Vapor Mini Flask?

[TheJester]

Hi all. I recently ordered what's called a Vapor Mini Flask by Waidea ($46.62-$49.55 Vapor Mini Flask Style Temperature Protection VW mod by Waidea- Black I did the courageous/stupid thing and ordered it without previous reviews (seriously there is no information about this mod).

There was a thread on here somewhere about a very similar mod that had a LED light but this one does not. So I am not sure exactly what this is. Or what problems it has. It looks like a reasonably cheap authentic 50W TC device. I don't like that they sort of jacked vapor-flasks name but whatever.

It kind of drew me in. Small form factor, removeable battery, spring-loaded copper 510, Ni, Ti, etc. If it has the nebulous chip it might be worth the 50 USD.

If anyone owns one or has owned one for a while any comments would be great!

Figure I will give a review of it as I use it and post any problems I experience with it. I'm not new to temp control I own a rDNA40 and have used it heavily for the last 7 months or so. I guess that means I'll at least be able to draw some comparisons.

 

[sofarsogood]

This has to be a rebranded Kangxin mini without the flashlight. I've been vaping on the Kangxin version excludsively for several months in TC mode. Too bad this one doesn't have the light. I've found that quite handy but apparently the younger part of the vape market thinks it's uncool.

The kangxin is my only TC device. As far as I can tell the TC function is flawless, simple, and trouble free. I'm using it to fire several Tugboat v2 rda clones built with 28 guage, 1.0 ohm Titanium coils, fired at 380 degres (480 actual) and 20 max watts. That gives me vape quality and engergy efficiency comparable to 28 guage kanthal builds of 1.5 ohms fired at 20 watts. TC is a smoother vape makes rda's much easier to use.

There are several more form factors with TC I'll get eventually but I see know reason why I would stop using my Kangxin version of this device. In the long run I think close fitting tubular battery cases will fade away because they don't allow for venting a faulty battery as effectively as a box shaped space.

I wish I could get a silicone sleeve for the Kangxin.

 

[TheJester]

Thanks for letting me know SoFarSoGood!

Yea this thing looked like a great cheapy mod, thanks for confirming what I was thinking.

I doubt I would have used the light, but I'm not one for aesthetics when it comes to vaping. My only concern with the light model was it was another crack/crevice for juice or water to leak into. Ironically the Kangxin mini is about 10USD cheaper than this version. I wonder if it has had any upgrades or new features added?

I am really only looking for something to tide me over durring charge cycles on my rDNA40. Or if I wake up late for work to have a back-up. Or heaven forbid my rDNA40 dies. The Istick 20watt I've been using has been great for that but I'm moving solely to temp control.

Happy to hear 28gauge Ti is treating you well as I ordered some along with the mod .

 

[sofarsogood]

Thanks for letting me know SoFarSoGood!

Yea this thing looked like a great cheapy mod, thanks for confirming what I was thinking.
Happy to hear 28gauge Ti is treating you well as I ordered some along with the mod .

Ah, so the die is cast and your new mod is coming. Today the device surprised me by reading a 1.2 ohm titanium coil and apparently firing it with no problems. The spec sheet says the device will only read up to 1.0 ohms in temp mode but apparently that's not correct. I'm interested in this because higher ohms means more efficient use of power. Volts, amps, watts and ohms do not turn liquid into vapor, only heat does that. With temp control the quality of the vape should be the same regardless of ohms because the heat is the same. But a 12 wrap coil at 480 degrees should produce twice as much vapor as a 6 wrap coil at 480 degrees and the bigger coil should be doing that with less than twice the power because the higher ohm coil is more efficient--right?

P.S. If the insides of the Kangxin mini are made as well as the outside the device should run for a long long time.

 

[TheJester]

That's fascinating. I bet our devices will have the same chipset. I might give that a shot on my single coil supporting RDA's as a test .

The only issue and albeit likely minor with large coils and temperature control is localized heating etc. Meaning the center of the coil (or worse a hot-spot) could dictate the change in resistance/temperature rather then the bulk of the coil itself. Let me know how that treats you though, I am a fan of lengthy battery life.

I have sort of given up on Nickel for now though. It's resistance is simply too low(making dual coils is not possible in all atomizers), and being able to provide another order of magnitude for the chip to sense can only improve performance. Unless their PID parameters are too 'stiff'. Inwhich case it may take some tweaking with Ni/Ti purity settings to get the preferred vape experience. Hmmm, hmmm. Much to think about.

I am concerned as this device is made by Waidea, which unfortunately has a small history of cutting corners (glued in 510 pins for one of their vapor flasks rather then spring loaded). Then again the price is higher than the kangxin mini so it ought to be done right. We'll see!

 

[KenD]

Ah, so the die is cast and your new mod is coming. Today the device surprised me by reading a 1.2 ohm titanium coil and apparently firing it with no problems. The spec sheet says the device will only read up to 1.0 ohms in temp mode but apparently that's not correct. I'm interested in this because higher ohms means more efficient use of power. Volts, amps, watts and ohms do not turn liquid into vapor, only heat does that. With temp control the quality of the vape should be the same regardless of ohms because the heat is the same. But a 12 wrap coil at 480 degrees should produce twice as much vapor as a 6 wrap coil at 480 degrees and the bigger coil should be doing that with less than twice the power because the higher ohm coil is more efficient--right?

