Venting battery mod

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VaporX

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There is no real answer for size yet, as no one has really done testing. but bigger the better there is a lot of energy in a lithium cell

as for position, remember the venting gasses could cause a good bit of force so somewhere that would aim the mod away from your face if it were to fly from your hand(for example not the bottom)
 

Rocketman

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There is no real answer for size yet, as no one has really done testing. but bigger the better there is a lot of energy in a lithium cell

as for position, remember the venting gasses could cause a good bit of force so somewhere that would aim the mod away from your face if it were to fly from your hand(for example not the bottom)


If you vent it at the top to propel it away from your face then the rocket type exhaust plume will fry your face. Some may not care how PRETTY they are AFTER a LI-ion venting experience, but I'm not all that pretty now.

If you vent it along the side to propel it in a spiral then hold it in your NON DOMINANT HAND so you can still wave to people from your hospital bed.

If you vent it from the bottom with a suitable sized vent I doubt there will be enough thrust to propel the entire MOD far enough down your throat that someone could not dislodge it with the Heimlich Maneuver.
Never Vape alone. :)

Never vape a pipe bomb.

Maybe vent size or blow out plugs should be tested to determine what is adequate.

The Rocketman
 
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Silverthorn181

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If you must..... The Bottom. ONLY the bottom. If you need convincing have a look in at the other forum of the results of Detonator Rob's mod venting in his pocket with his outwards facing vent holes. A nice black burn hole in his leg. Not a little one. A great big go to hospital one. Note that the vent holes did little to prevent the explosion but only directed venting material into his leg as it blew. The problem with trying to vent nasty hot gases is that they are expanding rapidly and usually are accompanied by a shock wave that makes all but carefully designed vent paths infective. They can do almost as much damage as they are venting as a big bang would. In the event of a slow vent they are great to prevent gas building to the point of bang but in a rapid failure prevention is the only effective solution.

This is real... It has happened and will happen again....

Having said that.............. Detonator........ Think about it!!!!!
 

Rocketman

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I'll toss out an idea I use. Little vent, big blowout plug.
Front needs to be much stronger than .... end
Robert's Detonator vents didn't relieve enough pressure to keep entire .... cap from blowing off. The failure of the batteries was bad, the way the flashlight came apart was good. Vents won't be enough if the Li-ion cells let loose. Which end would YOU like to come apart if the MOD is in your pocket? Don't matter really. Which end do you want to come apart if next to your face? That matters. Unless a MOD is designed to totally contain a "worst case blast", partial containment via "shaped discharge path" is the best we can do.
Here is an example: Front is metal, peened and rolled, epoxy back up on inside.
.... is tapered plug (looks almost like a penny) glued into .... cap.

guess what is going to go first and yes if the single 18650 protected cell goes and it is in my pocket, it will hurt.

Rocket
 
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Silverthorn181

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Couldn't agree more. Let it out without pressurizing it!! In pocket or in your hand or next to your face. The result is the same. I think the bottom like you have your vents in the picks of your switch mod is best.... Every single time. Far less likely to be venting into something soft and squishy with blood flowing through it!! Side vents make no sense at all!! And as you say an easy blow and or low melt point large plug is best.

What you show in your Switch Mod pics is about as good and as safe as I have seen. The less pressure that can build the better. At least if the device vented in your pocket there would be a very good chance the venting gasses would blow (Under far less pressure) past your soft squishy bits and not at 90 degrees directly into your leg. Same in your hand. Gasses out the back not into your fist!!

Path of least destruction.

You've built in redundant safety!! Protected Bats and an intelligent just in case system should the protection fail!! I also think we tend to get just a little complacent around protected Batteries. Safety precautions on all battery powered devices is not lost. :)
 
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Rocketman

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well mrtuna it's like this :)
Smart charger should never fail and burn your house down,
Protection circuit in protected batteries should never fail,
Battery or MOD should never short out and blow your front teeth out,
Both batteries in a stack battery MOD should have equal charge and residual capacity and degrade equally,
Your MOD regulator should STOP conducting current when the input voltage is too low to provide design vaping voltage,
But .... happens.

If everything works as designed, and is designed well then the safety issue is on the other side of the attomizer, not the MOD side.

But users sometimes disregard the little hints that the MOD is trying to tell them, like I used to be able to vape for 12 hours off a charge, but now only 4. Or vapor has stopped, maybe it's just a clogged carto, I'll keep puffing and it will probably clear up.
Or, I don't really need to check this two cells with a voltmeter, they LOOK OK, and they are only 8 months old.

Out of all the ways that a Li-ion battery can hurt you I think the one that has the best chance of catching you by surprise is a cell that has been discharged below the "don't go that low point" and is put in a MOD with a "better cell" and you try and draw 2 amps off it. Good chance for a BLAM right then and there. The loop voltage (aw not again Rocket) has the Good cell with a lot of volts in series with a bad cell with no so many volts in series with a Genuine Joye 2.2 ohm atty (fact that there is a regulator in there doesn't matter at this point). The voltage in this series circuit can actually try and reverse charge the bad cell as soon as you pull the trigger. Not good.

