries regardless of brand?

I have both the Nitecore Intellicharger i2 and i4 chargers version 2 (yellow label). I don't use Sony batteries, but I do use AW IMR high-drain batteries in all of my mods.

From what I understood with the Nitecore i4, each of the four battery slots monitors and charges independently, but intermittantly splits the charging between bay1/bay3 and bay2/bay4 simultaneously if multiple bays are used at once.


" The Intellicharger i4 is a universal, automatic smart-charger compatible with almost all types of rechargeable batteries thus eliminating the need to own several chargers. The i4 is able to automatically identify Li-ion, Ni-MH and Ni-Cd rechargeable batteries and apply an appropriate charging mode (Constant Charge Current (CC), Constant Charge Voltage (CV) and Trickle Charge). Each of the i4’s four microcomputer-controlled charging slots is capable of monitoring and charging batteries independently. "
- http://www.nitecore.com/productDetail.aspx?id=18

 

[Mr.Mann]

Interesting info. I'd not read info like this before.

The recommendation by Vaporev brings up the following questions: Is the recommendation only for the Sony VTC4, all Sony batteries, or all high drain batteries regardless of brand?

I have both the Nitecore Intellicharger i2 and i4 chargers version 2 (yellow label). I don't use Sony batteries, but I do use AW IMR high-drain batteries in all of my mods.

From what I understood with the Nitecore i4, each of the four battery slots monitors and charges independently, but intermittantly splits the charging between bay1/bay3 and bay2/bay4 simultaneously if multiple bays are used at once.

http://rtdvapor.com/index.php/battery-chargers/nitecore-intellicharger-i4.html

It is something to look into for 1) The I4 V2s are inexpensive right now + they are well trusted/recommended, and 2) Sony VTCs are all the rage. I have to believe that people are using the two in tandem. Granted I don't think they are saying this could be catastrophic, but still they felt strongly enough to add a disclaimer.

On one hand I am thrilled that a vendor would actually take a stance (too many vendors remain mute, or just say "recommended for advanced users"), but I also wish they gave a further breakdown as it does seem to conflict with what is stated elsewhere.

Vaperev Shop - Sony 30A 18650 Battery - Batteries

 

[NerdVap0r]

Hopefully this isnt a form of bad practice to push the higher end chargers off the shelves lol.

 

[KenD]

I don't understand why the vtc4/high drain batteries would suffer more than low drain batteries. The charging recommendations I've seen usually give a c-rating - indicating that the charging current is dependent more on the capacity of the battery than on the maximum discharge rate. Also, all information I've seen states that a lower charge current is safer. I'd get it that high drain batteries could handle a higher charge current, but surely they as well would benefit from a lower current. Seems all backwards to me.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[jpcwon]

I have a Nitecore Intellicharger (I4) and charge my VTC4's and VTC5's on it all the time with no issues.....Should I switch to a different charger maybe?

 

[suspectK]

I call bull.

 

[Baditude]

I have a Nitecore Intellicharger (I4) and charge my VTC4's and VTC5's on it all the time with no issues.....Should I switch to a different charger maybe?

Vaporev appears to be saying the Nitecore Intellicharger i4 has only one chip for controlling all four charging bays, making it in their opinion inadequate to charge multiple batteries simultaneously. I'm not convinced that this is true or backed up by bench testing or any scientific process. Their claim is vague and not well explained. The 4 & 6 bay chargers use PWM (pulse width modulation) to charge multiple batteries. It may take longer to charge multiple batteries at once, but I don't really care about that. My i4 has never shut down from charging four batteries simultaneously, as Vaporev says will happen.

Nitecore's description of the i4 seems to counter Vaporev's claim:

" Each of the i4’s four microcomputer-controlled charging slots is capable of monitoring and charging batteries independently. "



So what chargers does Vaporev recommend and why? In the OP above, Vaporev states: "We highly suggest users only use Xtar brand chargerS that are compatible for this type of battery as Xtar's can handle the charging load."

Then they seem to state only the Xtar VP1 will charge these batteries safely: "The XTAR VP1 chargers have one chip per bay and will be able to handle the amount of charge the Sony batteries require."


What about the other Xtar chargers? What about the other 4 - 6 bay chargers?


There are other high-drain and high amp batteries besides the Sony's. Is Vaprev making the same disclaimer for those batteries?

The disclaimer by Vaporev needs better clarification and explanation IMHO.

____

Edit to add: I see that Vaporev sells the Nitecore Intellicharger i4, but there is no disclaimer to not use the Sony or other high-drain high-amp batteries in this charger.

The Sony VTC4 is the only high-amp battery that Vaporev offers.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Hopefully this isnt a form of bad practice to push the higher end chargers off the shelves lol.

I thought about that.

Vaporev appears to be saying the Nitecore Intellicharger i4 has only one chip for all four charging bays, making it in their opinion inadequate to charge multiple batteries simultaneously. I'm not convinced that this is true or backed up by bench testing or any scientific process. Their claim is vague and not well explained.

So what chargers do they recommend and why? What about the Pila (2 bay) or Efest LUC V4 (4 bay) chargers? What about the XTar WP6 II (6 bay) charger?

There are other high-drain and high amp batteries besides the Sony's. Is Vaprev making the same disclaimer for those batteries?

The disclaimer by Vaporev needs better clarification and explanation IMHO.