P.S. If the insides of the Kangxin mini are made as well as the outside the device should run for a long long time.

More mass will take more power to heat up. Resistance (in itself) doesn't factor in to the amp draw on regulated devices, watts and battery charge (lower charge = higher amp draw) do.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

[sofarsogood]

That's fascinating. I bet our devices will have the same chipset. I might give that a shot on my single coil supporting RDA's as a test .

The only issue and albeit likely minor with large coils and temperature control is localized heating etc. Meaning the center of the coil (or worse a hot-spot) could dictate the change in resistance/temperature rather then the bulk of the coil itself. Let me know how that treats you though, I am a fan of lengthy battery life.

I have sort of given up on Nickel for now though. It's resistance is simply too low(making dual coils is not possible in all atomizers), and being able to provide another order of magnitude for the chip to sense can only improve performance. Unless their PID parameters are too 'stiff'. Inwhich case it may take some tweaking with Ni/Ti purity settings to get the preferred vape experience. Hmmm, hmmm. Much to think about.

I am concerned as this device is made by Waidea, which unfortunately has a small history of cutting corners (glued in 510 pins for one of their vapor flasks rather then spring loaded). Then again the price is higher than the kangxin mini so it ought to be done right. We'll see!

The 1.2 ohm coil is spaced and so large I needed to use my 2 post Achilles to mount it. (With temp control coming on there should be more 2 post rda's available.) You are right, more mass must take more time or more energy to heat but the resistance does rise as temp rises, from 1.2 to more than 2.0 ohms as far as I can tell and that should improve efficiency. Nickel coils at .15 ohms ran down batteries fast.

I too like long battery life. I was spoiled by the Istick 50w. It could fire my 1.5 ohm, 20 watt kanthal builds for several days. I want similar performance from temp control and that seems to be possible with Ti wire.

 

[KenD]

The 1.2 ohm coil is spaced and so large I needed to use my 2 post Achilles to mount it. (With temp control coming on there should be more 2 post rda's available.) You are right, more mass must take more time or more energy to heat but the resistance does rise as temp rises, from 1.2 to more than 2.0 ohms as far as I can tell and that should improve efficiency. Nickel coils at .15 ohms ran down batteries fast.

I too like long battery life. I was spoiled by the Istick 50w. It could fire my 1.5 ohm, 20 watt kanthal builds for several days. I want similar performance from temp control and that seems to be possible with Ti wire.

Look at my earlier post. Resistance in itself doesn't affect the battery life (amp draw) on regulated devices.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

[sofarsogood]

Look at my earlier post. Resistance in itself doesn't affect the battery life (amp draw) on regulated devices.

Up to now I have believed differently but I'll take the challenge, remind myself of how I came to a different conclusion, and come back with that.

In the mean time what I settled on with watts and kanthal is a default vape of 28 guage wire, 1.5 ohms and 20 watts. What I want from temp control is about the same vape, about the same power consumption and the advantages of TC with rda's. Why do I think that a higher ohm coil, which is possible with Ti wire, will make the same amount of vapor with less power?

 

[sofarsogood]

Look at my earlier post. Resistance in itself doesn't affect the battery life (amp draw) on regulated devices.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

I went back to my original sources trying to figure out why we disagree about resistance and battery efficiency. An Android Play Store coil calculator I use has a feature that estimates run time and it shows more run time as resistance increases. On the other hand there are posts in this forum that dispute the idea that regulated mods are more efficient with higher resistance and work the numbers to make their case. I don't yet understand the argument they make but if I had to make a bet I'd say they are right and the calculator is wrong but that's fairly meaningless for me until I actually understand the math. So I plan to keep looking into the issue because if resistance is mostly irrelevent it simplifies my builds.

 

[KenD]

I went back to my original sources trying to figure out why we disagree about resistance and battery efficiency. An Android Play Store coil calculator I use has a feature that estimates run time and it shows more run time as resistance increases. On the other hand there are posts in this forum that dispute the idea that regulated mods are more efficient with higher resistance and work the numbers to make their case. I don't yet understand the argument they make but if I had to make a bet I'd say they are right and the calculator is wrong but that's fairly meaningless for me until I actually understand the math. So I plan to keep looking into the issue because if resistance is mostly irrelevent it simplifies my builds.

With mech mods you'll definitely get more run time with higher resistance coils. You can't change the battery voltage so the watts and amp draw are dependent on the resistance (and both will drop as the battery charge drops). With regulated (vw) mods the watts are set and won't change as the battery charge or resistance changes. The amp draw will increase as the battery charge goes down, as the battery needs to work harder to provide the same power. The calculation is: watts / battery charge = amps. That's modified by the mod efficiency (90% is a good number to use in calculations). For example: 60w on a battery at 4v = 15 amps. 60w on a battery at 3v = 20 amps (about 16.5 vs 22.2 when accounting for mod efficiency). TC mods will of course fluctuate the watts so the calculations aren't that simple.

