Volts still king?...

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fat1

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Is the information I am locating old or am I crazy?

The thing I see repeated mostly is go low resistance to get more heat....Low resistance heats up faster giving a better hit...However, in my limited experience with my kayfun on DNA 30 clone I am seeing thicker wire or smaller coils or dual coils or however you want to go about getting to 1.5 ohm or lower taking longer to glow when tweaking the final coil before wicking and completing the build. Slow enough to perceive clearly with the naked eye. In real world usage this means a slower hit, longer draws, etc. As of late, I have been building and pushing higher resistance and the results have been, well, fantastic. Currently running 2ohm ~ 30w/7.7v, 8mg nic and it seems way more hardcore than any of the 1ohm or less builds.

My thoughts/experience says this:

Mathematically speaking it makes sense because in the end, despite all the other info out there, volts are king. I've been at this a long time just not an active member. I read the information, placed the orders, find something that works and use it for a couple years. I started out like everyone else on the throw aways and cigalikes, as a proof of concept, had the same thought everyone else did that these would work to get off tobacco if they were better. The first real setup was the silver bullet, but to quit, it was HV vaping with stacked batteries in that device that did the trick. Volts were king.

I completely understand the LR movement and sub-ohming for mech mods and people who didn't want to stack batteries. But now with all these regulated mods why is the belief that LR and watts are "Still king" when in reality they never were it has always been about the volts? Is it just a mass of the uninformed and or am I plain out wrong?

Even in rip trippers video about wicking high VG content in RTAs he starts out stating "on a hardcore build" (1.8ohm ~ 27w). Well what makes that hardcore when most of his device reviews show many shots of him vaping 25w-100w? The answer is the Volts.

I understand not everyone wants the heat. And that is probably what I am referring to when I talk about hardcore but I have helped many people quit smoking with e-cigs, even people who have tried them before and the difference has always come down to the volts. Even for people with VW or VV mods. They only seem to be satisfied with the performance when the volts are 6+.

So I guess the point of this was a question asking is everyone else seeing the same thing regarding resistance of coil in high powered REGULATED devices? Am I just reading in the wrong sections? I just see a lot of people recommending LR builds, even sub-ohm builds to people who think they want more vapor to help quit smoking but the reality is they probably want more heat and just don't realize it. There is a difference between producing more vapor and trying to quit tobacco...

Sorry for the above mess. Not really sure how to write what I am trying to say and ask in the same post so it just rambled/ranted.
 

Kaezziel

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I'm not really sure what your main point is. I think you're saying high voltage vapes are "satisfying" but that's completely subjective

if you understand the relationship between wattage, voltage, and resistance, it's not hard to coil a build that's to your specifications.

Like KurrptSenate said...
and I would add that volts and watts are so closely related that you can't really say that one is better than the other... it's like Jack Daniels and Coke.......
Lower resistance is just a road that takes you to the same place if you don't have a regulated device...
 

DaveP

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There's no way to tell if a mod is set on volts or watts as long as the two are set to produce the same power. There's also little difference between my 800hz Provari and my 33hz Sigelei Zmax V3. Heat is what we sense. It's the caloric result that produces the vape.

28ga wire takes longer to heat than 32ga wire. That's all about mass. The more mass, the longer it takes to heat up or cool down.

28ga wire is sturdier and you can wind more turns to achieve the same resistance as 32ga. More turns means more wick contact and that translates to more juice atomized. It's why so many people like micro coils. More and smaller turns contact a longer length of wicking at the same resistance.

OTOH, 32ga heats up more quickly and you don't have to wait a second or two before vaping. :)
 

tj99959

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    Your house is wired for two phase power. Now your stove & cloths dryer are far more efficient using both phases, (220v) but there is also a reason that the rest of your house is just one phase, (110v) and it's called "diminishing return". So while there are times that higher voltage has it's advantages, there are also times when it becomes a disadvantage. It's what you intend to do with the voltage that determines which is the proper voltage.

    No difference between your house and heating an atomizer coil. There are times when additional voltage is an advantage, and times when it is not.

    The coil in my KF @9 watts requires 3.5v, so even fresh battery voltage is to much for that coil.

    add:
    Now the reason that my atomizer is proper (for me) at 9 watts, and realisis is proper for her at 25.7 watts is because of the thermodynamics of the atomizers used.
     