I agree wholeheartedly with you.

 

[jpcwon]

I call bull.

Honest! But maybe I will order a new charger just in case.....

 

[Mr.Mann]

Honest! But maybe I will order a new charger just in case.....

What's slightly interesting is that the Intellicharger's elsewhere are ~$17 and at Vaperev they're $30. But then again, they're Xtar VP1s are not a bad price there. I think all in all, the Nitecore i4 (V2) are perfectly suitable chargers and it comes down to where you can find the best deal for authentic chargers that are known for doing the job you need them to do.

 

[jpcwon]

What's slightly interesting is that the Intellicharger's elsewhere are ~$17 and at Vaperev they're $30. But then again, they're Xtar VP1s are not a bad price there. I think all in all, the Nitecore i4 (V2) are perfectly suitable chargers and it comes down to where you can find the best deal for authentic chargers that are known for doing the job you need them to do.

Thanks for the info. I went ahead and ordered an Efest LUC 2-bay charger for my VTC's just in case.....I think the LUC will work just fine....

 

[Hermit]

I can't think of any reason why the Nitecore chargers wouldn't be "compatible".

The VTC4 is still just an IMR cell, to be charged up to 4.2V, right? So any voltage options are irrelevant.

Charging is mainly at constant current, and that current - i.e. load - is controlled by the charger (followed by a voltage limited phase, where the current is less). Stands to reason that any OK charger can "handle the load", since it's causing it.

One way the xtar VP1 might be 'better' than the nitecore i2/i4 for the VTC4s is in charge current - 1A vs 500mA. So it could be quicker. But that holds true for any cell that can handle a 1A charge current (which is all decent 18650s; it's only about 0.5C). (That nitecore i4 splits 500mA between pairs of slots is irrelevant... VP1 only has 2 bays!).

But comparing for better/worse isn't the issue. They raised compatibility and safety, and that's bull.

 

[IMFire3605]

I own not only the Nitecore i4 v2, but I also own an Efest LUC 4 bay. I use the i4 at home, the LUC4 at work. Yes the LUC charges my VTC3, 4, and 5's faster, but I also charge those batteries along with my AW's, and MNKE's on both chargers just fine. On my days off I make it a point to at least top off all my batteries on the i4 just for the slower trickle charge it does compared to the LUC4.

I have to believe this is a gambit by Vaperev to sell a much more expensive charger. Don't get me wrong, the XStars are nice chargers. All customers that come to my shop asking what charger to buy, my suggestions are in order, the Xstars, Efest LUC, then the Nitecore as the the top 3, especially for the sub-ohmer crowds. Just my 2cents

 

[beckdg]

it's malarkey. period. the battery doesn't determine the charge rate. the charger does that. my sony's, pannys and AWs all get charged on the i4 (yellow) along with my nimh AA and AAA batts... commonly side by side and/or up to all 4 bays with vtc4's. not once has my i4 shown anything near a sign of anything to be concerned of.

heck, if i had any worries, i'd get a few 18650 bays, hook up a balance tap and a couple bullets octopus style and charge my cells on this...

 

[jwag1973]

I use Sony VTC4's and a Nitcore i2 (yellow label) everyday with no issues whatsoever! I also charge my AW & efest batteries as well. I closely monitor all my batteries and the charger each time they're used. I've never had any reason to believe there's reason for concern. I'm in no way a battery or charger expert, but feel confident with the current gear I'm using.

I'd have to have some concrete evidence before upgrading my charger! I'm aware there are "better/more expensive" charger's available, but my Nitcore seems to be doing an excellent job!

 

[mykereid]

Oh heck, I just ordered a Pila: Best Rechargeable Battery Chargers: Pila Battery Charger & Pila Charger

Should I be worried?

 

[Mr.Mann]

I use Sony VTC4's and a Nitcore i2 (yellow label) everyday with no issues whatsoever! I also charge my AW & efest batteries as well. I closely monitor all my batteries and the charger each time they're used. I've never had any reason to believe there's reason for concern. I'm in no way a battery or charger expert, but feel confident with the current gear I'm using.

I'd have to have some concrete evidence before upgrading my charger! I'm aware there are "better/more expensive" charger's available, but my Nitcore seems to be doing an excellent job!

The oddest part to me is that while it would seem that they are pushing the "better/more expensive" charger, the Xtar VP1 they sell is only being sold by them for $5 more than the Nitecore. It would seem that they're making more profit on the Nitecores considering I can find a *new* Nitecore i4 for half the price they're selling it for -- so the benefit for them, if they don't have honorable reasons for the disclaimer, would be backwards. I don't really get any of it, but I may be be getting a Nitecore *yellow label* i4 to compliment my Xtar VP1. I trust smart consumers of smart chargers.

 

[suspectK]

Ok.. after spending time with a yellow nitecore i4..it doesn't efficiently trickle charge batteries. If they sit on there for about a hour, there is noticeable depletion of capacity..anyone else get this? I'll get exact measurements and edit with those.. I might retract my bs statement earlier. *

Sad to say that I'd prefer to have my old trustfire back I gave to a friend..."it says fire..but it says fire...yadda, yadda.."

37, ph0n3 h0m3.

 

[Lifted]

I do notice that "generally" the VTC4s charge a bit slower on my nitecore when charging other batteries at the same time. But it's nothing to worry about since the charger determines the charging rate, not the battery.