Check steam-engine.org. You can compare amp draws etc for unregulated, vw, and vv there (as well as check coil builds and a lot more).

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Up to now I have believed differently but I'll take the challenge, remind myself of how I came to a different conclusion, and come back with that.

Im afraid the laws of physics wont really care about your opinion/conclusions on this one!!

 

[TheJester]

@KenD and @TheotherSteveS
I definitely agree that an 'ideal' regulated device should have the same battery life in theory. In practice, when it comes to Temperature control, I'm not entirely convinced (yet). I guess the question sort of becomes, how much power is lost due to heat in tuning the watts constantly. Ideally less power is used over-all but it depends on electronic factors I don't know much about (DC-DC converter efficiency, quisscent current of the microcontroller performing TC calculations/sensing, screen changes, etc). Then I think it's a matter of do 'larger' coils have greater resistive flux or less flux than small coils?

At first glance we might assume that the wire acts uniformly with respect to heat creation/dissipation, but anyone who has charged nichrome to red hot knows it glows from the center out. Could be fun to do some tests with regards to this. Then again it may in the end depend on the mod and the method.

 

[sofarsogood]

Im afraid the laws of physics wont really care about your opinion/conclusions on this one!!

If I was in physics class and the teacher asked me to go to the blackboard and show why ohms don't matter in a regulated mod I couldn't do it but, for now, I'll take it on faith and see where that goes.

 

[TheJester]

So I had my first day with this device today. Here's my run down

Hard-ware/External:
Durability - dropped it off a 40ft roof and it broke. I'm unimpressed. Just kidding, it 'feels' durable, that's the only testing I've done.

Palm feel - excellent!!!

Pocket feel - really nice, it molds to my leg I dig it.

Battery access/securing - Very secure, easy to access but requires a coin or similar. Threads are very nice. All my batteries fit easily.

Fire button - nice and clicky, not cheap.

Button rattle - no rattle whatsoever

510 pin - appears to be genuinely spring loaded not 'glue-loaded'. Came with some black plasticy stuff on it but was easily cleaned.

510 threads - well done. My atomizers go on like butter. 10 steps above an IStick 20w.

Bottom air-flow - has bottom airflow but maybe most importantly a 'juice catch' ring. Nice feature!

Coating -Feels durable. Reflects heat! I grabbed it while charging and it felt warm but that was because my hands were warm. Tested against my cheek and it was room temperature.

Charging - Can charge at 5V 1A (pretty quick!) and it didn't splode on the first trial.

Screen - Slightly magnified by a lens/cover. Nice touch!

Charge port - on the bottom. Kind of inconveniant but also less likely to be exposed to juice and other stuff.

Blemishes - Nothing to mention, seems to be machined nicely. One Tiny gripe that may unhinge a severely OCD person. There is a maybe 0.25mm gap between the black metal chasis and the lid by the fire button side. I don't anticipate that all models have that, but mine does. So I mentioned it.

Chip:
Temp Control - No manual over-ride for TC so it is done automatically. Automatically detects new coils(and asks if they are new). Seems to fire reasonably accurately(better than a DNA40) with Ti wire despite only officially supporting Ni200.

Watt adjustment speed - slow at first but scrolls very quickly. Not bad, but could be fine tuned a tiny bit more. Not as bad as videos I've seen of some pricier mods.

Kanthal - fires kanthal as expected. I didn't do any electronics tests but it doesn't seem out of the usual behavior for a high end mod (comparison to DNA40).

Battery life indicator - Actually reasonably accurate! Unlike my DNA40 this thing depletes gradually during useage and increases while charging!

Packaging:
Professionality - Very nice packaging. Instructions were easy to read and somewhat humerous(they included a tidbit about how magic beans detect new atomizers). One small typo ("steal" mode vs stealth mode, woops). I like the hard plastic case and will keep it around.
Extras - Came with a braided micro USB cable.

Comparison
Compared to the rDNA40 Vapor Shark (authentic). I am honestly leaning towards the vapor mini flask. It weighs less, and is only slightly larger (<1cm in height with other dimensions being comparable). The battery is more secure and I feel far safer from juice than the rDNA40 is.

Compared to an istick 20w - Hah. Not even going to bother. It's leagues better!

Day 1 conclusion
Why has no one heard of this mod? If it holds up it will likely be the best $50 I spent on a mod. If it doesn't hold up I will be posting back here unhappy and ...... off.

 

[TheJester]

So here is the week and a half update and some more things I noticed.

Battery Indicator - Says it's slightly lower than it actually is, which is better than saying it's higher than it is. But again the battery indicator does follow the actual battery life.

Device warmth - Device gets slightly warm when chain vaping. Kind of concerning. It never gets hot, but I don't use it for more than 20 min straight.

Temperature control - titanium works great. It's better to undershoot titanium temp by maybe 30*F. Also it's important to have the watts kind of high (25-30) with airy atomizers for a satisfying vape IMO. Pretty normal.

Week 1+ Conclusion
Still a great mod. I use it just as much or more than my rDNA40. I would reccommend it. Again I'll be using it heavily and posting about any issues I run into.