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    realsis

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    Hi I use a high wattage regulated device. What I do is adjust my wattage to my personal "sweet spot" which changes with each flavor. Sometimes higher sometimes lower. According to the resistance of my build and my wattage my chip will adjust my volts accordingly to ohms law. A example is I'm vaping now at 25.7 watts with a .9 build. My chip does the math and adjusts my volts to 4.81 which pulls 5.34 amps.according to ohms law no matter my wattage the chip will adjust my volts. I have a new device pre ordered that does the same but is capable of a higher wattage. When my new device comes say I want to vape as high as it will go in wattage which will be 150 watts. Say I use a .9 build. The chip would then adjust my voltage to 11.62 volts which would pull 12.91 amps. I doubt I would go that high in wattage but who knows. This is why I love regulated wattage devices. I go to my desired wattage and don't worry about the volts because they are adjusted and calculated according to ohms law by my chip inside. My new device will be using the Yihi sx330 v3 chip to do the work. It's a ipv3 150.watt. my current unit is the ipv2 50. Which uses a older version of the same technology. I much perfer vaping with wattage and having the chip work out the voltage and change it accordingly. So in reality BOTH wattage AND voltage are being utilized in a regulated device. Not just wattage. So you are really changing BOTH wattage AND voltage according to your build and how high of wattage you are wanting to vape. I love the new higher wattage chip controlled devices. The yihi chip has been spot on with ohms law. It just does it instantly and no math is required on your part unless you want to work the formula yourself to ensure your chip is functioning as it should. So the regulated devices are utilizing BOTH volts and watts.
     

    peraspera

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    oHms law means that oHms, watts, volts and amps are mathematically interrelated. Change one value and the rest will all change. Doesn't seem to be any king in that.

    With a non-regulated device a lower oHm build will produce a warmer vape and a higher oHm build will produce a cooler vape.

    Both VV and VW devices boost and sometimes reduce power to adjust heat rather than having to change the oHms of the juice delivery device. VW does the oHms math for the user, VV doesn't. The specs of the watts, volts, amps and oHms limitations of the electronics determine how cool or warm a vape one can achieve with an specific regulated device.

    Many people find that large volume of vapor produced by higher power vaping is more satisfying than using lower power. Many people are more content with lower power vaping. The important thing is that each individual finds the type of vape that they find most satisfying and that they do so safely.
     

    DaveP

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    Hi I use a high wattage regulated device. What I do is adjust my wattage to my personal "sweet spot" which changes with each flavor. Sometimes higher sometimes lower. According to the resistance of my build and my wattage my chip will adjust my volts accordingly to ohms law. A example is I'm vaping now at 25.7 watts with a .9 build. My chip does the math and adjusts my volts to 4.81 which pulls 5.34 amps.according to ohms law no matter my wattage the chip will adjust my volts. I have a new device pre ordered that does the same but is capable of a higher wattage. When my new device comes say I want to vape as high as it will go in wattage which will be 150 watts. Say I use a .9 build. The chip would then adjust my voltage to 11.62 volts which would pull 12.91 amps. I doubt I would go that high in wattage but who knows. This is why I love regulated wattage devices. I go to my desired wattage and don't worry about the volts because they are adjusted and calculated according to ohms law by my chip inside. My new device will be using the Yihi sx330 v3 chip to do the work. It's a ipv3 150.watt. my current unit is the ipv2 50. Which uses a older version of the same technology. I much perfer vaping with wattage and having the chip work out the voltage and change it accordingly. So in reality BOTH wattage AND voltage are being utilized in a regulated device. Not just wattage. So you are really changing BOTH wattage AND voltage according to your build and how high of wattage you are wanting to vape. I love the new higher wattage chip controlled devices. The yihi chip has been spot on with ohms law. It just does it instantly and no math is required on your part unless you want to work the formula yourself to ensure your chip is functioning as it should. So the regulated devices are utilizing BOTH volts and watts.

    I'm interested in the atomizer you are using to get a flavorful vape at 25 watts (dripper?). Did you have to drill out the air holes to balance the heat production? Unless I keep my wick saturated I'm vaping very warm air at 10 watts on a Kayfun. It's a fairly major project to drill the air holes on a Kayfun.
     
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    realsis

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    Really?? What I have done is take dremmel tool and deepen the juice channels of my simple kayfun lite. It vapes at a higher wattage like a champ now! I also use a taifun, premethus,fogger 4.1 and Aqua at a higher wattages. The Aqua is a dual coil with four deep juice channels already. Premethus is top fed and I acruelly perfer bottom fed. If I'm not getting enough juice to my wicking media I've found slight adjustments to the juice channels work perfectly. Be careful not to get into the threading of the chimney when adjusting but it works like a charm!!
     

    zoiDman

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    Is the information I am locating old or am I crazy?