The 3.0 volt Li-ion cells that are really 3.6 volt cells and sometimes get overcharged by 3.9 volt chargers and have a stupid little circuit board inside the cell casing to drop down to 3.0 to 3.2 as soon as you draw a little current can show 3.6 volts with a meter without any load and be bad. Have no capacity left in them. Measure good with a meter, ain't no good. Now under load they would show bad, but with no load could measure good.
Even if you didn't put one in backwards, the weak cell thinks it is in backwards as soon as current is flowing.
Some 5 volt MODs have a design problem. 2.5 volts from a bad cell and 3.2 volts from a good cell and the regulator has no problem giving you 5.0 volts. puff puff puff. Then the bad cell drops to 2 volts, and the good cell drops to 3.0 volts and the regulator will try it's hardest to give you 5.0 volts but just can't make it so you get maybe 4.5 volts to the atty. Sort of vapes, maybe a little weaker, but vapes. The regulator should STOP, but most keep on trying, all the way down to about 3 volts in and giving you 2.5 volts out, trying as hard as it can to give you 5.0, but it can't. It shouldn't try, it should stop when it can't output design volts, shut down, STOP. But most don't.

So what happens when you put a load on an almost dead Li-ion battery?

Blam
Damn, thought it was getting a little weak, guess I should have stopped.

Now, has your MOD been designed to deflect that blast away from your face?

Sure hope the previous has put your worried mind as ease.

Enjoy vaping,

Rocket

and I will not go back and read that to see if it really made any sense or not.
 

Rocketman

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Mr X,
Unless you try to contain the discharge without out a vent/blowplug it is probably more like a blowtorch than a rocket. Exploding MODs end up with a large internal pressure before "blowing up" only if the pressure can't get out.
The different between a roman candle and an M-80. Both have about the same energy. Neither would be fun in your pocket.
Maybe we could ask Robert, he has first hand experience.
 

Rocketman

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I have seen the results of several 18650 unprotected batteries going, but not one in person. It not really a solid turning to gas deal. It's where the cell guts are going to go, and how fast can they get out of there.
We get to dispose of several laptop packs which typically have 3 parallel strings of 3 series connected unprotected 18650 cells in them. I have yet to see a cell case do any more than split. Just the end cap blown off and the guts spilled. Melted plastic, but I have never heard of a laptop taking off like a Rocket from a battery pack failure. A copperpipebomb mod is about 5 ounces total weight. In model rocketry, 5 ounces is HEAVY. Rockets (open ended) start off slow, and little extra weight and they don't go anywhere. A gun is different,
I'll still use the comparison of the Roman Candle which is encased in a cardboard tube that you hold in your hand, and point at your sister, to an M80 that trys to hold in the explosion until it can't anymore, BLAM.
I totally agree that sides vents would do nothing more than burn your hand so that you drop it, and then heaven knows where that rocket will go :). Please no more side vents on stack battery mods.
It seems we have a difference of opinion as to where to put the vent, blowout plug on a high voltage mod, which is odd because I don't do high voltage mods.
My opinion, take it or leave it folks (you should quit smoking and quit vaping):
I don't like stacked (or side by side) unprotected batteries.
I don't think a small vent, by itself is enough to protect you,
I don't think a "containment vessel" is portable.
If your mod blows, hopefully it doesn't hold over 1000 psi before it comes apart
(I've seen pressure vessels fail)
I like (opinion here) a blowout plug that will rapidly release at less than maybe 30 PSI, that is at least as large as the end cap of the cell you are using.
I like a vent to keep gas pressure from slowly building up.
Attys only weigh 4 to 6 grams, and I now know why it's called a Silver Bullet
(sorry couldn't resist that one :) )
I don;t like plastic boxes and glue to keep an atty from being shot down my throat,
Especially one with the atty directly in front of the Li-ion charge :)
(sorry box mod guys)
I have more opinions, but I guess yall had that figured out by now :)

Rocket
 

Rocketman

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Teeth knocked out by a mod that tried to contain it, bad,
Leg burnt from mod blowing the endcap and venting FIRE thru the side vents, bad,
and the parts went WHERE? in those two examples?

Robert's Detonator had a problem with cell protection, electrical safety features, bad,

The detonator blew the end cap, and did not send shrapnel into the next county, his pants pocket was strong enough to contain the blast, he found every little piece, good

SO the lesson here is, wrap a pair of pants around your stack battery mod, that has a blowout plug :)

I wonder if a leather wrap would be a safety feature, and not just BLING?

Rocket,
 

BuzzKill

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NO dont try it . You can see guys playing with Li-ions on youtube blowing them up. Like this ,

Fortunately they mention several safety steps to take in this video,

DO NOT TRY THIS !!!!!!

this is for informational purposes ONLY !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcpANRFrI4&feature=fvw

The smart thing is to have better safety circuits in the mods IMO , there are all kinds of IC's that can provide several levels of protection for Li batts. including discharge / charge / temp. etc.
 
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Rocketman

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that looks like fun.
blew all the guts out of the foil pack.
These RC guys are generally crazy anyway, hehe.
I think one of the comments in the first video was to store them in a metal box,
now that would be cool. Shrapnel.
Of course those were the safer Li-po packs, right?
and it blew stuff 8 to 10 feet away, BLAM.
That's why I stuck with Nimh and Nicad packs in my RC cars
and electric planes. A blown pack sort of messes with aerodynamics of a plane.
Rocket
 
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