    ...

    I dunno?

    If a Person wants to make Watts with Higher Voltage and Higher Ohms, Great. And if they Want to make Watts with Lowe Voltages and Lower Ohms, that's Great Also.

    Because Watts Isn't the Only thing that Makes a Good Hit. Things like Air Flow and Wicking play Huge Roles in how a Hit Taste. Then Pile on that what People are Looking for Varies Widely.

    So are Volts King? Hard to say for All People.
     

    joesquid

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    OP,

    You're a bit off base here. Watts are a measurement of power and derived from resistance, current and voltage. A regulated mod in VW mode changes the applied voltage to achieve the desired wattage. In VV mode, you directly change the voltage which accomplishes the same thing, a change in wattage. Bottom line is it is the exact same thing. Only difference is VW mode would deliver the same power to the coil if you change coil resistance.

    That said, I think your beef is with using low resistance instead of higher voltage to achieve the same power (wattage).
     

    Auxx

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    Vaping at higher voltage is better. But only if you stack batteries. This will prolong battery life and will be less stressful on all components. People went to low ohms because they did not have good regulated devices at the time (stacking cells in mech is not a very smart move). And we still don't have many. IMHO proper regulated device should run on a quad cell LiPo battery pack. Like all modern power hungry toys do.
     

    DaveP

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    Really?? What I have done is take dremmel tool and deepen the juice channels of my simple kayfun lite. It vapes at a higher wattage like a champ now! I also use a taifun, premethus,fogger 4.1 and Aqua at a higher wattages. The Aqua is a dual coil with four deep juice channels already. Premethus is top fed and I acruelly perfer bottom fed. If I'm not getting enough juice to my wicking media I've found slight adjustments to the juice channels work perfectly. Be careful not to get into the threading of the chimney when adjusting but it works like a charm!!

    My Nautilus has much more air flow than my Kayfun, but the Kayfun took the place of the Nautilus during the "bad coil head" times last spring. BVC fixed the Nautilus and I vape it here and there, but I just got used to winding a coil whenever I took the notion and replacing cotton wicks when needed. Buying wire and organic cotton for the Kayfun is much cheaper in the long run than buying pre-made coils.

    I've vaped high watts and found it interesting and flavorful, but really don't need to buy a DNA30 device to do that. Kayfun on a 15 watt device gives me all I need in terms of a good vape. I certainly don't need to get into mech vaping. Last night I wound a 1.8 ohm 28ga coil and put it all back together with a 4.5v volt setting, only to find that I left a tiny leg cut too long and it contacted the chimney. I had used scissors to cut the wire instead of nail clippers and left a longer tail. Instead of a battery heat up or a blown fuse, I got an E1 code on my Provari.

    I have a Dremel tool (and a drill press), but I haven't decided I need to do the juice channel things yet. I vape 3mm coils turned at right angles where the wick runs over both sides and right down to the deck with vertical fibers doing the wicking. I can vape that heavily and not outrun the wick absorption rate.

    Volts ... Watts ... it's all still a relationship between voltage and a fixed resistance to obtain power. VW just does the voltage adjustment for you. Mine stays at 4.5v on the Provari and whatever wattage I choose on the Sigelei Zmax.

    Going higher would be about more air flow for me. Wicking is good enough for the 15 watts my Provari can produce.
     
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    Shootist

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    MOOT.
    And your Wattage would be adjusted automatically by raising or lowering the voltage on a Variable Voltage only device.
    MOOT.
    Same thing happens with a VV only device.
    MOOT.
    I find the debate kind of ridiculous. It's like debating Fahrenheit and Celsius. Although Fahrenheit is a finer scale.


    Hi I use a high wattage regulated device. What I do is adjust my wattage to my personal "sweet spot" which changes with each flavor. Sometimes higher sometimes lower. According to the resistance of my build and my wattage my chip will adjust my volts accordingly to ohms law. A example is I'm vaping now at 25.7 watts with a .9 build. My chip does the math and adjusts my volts to 4.81 which pulls 5.34 amps.according to ohms law no matter my wattage the chip will adjust my volts. I have a new device pre ordered that does the same but is capable of a higher wattage. When my new device comes say I want to vape as high as it will go in wattage which will be 150 watts. Say I use a .9 build. The chip would then adjust my voltage to 11.62 volts which would pull 12.91 amps. I doubt I would go that high in wattage but who knows. This is why I love regulated wattage devices. I go to my desired wattage and don't worry about the volts because they are adjusted and calculated according to ohms law by my chip inside. My new device will be using the Yihi sx330 v3 chip to do the work. It's a ipv3 150.watt. my current unit is the ipv2 50. Which uses a older version of the same technology. I much perfer vaping with wattage and having the chip work out the voltage and change it accordingly. So in reality BOTH wattage AND voltage are being utilized in a regulated device. Not just wattage. So you are really changing BOTH wattage AND voltage according to your build and how high of wattage you are wanting to vape. I love the new higher wattage chip controlled devices. The yihi chip has been spot on with ohms law. It just does it instantly and no math is required on your part unless you want to work the formula yourself to ensure your chip is functioning as it should. So the regulated devices are utilizing BOTH volts and watts.
     

    Baditude

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    As of late, I have been building and pushing higher resistance and the results have been, well, fantastic. Currently running 2ohm ~ 30w/7.7v, 8mg nic and it seems way more hardcore than any of the 1ohm or less builds.
    You are using a Kayfun RBA. They are designed to perform most optimally in the 1.0 - 2.0 ohm range. So its not surprising that you got better results in this resistance range with this particular class of RBA.

    Other classes of RBA's may perform better with sub-ohm builds or higher wattage vaping devices. Don't judge others by your limited experience.


    I completely understand the LR movement and sub-ohming for mech mods and people who didn't want to stack batteries. But now with all these regulated mods why is the belief that LR and watts are "Still king" when in reality they never were it has always been about the volts? Is it just a mass of the uninformed and or am I plain out wrong?
    Different strokes for different folks. It's as simple as that.

    People learn to tweak their personal setups for the way they like to vape. It's personal preferences. Whatever it takes to stay off the smokes.


    So I guess the point of this was a question asking is everyone else seeing the same thing regarding resistance of coil in high powered REGULATED devices? Am I just reading in the wrong sections? I just see a lot of people recommending LR builds, even sub-ohm builds to people who think they want more vapor to help quit smoking but the reality is they probably want more heat and just don't realize it. There is a difference between producing more vapor and trying to quit tobacco...
    worms.jpeg
     
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    DaveP

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    It's also about the coil size and its ability to draw juice from the wick and heat it to a vaporized state. Little coils mean little wicks, which means restricted juice flow to the heat source. Little coils work well in parallel dual coil arrangements.

    My best coil build in a Kayfun has been the 3mm coil mounted at a right angle to the plane of the coil screws. The wick is bigger and the ends of the wick can drop over the edge and face fiber ends down on the deck. It's the best arrangement I've found for wicking higher voltages.

    The build is here (with good pictures, thanks to Romelee who originally posted this).
    http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tutorials/503153-kayfun-3-1-microcoil-cotton-guide.html
     

    Dampmaskin

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    These are the three properties that best describe how an active coil vapes. (Disregarding wicking, airflow, and how the wires are twisted, bent, coiled or shaped into artful little figurines of birds nesting on the roof of a church tower at sunset).

    Voltage, current, resistance, gauge, material, and wire profile just provide many different ways to achieve those three most important properties of your coil.

    Well, that's what I believe today. Tomorrow may be a slightly different story.
     

    fat1

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    My written word always reads angry or hostile, I don't know why. Anyway, I was simply stating in all the devices I have tried and builds I have configured whether it was stacking batteries or VV or VW or what have you, we don't seem to like them until the volts climb. In a VW device this should be moot but I feel, personally, that even though the "math" on a .8 or 1.4 produces 25w or 30w the experience is always better when the Volts go over 6, preferable over 7 which requires 1.8-2.2ohm (or more).

    This is not just on the kfl+ but also on a few RBA clones as well. I will concede that for producing clouds, a cooler vape allows me to take in more and therefore produce more but as an every day all day build for me it is volts. I have no "beef" with anything other than perhaps the math because it just doesn't seem to be exact. Maybe that is common knowledge and I just take everything too literally. Maybe watts are more of a guide to put you in the ballpark.

    Did not intend to insinuate that anyone or anything is wrong, I vape Dekang for god's sake...so taste is obviously subjective ;)

    Anyway good conversation. Thanks for the replies
     
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